Open 208 - Fire & Ice Mafia >Over!<

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.8

Crazy (2)

- Deer, pwnman

ICEninja (2)

- Sanhora, DTMaster

SaintKerrigan (2)

- XScorpion

DTMaster (2)

- DarkLightA

pwnman (1)

- Crazy

Mindgamer (1)

- SaintKerrigan

XScorpion (1)

- ICEninja

Scott Brosius (1)

- Mindgamer

Not Voting (2)

- Nachomamma8, Scott Brosius

With twelve players alive, seven votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Thursday March 18 at 16:50 UTC.

[Nachomamma8]

@Mindgamer: Don't worry. I have the exact same habit. It's why I replace into games so much

@Everyone else who was wondering about how Mindgamer's first post was Fire Mafia slipup: Bussing.

Now, for my thoughts of the game...

What's happening, people? Why are we going on a lurker hunt when we have a SCUMMY LURKER right before our eyes?

I didn't think pwnman was scum until he started responding to everything so seriously...@Mindgamer: Don't worry. I have the exact same habit. It's why I replace into games so much

@Everyone else who was wondering about how Mindgamer's first post was Fire Mafia slipup: Bussing.

Now, for my thoughts of the game...

What's happening, people? Why are we going on a lurker hunt when we have a SCUMMY LURKER right before our eyes?

I didn't think pwnman was scum until he started responding to everything so seriously... His vote on XScorpion is horrible because it's just a little bit of pre-emptive OMGUS, and the vote on Crazy isn't much better; he's vote hopping so early in the game, and for little reason.

Vote: pwnman

Ice, your attack against XScorpion makes you either misguided or scum. XScorp is town. XScorp is town because he is the only person (other than ModNik) who is not completely serious right now, and there's a point for doing what everyone else isn't. I don't understand your comment when you said "the entire town is lurking" when, in reality, it was only a few people.

Oooh, and Mingamer? As a lurker, never push a lurker lynch. Hypocrisy is a strong scumtell.

[Deer]

I don't like mindgamer's vote. one bit.

unvote, vote: mindgamer

[Nachomamma8]

Voting without a real explanation is consistently a bad idea.

[Deer]

Well, I find it very hypocritical, and Scott's actions were not worthy of a vote in the first place. A lurker is usually an easy target for a scum, from what I've seen, and mindgamer seems to be jumping on the opportunity to get something started on him, while not wanting to get involved in the pwnman/SK business.

[Nachomamma8]

Deer, why not go after people who haven't commented on the pwnman situation at all (namely, Sanhora?). Mindgamer's at least shown an opinion.

[Deer]

Sanhora has been lurking the entire game - I don't necessarily find that a scumtell. I'm annoyed by it, but not to the point where I want to lynch said lurker. I would like them to talk, though.

[ICEninja]

Voting without a real explanation is consistently a bad idea.

I voted XScorpion for doing exactly this. Why are you criticizing me for voting someone who has repeatedly done something that is consistently a bad idea?

I do agree with your vote on pwnman, though, he is probably my second target. I really want to see XScorpion contribute something to this game, so I really want to leave my vote where it is for the moment. Once my concerns about XScorpion are alleviated then I can move on to either pwnman or Mindgamer. If XScorpion continues to do foolish things in the name of not taking this game seriously, then I will hold my vote.

I do not find jokes and making light of the game inherently scummy. I find throwing out random votes and contributing absolutely nothing to the game scummy.

It is more than "just a few people" that are lurking. You call pwnman a lurker when others post even less than him. I'd say it is about 5 people lurking, which, when exaggerated, is the whole freaking town. Or about 5 people more than it should be, at least.

I'm looking at you, Sanhora with your 3 posts. If you aren't going to play, then replace out.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, but that means you're attacking one of many lurkers, which is non-productive. If you do that, the town will be divided on which lurker to lynch, which is always a bad thing and leaves us open to pure and simple manipulation.

Try reading pwn in ISO and taking note of his reactions. There's an odd one out in this group, and for right now, it isn't XScorpion.

[SaintKerrigan]

V/LA from now until Friday.

[DarkLightA]

unvote

I have to think this through.

