Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

Jeeze, you guys are annoying. If I did anything in this game, you'd be crying scum about it.

Pieguy, I know I play even-level scum and odd-level town, so this might be weird for you.

Tempted to revoke my vote, but, nah. I think that zmon is scum. The fact you guys came out of the woodwork to criticize my vote makes me sure there's scum between the three of you, and that's a damn good start for this game.

[pieguyn]

Jeeze, you guys are annoying. If I did anything in this game, you'd be crying scum about it.

seriously, this argument? no thx

Tempted to revoke my vote, but, nah. I think that zmon is scum. The fact you guys came out of the woodwork to criticize my vote makes me sure there's scum between the three of you, and that's a damn good start for this game.

1. OMGUS
2. that's exactly what you did to zmon. you just came out of nowhere and was like "hey he's scum" right when someone else started eyeing him. you're not getting away with this :>

[pieguyn]

"hi guys" has been a running joke for a while.

sry I'm new here so I didn't know

[Varsoon]

Do you think maybe other people were eyeing him for a fucking reason? He looks scummy. People believe he's scum. I think he's scum too.

It's like you baked a shitload of cookies and I was fifth in line to get one and you accused me of only wanting a cookie because four other people did. Can't I just want a god damn cookie?

Similarly, my bad, I guess I should ALWAYS vote people that don't have any votes on them, because, clearly, DESPITE ARTICULATING MY VOTE, it's scummy to ever vote someone in such a way.

[Varsoon]

Also, it's hardly OMGUS to say that people who are voting me solely because I put a vote down are within my scum pool. Furthermore, their reasons for voting me reek of artifice and an attempt to condemn a town player for a contrived 'scummy' reason.

But it's cool that you're trying to discredit any move that I make.

Actually, it's not.

It really pisses me off.
Like, sincerely.
It's not cool.

[Varsoon]

So, in conclusion, your logic is terrible, your reasons for voting me are artificial, contrived, and scummy. All of the same 'points' you made about me joining the zmon wagon are equally applicable to BRO joining onto my wagon, pieguy. But he gets a free pass with no scrutiny? Why is that?

[pieguyn]

^ is that abrasive enough for you morph

[pieguyn]

So, in conclusion, your logic is terrible, your reasons for voting me are artificial, contrived, and scummy. All of the same 'points' you made about me joining the zmon wagon are equally applicable to BRO joining onto my wagon, pieguy. But he gets a free pass with no scrutiny? Why is that?

this one seems like attempting to redirect suspicion onto BROs

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, you're discrediting me at every turn, which is a typical disarming method used by scum. You're not interested in asking me questions or sussing me for any sort of information behind my vote, you're just condemning my slot and trying to suffocate me.

If anything pisses me off in this game, it's when players devalue what other players have to say.

What about my reasons for joining the zmon wagon look artificial to you, Pieguy?
BRO, your point about me being on a wagon at 4-in is interesting, but holds little merit. I join wagons across the board as scum and as town. As evidence for this, look at the vote-counts in Xenogears, and compare them to the ones in any of my recently finished town games. Why is it that you've made this argument against me, when it's false? Why are you trying to push my slot as scum so hard and use fake meta-evidence to back it up?

P-EDIT:
No, you shitlord, it's me questioning why you don't make the same arguments against every player, but cherrypick your scumhunting. If anything, it's critical of you more than BRO, because it shows a hiccup in coherency and logic in your play. FURTHERMORE, nice try to appeal to OTHER PLAYERS instead of immediately answer my question.
It's not rhetorical, so get to it.

[Varsoon]

Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

VOTE: Pieguyn

Good luck trying to get me to budge. I've got my hooks in you, and you've already dodged my questions once. Answer them now, or just give up, scum.

[thenewearth]

10/10 to mastin and Nacho. Would read again.

Just because it's mastin and nacho?

4/10. Not nearly as good as mastin's

And 4/10 because we haven't posted.

Uhm... mastin was first poster, 10/10

Then pieguy 4/10?

Wtf?

Either buddying, or scumz
Or both, even.

10/10 to mastin and Nacho. Would read again.

BRO! What's wrong with you? That was GiF.

