Mini 1454 - GAME OVER

[Rob14]

Vote Count #1.6:

notscience:

jon_h61, Nobody Special, JuanJuan (3)

bubbajack8:

Aj The Epic, fuzzybutternut (2)

HookerPunch:

Amrun, marcmann2 (2)

fuzzybutternut:

notscience, JKMatthews (2)

pitoli:

HookerPunch (1)

Amrun:

bubbajack8 (1)

Not Voting:

pitoli, AngelInFreezer

With 13 alive, it takes 7 players to reach a lynch.

V/LA:

None

Deadline:

(expired on 2013-06-10 22:45:00)

[fuzzybutternut]

DAMN IT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MY SPOT.

[fuzzybutternut]

/ragequit

[Aj The Epic]

@amrun, you've got NS and myself, at least.

Yes. there was a lot of spam in bubba's wall and less actual amount of analysis/information/anything useful. Some spam is good to make it readable, too much and you fail to get a point across.

Fuzzy, that was a new one "Stop saying I'm town" and all... Unintentional wifom is generally lynchable by me, as it is scum trying to sarcastically kid their way out of a funk.

[fuzzybutternut]

*nods*

[Amrun]

Aj, shouldn't your vote logicallybe on fuzzy? Why isn't it?

Angel, pitoli, why aren't you voting?

[fuzzybutternut]

also, ^This.

why you no vote me AJ?

[AngelInFreezer]

I don't have anyone I want to vote after my unvote tbh.

My vote will probably end up on either HP or notscience, but I would like to hear more from them first.

-G

[Aj The Epic]

I do actually quite like my Bubbajack vote. Fuzzy, you have a tendency to constantly do this, tempt people to vote for you, so I generally make my own policy not to go after you until you finally decide to get serious. You'll do so by day 2, you're predictable like that.

[fuzzybutternut]

AJ, i'm not sure I can get any more serious than I am now, tbf.

[Amrun]

Angel, what do you think facilititates hearing more from people? Just sitting there wishing and praying, or doing something about it?

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

[bubbajack8]

i think

i think i accidentally walked into a newbie game

What the hell is wrong with you? You think I'm incompetent. I show I'm not. You say I shouldn't be voted if I'm incompetent, yet you still vote me. AND NOW you say this is a NEWBIE game? Implying we are all noobs? Instead of bouncing around pointless propaganda, and pissing and moaning, actually contribute.

Are you pushing a policy lynch? Reals?

He kind of is.

Are you pushing a policy lynch? Reals?

.-. policy lynch?

If thats eliminate a nuisance so they can stop fogging up my reads then yes. I find said nuisances antitown, so unless someone trips my scumdar I stay here.

So you totally ignored my post that explained how he could be town? That's pretty anti town in my opinion.

VOTE: notscience

I never said it was because i couldnt read him. I said it was because his playstyle comes off as scummy to me, and it hinders my scumhunting by distraction. I like where my vote is atm.

Frankly, idc if people are experts on him. He distracts me, and that is an issue to me.

Reads will have to come tomorrow, its hard to type it out on my phone.

What's it matter if he "distracts you". Don't listen to what he says, it's better then lynching a TOWN player who you UNDERSTAND is town. BUT OH NO! He's a distraction.

Aj, shouldn't your vote logicallybe on fuzzy? Why isn't it?

Angel, pitoli, why aren't you voting?

Have you not noticed pit isn't here? What's wrong with Angel not voting? Did you not read Aj's post here?

Fuzzy is always like this. The unfortunate part is people still consider that to be a scum tell. It's null at best. It's one of the two ends of the reaction test. You either react, or you don't and Fuzzy instigates in his reaction. I advised him in a game a while back (As masons) not to do that and he got nk'd.

I do actually quite like my Bubbajack vote. Fuzzy, you have a tendency to constantly do this, tempt people to vote for you, so I generally make my own policy not to go after you until you finally decide to get serious. You'll do so by day 2, you're predictable like that.

And he has this tendacy as what role?

Angel, what do you think facilititates hearing more from people? Just sitting there wishing and praying, or doing something about it?

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

You guys realize it's past midnight where I am and some people can't be on at all hours. The only reason I'm on so late is because I watched a movie. There's no need to rush into a lynch Amrun, and quite frankly I don't like how you are trying to.