[Scott Brosius]

ISO Mindgamer

9- Likes RVS
48- Basically parrots my post about pwn being VI
79- Finds the pwn BW "interesting"
115- Votes for Crazy for the reason on "bandwagon go!"
147- Perhaps some content?!

So I fail to see how you can attempt to call me out for lack of participation when you have barely done so yourself. Your 2 non-RVS votes have lacked reason.

Interesting. Bandwagoning is pro-town imo, so I don't see what's your point here. Lurking is... sucky. I agree. But is that enough to rise 'very high' in one's scumlist? Why don't the other lurkers rise very high in your scumlist then? To me it seems like you are just picking on a bad poster. Scumpoints for you.

Pretty hypocritical since apparently I'm worthy of a vote yet you say lurking is not enough to rise someone to very high on one's scumlist.

[Nachomamma8]

Scott, a comment on anything that wasn't an attack on you?

[DTMaster]

@IceNinja
1. I was calling out people who took stances, but did nothing about it via Pwnman/Crazy/SK debate. In my earlier post, people outlined "I disiked this wagon", but did not do anything about this.

Saying that this case was in the early stages, then lecturing me about how my case on Crazy was unfounded due to pwn's scumminess is very

very contradicatory

Either you disapprove of my Crazy attack because the wagon on pwnman was founded, or you found the wagon suspicious and people needed to reread what happened given that it was so early.

ITT

IceNinja is bactracking

2. Lol, and people are sheep that would follow me everywhere. Riiight. You are extremely unrealstic saying that I would cause a quick lynch in my case. If anything, if a quick lynch on crazy occured

we would be analyzing the wagon itself, which would narrow down the scum pool based on how Crazy flipped

Town in their right minds would not quick lynch, and its more likely scum on said wagon would because it cuts discussion, the bread and butter for townies.

Quick lynches are bad, but are amazing to analyze from.

3. Hahah,

His case had much more merit at that point.

So you called me scummy for being right in the context of my case? And that Crazy case was valid given that:

when I made it, it was bloody valid?

Oh my god, Iceninja is trying to buddy me and discredit me at the same time. He just said my case was valid

and that after when I switched my wagon when I called Crazy townie, I'm still on a Crazy wagon

It's like saying:
You were right, but now you are wrong.

After I've concluded:
Hm I believe this is right, but now I see that I was mistaken about my initial read.

^^^ Read once in a while.

4. However, your case on ScorpionX is correct. Meta evidence says: he's lurking. Potentially, you can say he's active lurking because his last post was a vote to join in on a wagon.

No content + bandwagon vote + "dissapearance"

@SK
Pwnman's case is getting more merit due to the posts he's done and how he hides behind my attacks. That is scummy in itself, and is a better tell then Crazy's case.

If pwnman was townie, he would scum hunt and defend himself. Everything screams self presevation first, rather then actively finding scum.

[Nachomamma8]

If pwnman was townie, he would scum hunt and defend himself. Everything screams self presevation first, rather then actively finding scum.

You're wrong right here. This game is a lurker's paradise right now. So, if this statement is true, ALL of the lurkers are scum.

[XScorpion]

Who besides me is lurking right now? Apparently a lot of people, but who wants to make a list?

[ICEninja]

DT you have some very large logic holes in your case against me. I would like to point them out.

Saying that this case was in the early stages, then lecturing me about how my case on Crazy was unfounded due to pwn's scumminess is very very contradicatory

I never said that your case on Crazy was unfounded due to pwnman's scumminess. This is either your own very mislead interpretation of my points against you or twisting of my words to suit your case. I found pwnman moderately scummy, but never felt that the wagon on him was a good thing. The problem where your case was unfounded was because you didn't understand Crazy's case. You still seem to not because your attacks are still so riddled with confusing and misinterpretation that are still being carried through. If it continues, it is going to be quite damaging to the town.

Town in their right minds would not quick lynch, and its more likely scum on said wagon would because it cuts discussion, the bread and butter for townies.

Regardless, you seemed like you wanted the quick lynch. You were pushing for more votes on someone, which is essentially asking the town for a lynch. Would you have gone back and said "well I asked for votes not a lynch!!!" had a quick lynch on pwnman happened?