>.<

OR

He's just being so biased right now >.>

VOTE: BRO

[Varsoon]

You also have a REALLY awkward preoccupation with communicating directly to Morph and BRO. I picked up on this when BRO voted me immediately after you, thinking it was a little awkward that you'd have so much back and forth with him in game and then he'd support your vote and try to build on your case for you, but what really tipped me off to this was when I asked you a question and your immediate post following that was "is that abrasive enough for you morph?"

Why are you so preoccupied with those two players, specifically?

Spoiler:

in fact I'm townreading him mostly cause of this

4/10. Not nearly as good as mastin's

Wait that's not a joke?

IMO, shows legitimate confusion. but as you said it's a really light towntell and could be faked

penguin_alien checking in here, antennae twitching, wings flapping in fewer than a dozen posts. mastin2, why vote for the player who is scummy versus the one who's probably scum?

is this a crumb or what

and what's your opinion on BROs?

what the hell kind of crossposting is this I don't even

@BROs, morph: so how do you like the chance that GIF/Nacho used his special moment in a scum game?

I would put that chance at roughly whatever chance there is that they'd role scum in any given game, minus the fact that I have a slight townread on them right now.

Please don't ruin this moment for me.
I worked hard on it and was waiting for quite a while to use it

then what do you think about that post? ^

also an open question for morph

I took that as tongue in cheek.

I actually don't know what this means LOL. can you explain

If that's not the question, you'll have to point it out to me.

I was referring to how he apparently "waited" to use that masterful case, which goes against your hypothesis that he would have used it immediately

@morph: I see

what's your opinion on Varsoon atm?

Is this a serious concern?

sry for confusion that was referring to GIF's post. I couldn't tell if pretty much anything people were saying in RVS was serious or not, and I didn't get the whole joke about the "hi guys".

VOTE: VarsoonVOTE: that jump was crazy awkward, and it's roughly where you jumped on the low-hanging fruit wagon last time as scum (5th on TD, 4th here)

if this is true I'd go so far as to say we've caught scum #1

I'm actually convinced that he runs a script on the thread that auto-posts to catch the top of page.

that'd be pretty amazing actually

when I mod games (there's none here yet don't look) I don't even try to catch the top of the page and instead just link all the votecounts in the first post cause that's too hard for me ;w;

"hi guys" has been a running joke for a while.

sry I'm new here so I didn't know

[thenewearth]

varsoon AtE this early.

varsoon town gaise

[pieguyn]

Furthermore, you're discrediting me at every turn, which is a typical disarming method used by scum. You're not interested in asking me questions or sussing me for any sort of information behind my vote, you're just condemning my slot and trying to suffocate me.

If anything pisses me off in this game, it's when players devalue what other players have to say.

okay here's a question
what makes you think I'm just trying to devalue what you say, instead of actually believing what you said is scummy? as it is, you've given no reason beyond me being scum, making this logic circular.

No, you shitlord, it's me questioning why you don't make the same arguments against every player, but cherrypick your scumhunting.

because I have a townread on BROs, while I had no such townread on you.

If anything, it's critical of you more than BRO, because it shows a hiccup in coherency and logic in your play.

so you saw your redirection wasn't going to work, and thus realized your only option was to try to defeat me directly?

FURTHERMORE, nice try to appeal to OTHER PLAYERS instead of immediately answer my question.
It's not rhetorical, so get to it.

excuse me for working together with other people...

zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

1. I have no completed games with you. how would I have any way of knowing you're an easy mislynch?
2. this implies my vote on you was intended towards a lynch. now let me requote this

^ opportunistic as fuck

vote: Varsoon

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

you claim that your vote on him didn't put the slot in danger of being lynched. so why do you assume my vote puts you in danger of being lynched?

Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

VOTE: Pieguyn

Good luck trying to get me to budge. I've got my hooks in you, and you've already dodged my questions once. Answer them now, or just give up, scum.

so now you're just going to discredit everything I've done? after accusing me of discrediting what you've done? no thx

You also have a REALLY awkward preoccupation with communicating directly to Morph and BRO. I picked up on this when BRO voted me immediately after you, thinking it was a little awkward that you'd have so much back and forth with him in game and then he'd support your vote and try to build on your case for you, but what really tipped me off to this was when I asked you a question and your immediate post following that was "is that abrasive enough for you morph?"

