Mini 475 - CA9653 Mafia (Mod Abandoned)

[AlSleet]

as much as your posts direct suspicion to me, and nearly accuse me of being scum, i do agree with your philosophy. i think that at this point, we have to make up our minds because no further good will come from limitless "the only reason i said ___ was because you said ___ one post X"

i think everyones suspicions are where they are going to stay at this point and we should be able to reach a verdict.

Perhaps. We'd probably benefit from Flameaxe posting. I think we should wait until he does.

You seem very eager though.

[GodOfWine]

yeah probably...but he does have to read the entire post before he can really come to any conclusions...that might take a while

who knows maybe he'll find something no one else did or come to some unique conclusion that will shift gameplay

[Paradoxombie]

(Mainly the distancing argument: At the time GoW made the vote on Destructor, it seemed that the winds were blowing pretty clearly towards a destructor lynch. Thus, it was the perfect time for a scum buddy to switch over to his wagon for distancing purposes.

That strikes me as a very weak main argument. Especially when compared to Aceiks who was hestitant get on the wagon and opted to vote for someone else and death_omen who says destructor is a townie and unvoted, essentially preventing the lynch. You made a big deal about overthinking, but it looks to me as if you are just as guilty as anyone.

But I agree about destructor. I was planning to put a vote on a while ago but I definitely want flameaxe to post before we lynch.

Vote: Destructor

[AlSleet]

yeah probably...but he does have to read the entire post before he can really come to any conclusions...that might take a while

who knows maybe he'll find something no one else did or come to some unique conclusion that will shift gameplay

I just mainly want to see how he reacts to what's happening. Response and reaction, when analyzed correctly, can tell almost anything about a player.

If I had to lynch now, for the record, I think I'd probably go for death omen or destructor. It's subject to change, though.

[GodOfWine]

well then for the record i think that Aceiks (who i voted for) and destructor are both scum...not sure about death omen

as long as what flameaxe has to say doesnt totally change the course of the game, i would change my vote to destructor if it was necessary (based on my assertion that he is scum along with Aceiks my current vote)

i thought other people would find Aceiks just as threatening as i do

[PJ.]

FOS: Aceiks

To clarify again, if destructor is scum then there's

Aceiks

-refuses to vote destructor when he claims to think destructor is scum

-will only vote destructor if everyone else agrees to, ie. when there's no other option

and

GodofWine

-Freely voted destructor under no pressure and without any fear of being linked to him
-Suggests that we should lynch destructor but on the off chance he is town he is still so unhelpful that he might as well be antitown

I just don't understand how if destructor is scum you think GodofWine will look worse than you, Aceiks, in hindsight.

Both you and paradox seem to be jumping on me for not voting while also agreeing that voting would have been a bad idea.

I definitely never suggested that voting would be a bad idea or that not voting was a mistake(notice my own vote status)

That, my friends, is a clear contradiction and set off minor scum bells, for trying to be a useful townie but very obviously not sticking to his guns. If you FoS somebody you should at least carry the same opinion for more then 1 of your post. oh did i mention that he only made one post between those two quotes and it was a one liner. What exactly made you go from FoSing for one thing then not sticking with it in another?

(Mainly the distancing argument: At the time GoW made the vote on Destructor, it seemed that the winds were blowing pretty clearly towards a destructor lynch. Thus, it was the perfect time for a scum buddy to switch over to his wagon for distancing purposes.

That strikes me as a very weak main argument. Especially when compared to Aceiks who was hestitant get on the wagon and opted to vote for someone else and death_omen who says destructor is a townie and unvoted, essentially preventing the lynch. You made a big deal about overthinking, but it looks to me as if you are just as guilty as anyone.

But I agree about destructor. I was planning to put a vote on a while ago but I definitely want flameaxe to post before we lynch.

Vote: Destructor

If the last set of quotes set of bells, this sets off full fledged alarms coupled with SWAT officers and yatta yatta. Let me summarize this post: "That is a very bad and weak argument due to two guys who weren't even mentioned in the quote or post not getting on the wagon due to them having reasons(one of which i said was ok) not to. You're saying we're overthinking, aka you're putting pressure on me and my scum buddies(GodofWine,Aceiks) to make up our mines. But since your telling me to pull the trigger and you had an agrument about Destructor and I swear I totally was gonna put a vote on him although i haven't even mentioned his scumminess all game, Pow I'll vote him"

How do you say you have a terrible arguement and then vote for the guy he tosses the most suspicion on. And can you point out a post where you said you thought he was scummy(beside that weak FoS for AlSleet "warning him" which you unvoted after)?