So you called me scummy for being right in the context of my case? And that Crazy case was valid given that: when I made it, it was bloody valid?

Once again you misinterpreted what I said. The early stage of your case against Crazy was largely based off of your misunderstanding of Crazy's case against pwnman. This was not valid. After a while you started switching your attack on Crazy to primarily be about how he tunneled (and continues to do so) on pwnman. I agree with you about this, so therefore your case became more valid once you switched from a case based off of your own misunderstanding to a point I felt was true.

It's like saying:
You were right, but now you are wrong.

No, it is like saying you were initially stupid, but then you changed your attack to reasons that make sense.

The hardcore lurker is Sanhora, you're active lurking, Scott hasn't posted much content, Mindgamer is hardcore lurking, and Darklight seems to be lurking to a small extent.

[ICEninja]

Oh yes and add pwnman to the list of people lurking.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.9

ICEninja (2)

- Sanhora, DTMaster

pwnman (2)

- Crazy, Nachomamma8

Mindgamer (2)

- SaintKerrigan, Deer

SaintKerrigan (1)

- XScorpion

Crazy (1)

- pwnman

XScorpion (1)

- ICEninja

Scott Brosius (1)

- Mindgamer

Not Voting (2)

- Scott Brosius, DarkLightA

With twelve players alive, seven votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Thursday March 18 at 16:50 UTC.

SaintKerrigan is V/LA for one day.

[DarkLightA]

Vote: XScorpion

....Seriously dude??

[DTMaster]

Regardless, you seemed like you wanted the quick lynch. You were pushing for more votes on someone, which is essentially asking the town for a lynch. Would you have gone back and said "well I asked for votes not a lynch!!!" had a quick lynch on pwnman happened?

Asking for pressure votes is not asking for quicklynching. I'm trusting that the town will prevent a quick lynch from happening. It takes 7 people to lynch right now, and at least there will be 3 townies on said wagon if it came to fruit.

Quick lynch =/= wanting pressure. People under pressure generates

useful information to analyze

.

You get to analyze: How they defend, who they think is scummy, and why. You get to see their reasoning, and you can determine if it makes sense. Therefore you can find out if someone is scummy or not.

I found pwnman moderately scummy, but never felt that the wagon on him was a good thing. The problem where your case was unfounded was because you didn't understand Crazy's case. You still seem to not because your attacks are still so riddled with confusing and misinterpretation that are still being carried through.

If it continues, it is going to be quite damaging to the town.

Hm? Hold on, did you just admit that I'm part of the town? See the above part.
What happened to the inital suspicion of Scum-DTM. I know you said: I've done lots of forceful scumhunting, but that is quite a leap of logic to say my case was damaging to the town.

It means that you are pro-pwnman lynch, and pro-Crazy case, but did not do it. If you take this quote:

I found pwnman moderately scummy, but never felt that the wagon on him was a good thing.

And the original reasoning to the wagon

Perhaps not, but the vote against him is based off a vote placed in the RVS, or more specifically, an explanation of said vote.

Now at the same time, I don't actually get the feeling that pwnman's vote was random, nor do I feel that he explained his vote very well. I really don't like his style of 1 liners all over the place, as it seems like he's contributing but his posts don't actually say anything.

There is absolutely potential for there to be scum here. I'm not going to join the bandwagon at this time, however, as I would prefer pwnman to actually lay out his thought process on why he felt that first post made Mindgamer look scummy, and why he felt it was worth a vote.

If he is unable to do this, then yes he looks very scummy indeed and I may be placing my vote as well.

As a clarification, the fact that Kerrigan just recently understood Mindgamer's little joke (I was hoping my response to the vote would have prevented this but apprently not) is why I dislike people intentionally saying stupidly obvious wrong things, because there's always potential for confusion.

As a further clarification, the way people were using it, i thought a VI was a role, and looked extensively through the role database without success. I finally found the article and realize that it is just a bad townie that gets himself lynched.