(See asking why Aj wasn't voting fuzzy. and why Angel isn't voting either)

Let people actually read. Let them contribute. Don't try to rush things. If you want a rushed game wait for a Marathon day.

[Amrun]

Dear Jesus. Please learn how to read.

I never said you shouldn't be voted if you're incompetent, and for the record, you are not doing a very bang up job of proving you are not. And quite frankly, yes, I feel as if I am playing in a newbie game without the benefit of being the IC.

Yes, I noticed pit isn't here, but attempting to engage him is the only way to try and get him to post. If he flakes, then he flakes, and we'll start anew with his replacement.

And as for your response to post 160, I really can't express to you how much this shows how noob you are when it comes to MS play.

I was not at all advocating a lynch, and if you put your brain cells to remember how I criticized another player for attempting to do that not 2 pages ago, you might have a better chance of comprehending that.

Contribution doesn't happen in a vacuum. Votes are the most important tools that townies can EVER, ever have, regardless of any power roles. Votes are the motivation to post; votes are the stressors that allow people to be read. Being a town member without utilizing your vote on Day 1 is like being a scum member that refuses to nightkill. It's shooting your faction in the foot, deliberately.

As for asking why AJ wasn't voting fuzzy, I asked him that because he said "when players commit x action that fuzzy just committed, I find that scummy" and then didn't follow it up with his vote. I wanted to determine his motivation.

THAT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME.

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF MAFIA.

THAT'S EVERYTHING THERE IS TO THE ENTIRE GAME.


If you seriously expect me to sit on my hands and not post unless I am making a case, and you also don't want people to vote, then I think I can rest my case that you are a freaking noob. That's not an insult. Everyone is a noob at some point, and that's fine -- but you have to read noobs differently than you read players who are both experienced and competent, because their actions come from different mindsets. You need to understand each player's motivation the best you can to play this game properly, and determining basic facts like players in this game don't know what RVS is or don't know why everyone needs to be voting at all times especially on Day 1 is really important to figuring out who is scum.

[HookerPunch]

Alright, so here's my collective thoughts on this little feud war going on

--Bubba is overreacting, that's obvious to everyone. I do find it fascinating that he actually cared enough to go through the archives on fuzzy's stats, though. To me, that either means that he's a scared townie(face it, we've all been there) or playing one of the poorest scum performances I have ever seen.

--I hate people who act like fuzzy, while it does serve it's role of getting the ball rolling in a game, it's kind of destructive to one's own self-preservation and ends in getting oneself lynched more often than not. That said, from my own personal experience, this puts him in either the role of a scum or townie--I highly doubt a power role would draw such to his self. In a case like this, I do not support a lynch on fuzzy simply because the role of "the instigator" is an important one, and I would like to see his play after a night before drawing conclusions.

--I'm not sure I have anything to say on notscience besides my natural disposition to hate ponies. Same goes for JuanJuan. Neither has stoked my scum sensors, but neither has come off as inherently town.

--Everyone else has been a voice of reason, as should be obvious. Of those, I am most inclined to think Amrun is town-aligned at the moment, but I've been wrong before. I am disappointed that both him and marc find me scummy, but c'est la vie.

--Meanwhile, pitoli has yet to post. Like, I mean, I know lurking as a scum tell is kind of an antiquated notion due to VLA and stuff, but he posted yesterday in other places. Perhaps he simply forgot he was in this game, if so, once he posts I will remove my vote, but as of now, I will not let someone go without saying a single thing.

In closing, I expect this to be a short day one. This has been one of the most hostile day ones I've ever seen.

[fuzzybutternut]

this puts him in either the role of a scum or townie

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/ ... 111428.jpg

[HookerPunch]

Please finish reading the sentence.

[fuzzybutternut]

I did. Several times to make sure I read it right.

[HookerPunch]

Okay.

[AngelInFreezer]

Angel, what do you think facilititates hearing more from people? Just sitting there wishing and praying, or doing something about it?

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

I usually start with questions and vote after unless I see something particularly scummy.

It's just how I play.

That and I want to hear what my hydra partner have to say about this whole matter.

-G

[Aj The Epic]

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

Night killing?

And he has this tendacy as what role?

Town especially, since that's the only games I've played with him. In a previous game, someone mentioned his scum meta being different.

In closing, I expect this to be a short day one. This has been one of the most hostile day ones I've ever seen.

