Newbie 1495 (DAY 4) - The One where Everyone got Murdered

[Xayzeck]

I dont mind at all, but I believe Jacob has to make the thread public, so unfortunately I cannot link it to you guys now.

I think town was pretty strong this game, and BBT played amazing. I just wish I could have kept up and maybe got Mala lynched, but eh, happy enough I made it to LyLo and avoiding F-16 lol

Hey Mala isn't this game kinda like Sandcastle :b

Great game all, thanks for modding Jacob!

[Malakittens]

Let me know if you want me to do major analysis. Although earliest I can do it is by Thursday (day off.)


Was like sandcastle yes, but a different in a lot of ways!

[Malakittens]

Enjoyed the game - following from afar...
Completely fooled.

Sorry for thinking you were scum Mala - but you played exactly the same as in the other game we just finished when you were scum! That's pretty impressive.
BBT you were amazing. Shame you support a crap team
Thanks for all the lessons Mora - including how to accidentally hammer someone...

There were some major differences

[Moratorium]

Let me know if you want me to do major analysis. Although earliest I can do it is by Thursday (day off.)


Was like sandcastle yes, but a different in a lot of ways!

I would.

[Shinobi]

I'd love some analysis, tbh.

[Xayzeck]

I'd love some analysis, tbh.

[Wolfy]

I'd love some analysis, tbh.

me too please.

[Shinobi]

I'm going to tell a story for no particular reason.

The site went down (obvs) and I freaked out because we were going into lylo and I was super pumped because I was going to reevaluate all my reads and do some game changing stuff.

And then the site came back up and I died.

Thanks scumteam.

[Malakittens]

Sorry! I'll try and get it done wed/Thursday. Just want time to sit down and do it ^.^

[Malakittens]

*sigh*

I had a day off tomorrow, but that's no more because I need to in and cover someone's shift. I'll try to get some of these reviews done right and then tackle the experienced players in the weekend. I'm sorry guys. My schedule is just asndjwnr. Three weeks with no day off. ._.

[Malakittens]

Wolfy:

Overall you had a solid play. Regardless of being killed early; I had a feeling that your NK Night 1 was based two different theories 1. on reactions to the whole setup response and scum was trying to aim for a doctor flip and 2. your overall play. You did well, but sometimes you are easily swayed due to certain discussions and points. (I noticed this during the Micro game we played also.) I would say try to stick to your guns if you really feel something is right. You also need to take into account that certain play styles will always conflict w/ yours. This isn't just in the newbie setup, but all through the site. Some players are quiet and others are loud, but depending on the 'level of activity' does not make one person town or scum. So don't really dismiss someone from being scum because they are being pro-town and vice versa. Don't get into this mindset as activity outside (road to rome) has more experienced players and scum have a tendency to know how to manipulate town-tells that people look for and dodge scum tells. So overall what I'm really saying is try to keep an open mind to certain things, but not open enough where you are swayed to move your vote all over the place.

[Malakittens]

BBT :

I'm very impressed at the level of play out of you especially for a first time scum player.

A few weakness, that could be worked on to make you become a really great player, of either alignment,:

There was a few filler posts, which I let go because we are in the newbie section of the site so newbie doing filler posts are okay. What I mean by filler is trying to act like you are adding to discussion, but really fluff. Posts such as asking for 'reads' without contributing your own first. Shin went after you earlier in Day 1 for what I would call a filler post. Other filler post could be telling the mod to prod people or asking for VC's.

I know I pointed this out during day 1, but your eagerly over-sheeping of certain reads. Looked more like you were trying to blend in and go with the majority rather than thinking for yourself.

The major thing that gained your vote during LyLo was parts of the claim. Although, I know the whole doc not protecting wasn't

totally

your fault, but if you are planning on fake claiming in the future. I would ask advice from your scum-partner

for a well thought out claim that wouldn't have holes in it that could be easily poked at. Although, don't go super overboard so it looks like it was pre-empt. The whole self-protect, had you talked to Xayz possibly could have been avoided.

In addition to that is timing -- timing is very, very important especially in what phrase you are currently in. You should have CC'd immediately (especially in LyLo) rather than waiting before doing so and "expressing" doubt about Mora's claim. I know you were fake claiming, but looking back at the non-CC immediately looks like expressions of doubt especially when you are in LyLo and you know that the other person was conf-scum when they opened with 'I'm the ___'.

[Wolfy]

Thanks for the feedback Mala - much appreciated.
I know I'm too easily swayed and I'm way too easily influenced by playstyle and tone. They shout at me and I get over defensive. I'm just a sensitive soul.
As for the micro I knew wasn't really ready for it but I'd had my two (rather short) newbie games. (that's where the defensiveness really came out)
Doing a newbie as SE now which is fun.
Thanks again.

[Malakittens]

Thanks for the feedback Mala - much appreciated.
I know I'm too easily swayed and I'm way too easily influenced by playstyle and tone. They shout at me and I get over defensive. I'm just a sensitive soul.
As for the micro I knew wasn't really ready for it but I'd had my two (rather short) newbie games. (that's where the defensiveness really came out)
Doing a newbie as SE now which is fun.
Thanks again.

Sorry, I'm not the the greatest at giving out feedback. yours was a little bit harder than most because you died pretty damn early. :\

I know how you feel about the shouting, I'm the same way actually.

[Malakittens]

Xay:

Hiiiiiiiii buddeh~

So the first thing is watching the wording of your posts. I know I'm probably nitpicking which isn't really that normal for me, but the post I went after you for early Day 1 reaaaaaaaalllly came out to me as a scum slip and then your reaction afterwards.