Why are you so preoccupied with those two players, specifically?

again, excuse me for working together with other people

let me know if I missed anything

[pieguyn]

speaking of asking questions, let me put your jump on zmon here for reference

I don't like zmon's level of activity coupled with his lack of serious content and I really don't like the moves made in 85 and 83.

I'm also scum-reading zmuffin, but that's because I don't believe the PGO claim and I always scum-read zmuffin. I was even scum-reading zmuffin in Xenogears. I had to constantly check to make sure he wasn't on my team that game.

Anyforwho, Sivir rework! Going to play League now.

Oh yeah forgot to do this:
VOTE: thezmon221

not a single question in there.

you jumped on him apparently because you thought he was scummy? why can't I do the same?

this shows a greater "hiccup in coherency and logic in your play" than anything I've done so far ~

[Varsoon]

There's a lot more there than AtE, TNE.

What do you think about the BRO/Pie/Morph connection I've made?
It's clear that you believe BRO/Pie to be an important link, but do you think that Morph is a part of that chain?
What do you think of BRO's vote on me versus Pieguy's?
Out of the two, why did you decide to vote BRO over Pie?

P-EDIT:
Oh, lord, let me destroy you in one sec, Pieguy.

[zMuffinMan]

Putting them in scum won't change their alignment, ergo scum.

keen insight

I can't tell if this post is serious or not, which in RVS seems like a bad thing

it was serious. i really do think psychlone's case was strong. so strong, even, that i'm not entirely sure it's possible for morph to argue against it. but i'm a fair girl, and i believe in giving them a chance to defend themselves, even if their lynch seems almost inevitable after that case.

pieguyn is an early town read for confusion over this

i was kind of meh about pieguy's apparent confusion here. i dunno how you're reading it as town.

I don't believe the PGO claim

what about the claim made you think it wasn't real?

[zMuffinMan]

town: GP, varsoon, psychlone, BRO, mastin
maybe TNE

i don't like how little morph has done anything that didn't feel completely empty in this game, especially considering the amount of posts from them.

i don't like the continued flippancy from thezmon.

i don't like pieguy being confused about stuff that isn't really confusing at all. and the attack on varsoon is pretty meh.

[zMuffinMan]

Moar RQS answers please. Thanks Mastin.

and i didn't like this post. way past the point where RQS even matters

[Varsoon]

okay here's a question
what makes you think I'm just trying to devalue what you say, instead of actually believing what you said is scummy? as it is, you've given no reason beyond me being scum, making this logic circular.

You don't answer my questions when I ask them, but defer to other players,
You've responded with replies like "seriously, this argument? no thx" and "OMGUS" instead of critically responding to the text I've laid forth,
Your response "this one seems like attempting to redirect suspicion onto BROs" is you trying to drive nails into my coffin rather than discuss the points I've brought against you.
Ultimately, none of your responses to me have engaged what I've had to say, but, rather, dismissed it and tried to divert more ire towards me.
I've given plenty of reasons for you being scum, which makes your last sentence here literally untrue.

because I have a townread on BROs, while I had no such townread on you.

So, your townread on BRO is so strong, 6 pages into the game, that the very case you make for me being scum (hoping onto a wagon while parroting the logic of others in a way that looks artificial) somehow can't be made against him? Also, according to your original post in this game, you -did- have a townread on me, which means that your townreads are subject to change. Why did your read on me change to scum, whereas your read on BRO, which should have followed the same logic, did not change?

so you saw your redirection wasn't going to work, and thus realized your only option was to try to defeat me directly?

This is exactly what I mean. You're not trying to engage what I have to say, you're trying to actively paint everything I do as scummy. That's misrepresentation in action. You're positing what you believe to be my motives as a fact, where they definitely aren't. It became clear that you were scummier than zmon and that my conviction about you being scum was grander than that of zmon, and so to even posit the above is absolutely inane.

excuse me for working together with other people...