This? Oh god... You must be very new here (or maybe you took a long vacation). This is pretty passive comparatively to the games I seem to get dropped into. It's kind of strange when no one is at each other's throats calling scumslips and misreps by page 7.

[JuanJuan]

Science, why are you so happy about a policy lynch D1, and so early into the day? If you're unable to work with one person 'being a nuisance' and fogging up your reads, how are you going to cope with a team of Mafia and potential 3P. I don't see that argument going anywhere smart, unless you're just trying to get Fuzzy to snap into seriousmode quicker.

[bubbajack8]

Dear Jesus. Please learn how to read.

I never said you shouldn't be voted if you're incompetent, and for the record, you are not doing a very bang up job of proving you are not. And quite frankly, yes, I feel as if I am playing in a newbie game without the benefit of being the IC.

Really?

being noob isn't a reason to lynch someone. It's actually a reason not to vote for you if you just have no fucking clue what you are doing.

Yes, I noticed pit isn't here, but attempting to engage him is the only way to try and get him to post. If he flakes, then he flakes, and we'll start anew with his replacement.

So If we start voting him something's just randomly going to go off in his brain that says, Oh shit I need too check MafiaScum? Lol. right.

And as for your response to post 160, I really can't express to you how much this shows how noob you are when it comes to MS play.

I'm sorry it appears you are trying to lead town. But it's true, is it not? You are acting like we are all incompatent noobs who can't think for ourselves. Contribute, don't try to lead us. And if you do want to lead us, give us reasoning behind foses.

I was not at all advocating a lynch, and if you put your brain cells to remember how I criticized another player for attempting to do that not 2 pages ago, you might have a better chance of comprehending that.

You seem to want people to vote. Pretty damn scummy to me.

Contribution doesn't happen in a vacuum. Votes are the most important tools that townies can EVER, ever have, regardless of any power roles. Votes are the motivation to post; votes are the stressors that allow people to be read. Being a town member without utilizing your vote on Day 1 is like being a scum member that refuses to nightkill. It's shooting your faction in the foot, deliberately.

I agree, votes are important. But votes are important to scum as well. Scum can see who reads who as what, and what to do differently or who to push. Sure they are refusing to vote, but it's because they aren't confident yet. I'd much rather them be confident in their vote then to vote randomly, or because someone like you said "it's logical for them to be there"

As for asking why AJ wasn't voting fuzzy, I asked him that because he said "when players commit x action that fuzzy just committed, I find that scummy" and then didn't follow it up with his vote. I wanted to determine his motivation.

Fair enough.

THAT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME.

THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF MAFIA.

THAT'S EVERYTHING THERE IS TO THE ENTIRE GAME.

I agree asking motivations is good. But the way you did it made it seem like your intentions were to have people voting. Sorry I'm playing the game and scumhunting.

If you seriously expect me to sit on my hands and not post unless I am making a case, and you also don't want people to vote, then I think I can rest my case that you are a freaking noob. That's not an insult. Everyone is a noob at some point, and that's fine -- but you have to read noobs differently than you read players who are both experienced and competent, because their actions come from different mindsets. You need to understand each player's motivation the best you can to play this game properly, and determining basic facts like players in this game don't know what RVS is or don't know why everyone needs to be voting at all times especially on Day 1 is really important to figuring out who is scum.

I don't expect you to not vote unless you are making a case. You should be contributing though. For 3 posts you just say I'm scum. That's your version of contributing? Then you say my wagon is too advanced, and ask notscience how much is reading. Then you go back at asking how experienced I am. Then after telling me I'm a noob and saying I'm incompatant. You finally explain it in abc format. And in C you say noobs shouldn't be lynched because they are just town who don't know what they are doing. Then you vote Hooker, just for not voting his suspect. No other reason given. Then you go back at calling me incompatent. Post 91 you ask fuzzy why he's ok with a lynch on page 4 yet you are asking people to vote. Then you say you like his reasoning for the wagon. Then you complain of walking into a Newbie game. Then you contribute again by asking if someone is pushi9ng a policy. Then you start asking people to vote. Then you participate in 160. Then you attack me again. 162. So out of your 18 posts, about 4 of them are actually usefull.

