Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Tierce]

Look at the kill names. If a mafia shot was stopped, fine, but look at it--what are the odds it's the not-scum kill? I'm not *sure*, but I'm pretty damn certain.

I'm not saying impaled isn't a scum flavor, because I have no clue.

Which kills fail/succeed have nothing to do with their origin.

In fact, mattP seems an odd scum kill to me -- perhaps enomis was an odd vig kill.

But up until the start of this day I was comfortable with you being town. Now, you seem to know more about the kills and kill flavors than me. That's giving me paranoia hat. Also your posts about "why would I fail so much at my reads as scum" makes NO SENSE, as scum are trying to protect their buddies which makes their reads far more likely to fail than the average townsperson.

P-edit: lol okay

It's called common sense...? enomis was really damned obvious Town. If you want to argue that enomis and MattP are SK kills, sure, whatever, but I think it makes much more sense as enomis and MattP being mafia kills and Zach being a vig/possible SK kill. I'm not going to assume thing on "missing" kills when we don't even know if they are missing, so I make my assumptions based on how I read them/the majority of the players did. If enomis was vigged, someone needs a freaking reality check and has worse reads than I do.

And no, you can stop hinting that the way I'm saying my reads are failing is scummy. Go look at them. If it's bothering you, go look at them and point out how they bother you. Otherwise, I'm done acknowledging that nonsense.

(Wouldn't be surprised if Amrun was the ghost voter scum and was trying to frame hp. I've seen her do a similar move through Night actions. But I have to check her reactions because this is all guesswork atm, I'm not even home and I have yet to sleep.)

[Katsuki]

Real quick on plane.

Realized what's bothering me about amrun. She seems to be selectively applying scumminess.

Mostly a reminder. Have to turn off phone now.

It does seem to be what she is doing.

[Amrun]

Yeah, sk would make far more sense than vig -- but the distinction was arbitrary in this case. I meant I don't know who killed them, but you do, and that's disconcerting.

And your flailing on Antagon is THE reason i had you as town -- but not because it itself was town, because honestly it made you look quite scummy, but because I knew you were smart enough to not do that with your scumbuddy.

But you trying to swear this makes you town is nullifying that. First of all, it doesn't mean you're town. It means that you're unlikely to be scum WITH Antagon. With hammer shenanigans and an unaccounted for kill, that doesn't mean town, and even though you admitted this when pressed, you keep subtly changing wording to others to suggest otherwise.

But the more you insist that what you did makes you town the less sure I am that you're right. The only goal of scum is to look town, and what you're doing is you wouldn't do something with obvious scum motivation because it's too obvious. I had come to this conclusion privately, but the thing is is that the more you act like it's now ridiculous to lynch you the more it becomes clear is you think this activity makes you look town. And that means that you're completely cognizant of it and would have done it as either alignment.

I'm trying to determine how tinfoil hat this is, and I had decided "too much" until you rang major "inside information" alarm bells after day start.

[Tierce]

...Look who's trying to subtly change wording now.

How many times have you insisted by now that I KNOW who killed who, when I've made very clear this is a common sense analysis with the specific flips and how I think the three of them were being read in general.

What is more, being cognizant of my meta does not mean I can change it. Yes, I have been improving a bit. No, your theory that meta knowledge renders meta completely useless is silly. And me insisting that some things make me Town? How many, if any, Town games have you seen in which I did NOT do that when some smart aleck calls me scum?

I'm off to bed. Have fun with that tinfoil.

[Zdenek]

I'm on a picnic and would appreciate if nothing stupid was done before I have access to a computer again.

Town.

So ffrey is likely town. This is Tierce saying that she doesn't want anyone to hammer Antagon while she's away, and I don't see a scum buddy reacting to this by calling Tierce town.

[fferyllt]

That's a nice read and all, but it's something that I would also post as scum.

[Zdenek]

So who should we lynch today?

[fferyllt]

SoO or implosion is where I am leaning. I haven't finished my ISOs.

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

[Katsuki]

So who should we lynch today?

I dunno, you tell us.

[Zdenek]

SoO or implosion is where I am leaning. I haven't finished my ISOs.

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

I haven't read it yet.

So who should we lynch today?

I dunno, you tell us.

I'm working on it.

[Amrun]

Eh, I've decided Tierce is town. I'm letting the paranoia go. She does usually insist a lot of things make her town that don't at all.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XXXV

Tierce (2) ~ Oversoul, Katsuki

Not Voting:

fferyllt, implosion,

(Katsuki, Oversoul,)

Amrun, sword_of_omens, Syryana, Tammy, Tierce, Zdenek

--With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
--Deadline is 07:00 EDT on June 29, 2013.