Vote: Paradoxombie FoS:GodofWine, Aceiks

The FoSes are for ties to Paradox. and I'm sure i could go back and find more to make stronger cases on you two and if xombie is scum bet your asses I will be.

[Ripley]

Do you also realize that Ripley basically voted for you (and debated voting for death_omen) for putting destructor at L-2? I'm not sure why that's also not showing up on your "protecting destructor" radar.

No, that's not right. It's quite clear from the post where I voted, that the basic reason for my suspicion is not that these players made a L-2 vote, as you imply, but that the votes were accompanied by flimsy reasoning. There were already other reasons to be suspicious of both players, which I stated, and which counted towards my considering them for votes. In the case of GodOfWine the timing was also a factor, as was a third reason I didn't state - the lack of any previous suspicion of destructor on his part. He only mentions him once in his previous posts and that mention is supportive. All these factors combined to make the vote seem suspicious to me.

Do I agree that GodOfWine is scummy? Absolutely. But the fact is, in my eyes, the most damning evidence against him is dependent upon Destructor being scum.

I disagree that GodOfWine's guilt is dependent on destructor's. His vote feels fake to me, but from a player in his first game I could see that being as likely to be opportunism as bussing. Probably

more

likely. It always raises my eyebrows a bit when a player tries to make one player's guilt conditional upon another's, especially in a case like this where Gaspode has previously characterised GOW's posting as scummy throughout:

FOS: Death_omen and GodOfWine, though, mainly for lots of "trying-to-appear-helpful" posts. They don't say much of anything and seem to avoid any sort of concrete association with possible controversy. Basically, I just get a useless, and possibly scummy, vibe from both.

Finally:

Hell, I'd trade any townie (and possibly even the vig or cop, depending on the situation) for a mafia--I'd even do it, say, three times in a game!

If the remaining power role is a cop, then I'm pretty sure we only have time for two mistakes.

[Paradoxombie]

I'm sorry but your mistaken I FOS'd Aceiks for the quote which you left out of the first post. Here's a more accurate quote of the same post:

also, I am willing to vote for him if

we

decide that he is the best lynch later on.

It strikes me as entirely and totally un-town to base your opinions on other people's.

FOS: Aceiks

The second part of that post was just an argument of whether GoW would look guilty if destructor came up scum. To prove how I thought he would not, I compared his actions to that of Aceiks and hoped to show how Aceiks would clearly look more like destructors partner than GoW would.

So the second quote obviously doesn't contradict this. I didn't argue with Aceiks for any reason other than he thought GoW was distancing. Not for not voting destructor, and not for saying he didn't feel confortable voting to L-1. And I only FOS'd him for the quote.

The third quote is really more of the same argument just with a different person. I made the same exact point about Aceiks again and I also mentioned Death_Omen because both had done things that I feel made them look like scum partners in a much simpler way than the complicated scumtell Gaspode was using. That was the part I was arguing about not destructor. It's Occam's Razor; I was trying to show you might as well use the simplest explanation. Just because I say I think they should be percieved as more scummy than GoW doesn't mean I want to lynch them or condemn their actions. Additionally the entire argument is hypothetical until we know destructor's alignment.

And I don't know why you think Gaspode is puting pressure on me. He didn't even mention me in his rant. If anything I agree with him that we are overthinking. Hence my vote of destructor. And you are correct than I haven't mentioned that I find destructor scummy yet. I guess that's because almost everyone else had and I thought it just went without saying. But what difference does it make? You don't even think that destructor is my partner, why the hell wouldn't I just vote destructor before? Why would I suddenly change my mind just because of Gaspode?

I just didn't feel comfortable putting destructor at L-1, much like Aceiks. Well now I do, and I would be willing to lynch him too if Flameaxe would hurry up and give some input.

In conclusion please look at context next time you go after someone or I will assume you are purposely misleading the town. Additionally it may be in your best interest to ask for explanations and draw conclusions afterwards.

[Paradoxombie]

my post was directed at Panzerjager's

[Mert]

Votecount

death_omen

(2)

Flameaxe, destructor

GodOfWine

(2)

Ripley, Aceiks

destructor

(2)

Gaspode, Paradoxombie

Panzerjager

(1)

AlSleet

Aceiks

(1)

GodOfWine

Paradoxombie

(1)

Panzerjager

Not Voting

(2):

TooMuchPete, death_omen

Eleven alive so six will lynch.