I still don't like being called a noob. On MS I understand. In the game of mafia I'm no noob, and I fell like scum's told me I'm a noob in one of my games before. Indeed I have. KeyBlade in this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4852537

My motivation? Serious? I've made my motivation clear. To lynch scum, and to not lynch town, why is that a problem?

I have an opinion that town doesn't have to be voting at all time, I'm sorry you disagree with it. But calling me a noob doesn't help.

Alright, so here's my collective thoughts on this little feud war going on

--Bubba is overreacting, that's obvious to everyone. I do find it fascinating that he actually cared enough to go through the archives on fuzzy's stats, though. To me, that either means that he's a scared townie(face it, we've all been there) or playing one of the poorest scum performances I have ever seen.

Scared towny? What reason do I have to be scared? Did I use it to try to force a lynch on fuzzy? No, I've explained he is town, and to leave it be. How the hell do you get scared towny?

--I hate people who act like fuzzy, while it does serve it's role of getting the ball rolling in a game, it's kind of destructive to one's own self-preservation and ends in getting oneself lynched more often than not. That said, from my own personal experience, this puts him in either the role of a scum or townie--I highly doubt a power role would draw such to his self. In a case like this, I do not support a lynch on fuzzy simply because the role of "the instigator" is an important one, and I would like to see his play after a night before drawing conclusions.

Lol. "He's either scum or town" Isn't that true for everyone? No Fuzzy's town.

--Everyone else has been a voice of reason, as should be obvious. Of those, I am most inclined to think Amrun is town-aligned at the moment, but I've been wrong before. I am disappointed that both him and marc find me scummy, but c'est la vie.

Serious?

--Meanwhile, pitoli has yet to post. Like, I mean, I know lurking as a scum tell is kind of an antiquated notion due to VLA and stuff, but he posted yesterday in other places. Perhaps he simply forgot he was in this game, if so, once he posts I will remove my vote, but as of now, I will not let someone go without saying a single thing.

Thank you for actually explaining you reasoning behind your vote on him. And looking up his history. Probably the only town part of this post.

In closing, I expect this to be a short day one. This has been one of the most hostile day ones I've ever seen.

>Short.

What's our most effective tool in doing something about it?

Night killing?

I was thinking forcing mles, but lol.

And he has this tendacy as what role?

Town especially, since that's the only games I've played with him. In a previous game, someone mentioned his scum meta being different.

thank you.

IN short. I see both of Amrun and Hooker rather scummy. Amrun more then the latter. My vote is on notscience, for ignoring my post on how fuzzy could be town, and his wanting to lynch fuzzy, but he hasn't posted and Amrun and Hooker are appearing more scummy then that to me. VOTE: Amrun

[Amrun]

I didn't mean that one should never vote for noobs. I meant saying that you shouldn't vote a noob simply for noobish behavior (ie don't vote someone for not knowing what RVS is).

And YES, I was saying that people should vote, and that isn't scummy and the fact that you think it is...

Sorry if it OFFENDS anyone to say that this game is filled almost exclusively with people who are noobs relative to me. When I say people are incompetent, I only mean that they are incompetent due to being noobs as far as I know, btw.

I don't find "noob" offensive. It means that you are inexperienced on MS and therefore don't follow norms and meta and must be read very differently. Everyone is a noob for a while. I was. I still am, compared to many players on this site. But in the context of this game? No. And I didn't realize I was signing up for this.

Go on pretending "I'm not contributing" when I'm one of the very few people actually doing anything in this game and posting and doing shit. (You're another, so thanks for that.)

I'm so frustrated with this game. I don't know how to play with people that VOTING IS SCUMMY and don't know what RVS is but are ALSO too arrogant to understand that they are relatively inexperienced. One or two is different, but when it's literally everyone that's like... what the hell. That's why there are SEs and ICs in newbie games. You need a mix of experience levels to keep a game moving, ideally.

[Amrun]

In closing, I expect this to be a short day one. This has been one of the most hostile day ones I've ever seen.

Oh, dear God.

Don't leave this queue or the mini normal queue, then. This is a really nicey-nice game.

[JuanJuan]

Bubba, if telling people to use their votes is scummy, then I don't know what isn't. Votes get people talking. Votes make people justify their actions. It's not as if he's asking people to hammer someone, or even put them near a hammer.

Amrun, i'll be the first to admit i'm a 'noob', and I don't have any pretentions about being a good player yet, but i'm trying to improve my play by playing outside of newbie games, too.