Work with other people? You specifically responded to my queries by calling out Morph and saying "Look at how abrasive he is",

as if

making a cat-cry for Morph to put a vote on me, rather than ACTUALLY WORKING WITH ME ON MY CASE THAT I AM BUILDING ON YOU. You ignored me in order to directly speak to another player in a way that calls attention to a negative aspect of my play. That's not working with other people, it's wagon-mongering.

1. I have no completed games with you. how would I have any way of knowing you're an easy mislynch?
2. this implies my vote on you was intended towards a lynch. now let me requote this

I've been on the site long enough for you to easily look up my games, and there's plenty of other players in this game who would push for a quick mislynch of me, since they have in the past (or at least witnessed it happen easily). Even without that meta-knowledge, you chose me, which is a mistake. Now, let me get to your backpedaling...

you claim that your vote on him didn't put the slot in danger of being lynched. so why do you assume my vote puts you in danger of being lynched?

You're trying to appeal to the logic that I put forth in order despite the fact that just posts ago you said of that very same logic, "anyone on the wagon is responsible for anything that might happen as a result of wagoning him." and also made the (awkward) argument that taking a typical defense for joining a wagon is scummy. Your vote on me is a push for a swing-wagon, as it presents me in opposition to the growing zmon wagon and tries to make a case out of it. If you truly wanted me to elaborate on my intentions for voting zmon, you'd ask me about it, rather than damning me out of the gate.

so now you're just going to discredit everything I've done? after accusing me of discrediting what you've done? no thx

I'm not discrediting what you've done, I'm engaging it and exposing your gaps in logic, your questionable play, and the various hoops that you've tried to jump through in handling my case. I've been asking you questions and providing criticism to each of your moves, directly. If I was discrediting, I wouldn't be so thorough. I'd simply say you're wrong because you're scum, or OMGUS or 'no thx'. Instead, I'm meeting you point-by-point and refuting what you've brought to the game in your efforts to push my lynch.

again, excuse me for working together with other people

Except you're not. You've chosen a very select two people. I'm asking why those two, when there's been plenty of active players to 'work with'. 3/4 of your ISO is directly involved with those two. Why?

not a single question in there.

you jumped on him apparently because you thought he was scummy? why can't I do the same?

this shows a greater "hiccup in coherency and logic in your play" than anything I've done so far ~

Oho, so here you are being a bastard and trying to turn my words against me, despite making a huge stumble to get there.
First of all, I -voted- zmon, not zmuffin. If you read, I discredit my own read of zmuffin, because it's predicated on scum-reading him as a baseline.
Secondly, I -explained- why I put a vote on zmon. It wasn't simple gut, or 'thinking' he is 'scummy'. Your vote on me wasn't that either, so let's stop trying to change the facts.
Third, I think you'll find that I've put forth and facilitated some pretty thorough discussion in my last few posts, and while I didn't have any direct questions to zmon, I did present criticisms. Should I have spent some time hammering out some questions for him? Sure. Not that it's important, seeing as you jumped at the opportunity to push a wagon on me.

[Varsoon]

@zMuffin:

Didn't you make the same claim in a previous game? At the very least, it reminded me of someone's PGO claim in a prior game, so I didn't know if I should've read it as a joke/reference, or if it was an actual PGO claim. It also felt a little unwarranted if it wasn't a joke, so I decided that I wouldn't trust that it was truthful. Regardless, man, I think your avatar influences my baseline scum-read on you. Anyway, I guess my questions for you in return are,
Was your PGO claim a joke?
Have you ever made a PGO claim in a previous game?
Why did you claim PGO?

[Varsoon]

Pieguy:

Please don't respond to me point-by-point like our last exchange has gone. It's an exhausting format of back-and-forth, and I don't think it's a particularly exciting read. Please do answer my questions, though.

[zMuffinMan]

At the very least, it reminded me of someone's PGO claim in a prior game

you're imagining things

Have you ever made a PGO claim in a previous game?

no

[Varsoon]

@zMuffin:

Was your PGO claim a joke?
Why did you claim PGO?

Also, here's a new one:
Did you use that format for claiming PGO after seeing someone else do it to claim? Have you used that same format to claim a role in the past?

[zMuffinMan]

Did you use that format for claiming PGO after seeing someone else do it to claim?

no

Have you used that same format to claim a role in the past?

no