(Only got 3 days left)

---Post 15 GET.

[Zdenek]

Rereading around that Antagon flip, I am strongly reading Tierce as scum:
- she defends the slot heavily.
- she asks Antagon to claim.
- I call her out on this, and suggest that she's probably a buddy.
- She says that at that moment Antagon was her favourite lynch.
- Then she hops back to Antagon town. For the garbage reason that his claim seemed legitimate.

I no longer think that this is an unlikely interaction for her to have with scum, since the flip-flop back to town at the end could have been something that I want to give a cute name name to - let's say reverse distancing.

[Zdenek]

Come now you can't be serious.

I remember you knowing full well what antagon flipped before the board crashes.

How does this comment not come with a Syryana vote?

[Zdenek]

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

[Zdenek]

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

I think it is alignment neutral.

I'm starting here:

Vote: Katsuki

[Tierce]

Zdenek, have you ever read me as NOT scum outside Author Mafia?

Because I have this cool list of games in which, as this account or a known alt or an hydra, you firmly called me scum and I was always Town.
And YES, I am undermining you here. You've had better reads than I so far in this game, but damn are you appallingly bad at reading me. Go read a scum game or two and then come back. If you want my best scum game, there's the very brief Micro 178. If you want a game in which I HAD to get someone lynched, you have Micro 175. Seriously, the meta is all there for you to read and you keep failing at it and argh.

I've explained that I voted for Antagon when I thought he might be Apocalyptical scum, and that before MattP had voted for him I thought they were Masons. Go look at those interactions before you attribute intent to actions. Then the claim looks like a decent Vi role. So what IS your problem if I believed him?

[Zdenek]

Tierce if there is such a big gap in your meta, why are you not instantly lynched when you are scum?
Because the fact that you aren't makes your argument here hollow.

[Oversoul]

I have has revelations but I'm busy right now.
I'll post tonight.

[Tierce]

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

Heh, not really? The person who forgot Instant Night was me, and believe me--I know that failing at remembering of a game mechanic doesn't make someone Town, I've been scum who forgot her team had Daytalk. When he says "discussing other stuff tonight" I think he was talking about tonight-the-25th, not Tonight-Night-2.

Katsuki-vote isn't a terrible thing, but I don't think it's from this. I think it's from him asking Zdenek about Tierce/Amrun, when Katsuki really doesn't give a damn about it or Zdenek's opinion of it, and knows that a Tierce/Zdenek/Amrun triangle can be explosive--it's subtly egging things on.


PEdit: Frankly I think I should be. I'm aware I downplay my scum game some, but it's not intentional--to me it really

is

quite obvious when I'm scum, and people praising my scum game (see s_o_o) only means that they are not familiar enough with me/a bit intimidated/I don't know? Go see what Empire, Tammy, Regfan have to say on my play elsewhere, they're quite good at reading me. And seriously, go look at those games. You have yet to see me as scum.

Because I never draw it anyway~

Also I dreamed that Tammy announced that her Townread on me was gone and damn that was annoying. :/ No dream-bonnet for you.

[Katsuki]

What triangle is this?

It seems like you're suggesting that I want to push all 3 of you as scum, which isn't the case at all.

[Tierce]

I'm not. I'm saying that you have no real interest in Tierce/Amrun or Zdenek's opinion of it, but you're inquiring about it anyway because it looks Town and because pushing Zdenek at me will make him see scum everywhere and cause pages upon pages of arguing that drowns the rest of the game out. I'm still musing how my iffy Amrun read comes into this if you flip scum.

Oh god I'm going to vote scum in this game stoppit this is

weird

--

VOTE: Katsuki

[sword_of_omens]

sorry all... on my phone, but work emergency had me run out to a customers today...
just heading back now... Will read and do a full update tomorrow..

[Katsuki]

I'm not. I'm saying that you have no real interest in Tierce/Amrun or Zdenek's opinion of it, but you're inquiring about it anyway because it looks Town and because pushing Zdenek at me will make him see scum everywhere and cause pages upon pages of arguing that drowns the rest of the game out. I'm still musing how my iffy Amrun read comes into this if you flip scum.

Oh god I'm going to vote scum in this game stoppit this is

weird

--

VOTE: Katsuki

I never asked for Zdenek's opinion for it in the first place.

And no, I've had you down as a weak scumread since half-way through D1. Yeah this post and vote of yours is pretty much BS.

[Tierce]

Wait, that was fferyllt, not Katsuki.

...So, Kats, how does mistaking who posted what make it bullshit? It was good reasoning if you had been the one talking about it, but you snapped at it just because you didn't do it instead of checking. You're not trying to figure me out in any way, just simply lobbing whatever you can at me.