I don't see a lot of effort in pressing the pwnman issue. All I see is focus on critiszing DTM for attacking Crazy. Iceman

Why didn't you press harder on pwnman given the above quote? Also if you felt that scum could have been on the wagon against pwnman, why haven't you done anything until I've raised conerns about said wagon?

The timing of the Xscoprion vote is justifiable, but the lack of scum hunting in between is noted.

@Nacho
Pwnman hasn't posted for a while either, which also hurts him. We have, 5 heavy lurkers right now.

@Darklight
You said you were thinking, what were your conclusions of your thoughts?

@My Summary
Iceninja is definaltly not the lynch for today. However Scorpion just admitted to lurking lol. However Scott's reply to mindgamer also implies he is actively lurking.

Pretty hypocritical since apparently I'm worthy of a vote yet you say lurking is not enough to rise someone to very high on one's scumlist

This bugs me.

Unvote

Vote Xscorpion

I'll start here

[Nikanor]

Sanhora has been prodded.

[ICEninja]

You get to analyze: How they defend, who they think is scummy, and why. You get to see their reasoning, and you can determine if it makes sense. Therefore you can find out if someone is scummy or not.

OK, I will concede the point. There was minimal risk of a quick lynch.

Hm? Hold on, did you just admit that I'm part of the town? See the above part.

No, I said damaging to the town, not town. Damaging to the town makes you anti-town, which sometimes means scummy, sometimes not.

Why didn't you press harder on pwnman given the above quote? Also if you felt that scum could have been on the wagon against pwnman, why haven't you done anything until I've raised conerns about said wagon?

There were, I believe, 4 votes on pwnman at the time. It was around the time when I was going to apply some pressure to him that you blasted in to the game and my attention fell on you. I guess you can say 8 consecutive posts of rambling, followed by a lot of bolded and colored text riddled with confusion distracted me.

Also, I find it interesting that you've dodged my point about you being confused about Crazy's case. About 3 times, I might add. However, you seem to be shaping up in your scum hunting and your understanding of the game so as I've stated earlier, my suspicion of you has dropped.

I believe XScorpion is actively lurking, throwing down useless posts that just seem to add to his post count without actually saying anything. Out of 7 posts made by XScorpion, only 1 or 2 is even relevant to the game at all. I'm not counting RVS. It is one thing to throw your vote all over the place if you're like DT and explaining it. XScorpion is still holding a vote for Kerrigan with literally no justification for it. I just can't see how this guy is town, and even if he is town, he's simply going to hurt us down the line.

My vote stands.

Mod, if Sanhora comes back with a comment about catching up or w/e and doesn't follow through with it in a day or 2, can you look for a replacement? 3 posts at 7 pages in the game is not acceptable.

[DTMaster]

@Iceninja

How is a case on Crazy and a defence of pwnman damaging to the town again? You seem to say that my case on Crazy was anti-town to make.

Also, I find it interesting that you've dodged my point about you being confused about Crazy's case. About 3 times, I might add. However, you seem to be shaping up in your scum hunting and your understanding of the game so as I've stated earlier, my suspicion of you has dropped.

Because i'm not confused about it. The original case was cut and dry. I'm was pointing things people are over looking in regards to the pwnman case. Ie. that people were not analyzing the pwnman wagon, they did not notice SK's remarks about mindgamer and we have very, very, lurky town.

I believe XScorpion is actively lurking, throwing down useless posts that just seem to add to his post count without actually saying anything. Out of 7 posts made by XScorpion, only 1 or 2 is even relevant to the game at all. I'm not counting RVS. It is one thing to throw your vote all over the place if you're like DT and explaining it. XScorpion is still holding a vote for Kerrigan with literally no justification for it. I just can't see how this guy is town, and even if he is town, he's simply going to hurt us down the line.

I agree here. I'll give you an XScorpion meta where I modded for him.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12859

Something is off with his recent posts. Simillar style, but something is off. I'll need to do a reread on this - Self note.

[XScorpion]

I don't have a meta. Trust me.
I'm completely unpredictable. So don't even bother
I never play two games the same way.

I'm now going to OMGUS vote in an attempt to draw more attention and get myself lynched because that's what I do.

unvote
Vote: DarkLightA

Be rational. Get real

NO U