As I have very limited experience with playing with you; I'm not sure if the classic white knight title actually works for you. The defense of players early game came off scummy as hell, no offense lol. Especially when meta is involved and you barely know that said person.

Also the flow on your reads, I'd work on that. You kept your options open a lot especially when you townread someone you were still willing to lynch them. I'm not sure if that's common in your town games, but it doesn't come across as town to do something similar to that approach.

Also one thing I noticed in common between the two newbies that you were scum in was how you defended yourself, but didn't really push who you thought was scum. I think had you actually tried pushing me harder you could have gotten me lynched instead of you in that 5-player LyLo.

Also, try and interact with your scum partners too. There was a distinct lack in regards to that also.

(I'm not sure if anything of this helps.)

I'm probably going to finish off {Mora, Shin} after work tomorrow. I want to touch up on regfan's play because if someone is EVER handed an IC (innocent child) or anything of that aspect such as a cleared result via cop that's the way you want to play it.

[Xayzeck]

So the first thing is watching the wording of your posts. I know I'm probably nitpicking which isn't really that normal for me, but the post I went after you for early Day 1 reaaaaaaaalllly came out to me as a scum slip and then your reaction afterwards.

You know, I think you'll find this interesting.

Around this time I was playing with you in Sandcastle, so I knew what your towngame was like. So when I said I knew your towngame, I was referring to Sandcastle mostly. I did follow that game Uite was doing with LionXx and Yuriko, but Sandcastle was really the one. And boy I thought I slipped up big time and was afraid you would catch on to it in Sandcastle

So that got me reeeeaaally panicking x]

Thanks for the comments, I'll work on it <3

[Malakittens]

To be fair. It did made me think you were scum in Sand, but I tried to not mix the feelings between games because it wasnt fair for everyone so I separated it from game to game, but the min you flipped scum there your ISOs were similar >_<

And welcome <3 hopefully it will help some

[Shinobi]

Shin went after you earlier in Day 1 for what I would call a filler post.

Hey, I caught on.

[Malakittens]

>:

Let's see if I can finish this tonight~

[Malakittens]

Shin:

I might be a bit biased because to me you town-told (accidently) thanks to an incredibly stupid mistake of my own. Due to that I kinda just read you as strong town for the remainder of game.

Anyways ignoring the above I will do my best to avoid my biased-read and try and to give you feedback.

I liked your style early Day 1; The pressure, the votes were placed well.

I'm actually quite curious. You played with scum-Xay and you said multiple times that you forgot about him that game and he was doing something similar this game. Why didn't you go after him that hard? You didn't even try to engage him in regards to that which is making me curious about that. I know my lack of interactions with Xay, was bad myself, but that's because I was in a tunnel this game.

I liked #349. To be fair; I think setup spec hurts town more than it helps it. It gives scum tools to read reactions based on how people respond to the topic (hence wolfy NK), but then again when you are in a newbie area the responses gets a bit fishy because you don't know how newbies would react to discussions like this.

About the topic of you saying I town-told. Don't hold that tell tightly when playing. Experienced scum knows how to manipulate that tell. Just watch how that 'tell' is played before dismissing a scum read on a player as fast as you did. I know this is your first time playing with me, but if you watch how I post you could see how transparent my scum game IS from my town game. I have been known to place a list, regardless of alignment, before I'm lynched. Sometimes it's red herrings and sometimes it's genuine when I'm scum. There are also games, regardless of alignment, where I don't even give a shit to give a list. It depends on how I feel in terms of my reads and if I'm confident if they are right and how badly I want them listened too.

(Sorry about all the self meta there, but it's somewhat relevant.^)

Although, your 180 looking back on it doesn't look something that scum would do. You explained it well and it was genuine. You defended me hardcore when at a time as scum you had two major-town wagons near deadline and there wasn't a need to do in terms of defending. Scum-you could have easily just let one of Eno/I go down and it wouldn't have hurt you, but you stuck your neck out as town.

So yeah, I don't really have any criticisms for your play, besides just be careful with how fast you give someone a read based on 'town tells'. They aren't always reliable such as scum tells and meta tells aren't 100% reliable either.

[Shinobi]

I'm actually quite curious. You played with scum-Xay and you said multiple times that you forgot about him that game and he was doing something similar this game. Why didn't you go after him that hard? You didn't even try to engage him in regards to that which is making me curious about that. I know my lack of interactions with Xay, was bad myself, but that's because I was in a tunnel this game.

Xay himself actually touched on this a bit. As regfan and others have pointed out, I'm not exactly what you would call a "new player;" I've been playing for a while and I've got a ton of experience on EpicMafia. The issue is that, without experience with the forum setup, there's going to be stuff that I miss out on since I play mostly on analyzing the flow of conversation and looking for differences in behavior. The issue with reading Xayzeck was that I couldn't tell if he was scum again or if that's how he played. Since I didn't have any experience with his town game, I just filed him under "town" and left him alone for the most part, since I just didn't detect any incongruencies between this game and the last.

It's an aspect of my play I came here to improve, and I definitely got that out of the deal by coming here.

Now, on the flip side, it means I can read someone as town without them even doing all that much. Mora and BBT both picked up on it: every time I tried voting you, I knew I didn't even believe the reasons you were being voted, even though I never actually bothered reading your meta or looking at the circumstances of why people were scumreading you. Mora knew my votes were contrived and scumread me for it.

By the time you were posting your list, I had you filed under "bad lynch" far beforehand. I was willing to take almost any excuse to get you out of there.

Thank you for the analysis, btw. Much appreciated. Hope to see all of you in future games.

[Mina]

Goodbye.