Thanks for having the eyes of a hawk (and the speed of a puma), Paradoxombie! Vote count amended.

[Mert]

~destructor has PMed me to say he's out of town for a few days~

[Gaspode]

Well, the mini-crash earlier stopped me from posting, but here's what I initially had written:

Gaspode wrote:
(Mainly the distancing argument: At the time GoW made the vote on Destructor, it seemed that the winds were blowing pretty clearly towards a destructor lynch. Thus, it was the perfect time for a scum buddy to switch over to his wagon for distancing purposes.


That strikes me as a very weak main argument. Especially when compared to Aceiks who was hestitant get on the wagon and opted to vote for someone else and death_omen who says destructor is a townie and unvoted, essentially preventing the lynch. You made a big deal about overthinking, but it looks to me as if you are just as guilty as anyone.

It's probably true that I am somewhat guilty of overthinking. I should clarify my statement, though: I originally did not want to discuss this hypothetical situation on Day 1. I think it's pointless to spend too much time on such things when you don't actually have the information on which you're basing the entire theory. So I originally just made a note of the possibility for Day 2 and went on with other things. However, when Aceiks brought up the theory in post 125, and everyone either misunderstood it or ignored it, I felt it warranted a little further exposure and explanation. And I agree that it would be weak evidence on its own. However, I found most of GoW's posts quite scummy even before this incident (if you look up my earlier posts, I at least FOS'ed him once, and may have mentioned him one or two other times as well). If Destructor is scum, this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back in my mind.

By no means did I mean to give anyone else immunity from a similar argument (i.e. Deathomen, Aceiks) by not mentioning them in my post. I simply didn't have the chance to go back and research their cases to the point where I felt I could talk about them in any useful manner. I still feel like I need to take another look at their posts, but I'm suspicious enough of Destructor that I don't feel a burning need to talk about their cases before the night phase (when I can hopefully do some serious reading and analysis).

Also:

Gaspode wrote:
Hell, I'd trade any townie (and possibly even the vig or cop, depending on the situation) for a mafia--I'd even do it, say, three times in a game!

If the remaining power role is a cop, then I'm pretty sure we only have time for two mistakes.

You're right, counting night kills. I didn't really stop to do the math, I was just alluding to the idea that we have three scum in the game. Sorry for the confusion.

That's all for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more eventually.

PS: The timing of Destructor's leave of absence is supremely frustrating. I understand that real life has to come first, so no hard feelings, but hurry back.

[GodOfWine]

PS: The timing of Destructor's leave of absence is supremely frustrating. I understand that real life has to come first, so no hard feelings, but hurry back.

entirely QFT

[death_omen]

We should think over today's lynch more carefully rather than hammering destructor who i think is a townie.

Reasons? Most people have extreme difficulty telling the difference between newbie scum and newbie town.

Newbie scum= one that gives away his position very easily and is immediately noticed by other players.

Newbie town= one that is a townie but seems like a scum to everyone other member of the town excluding himself.

[death_omen]

man i suck at codes.

[TooMuchPete]

Jebus, folks. I'm behind. Work was busy. I'll catch up over the weekend and have something to say by Sunday. Apologies.

[Mert]

Pick it up folks or I'll hit you with a deadline.

[GodOfWine]

alright what is everyone waiting for to make a clear cut decision (devoid of sarcasm) obviously 9 of us have votes in but they cant stay in that way if were ever gonna reach a verdict...is there anyone voting for someone but also finds someone else who has votes scummy and are willing to change votes? we need to see some action

[GodOfWine]

like for instance

i voted for Aceiks, but would easily shift my vote to destructor because i find them equally scummy and was voting for Aceiks because i thought he was a tougher opponent

everyone else kind of needs to give their options if this is gonna get anywhere

[Gaspode]

I agree that people need to start posting, especially those who really haven't made their views clear yet.

GodOfWine, why don't you just switch to Destructor if you find him and Aceiks equally scummy? Your accusations of Aceiks seem to be going nowhere, so why not be the one to start things up again by changing your vote? Or are you still just a bit hopeful that you can save your scum buddy for one more day by deflecting the bandwagon to someone else? I'm sure everyone would see that excuse as perfectly legitimate, if you just came right out and told us.

And I'd think you'd jump all over the chance to vote for Destructor, since at the moment you two are tied for the vote lead. Unless you're pretty sure he's town, why allow that to continue, when you could "easily shift your vote" to him and find him "equally scummy" to Aceiks?

[destructor]

Well, I'm back now, and I read over the posts I'd missed.

Seeing as I am convinced that I'm not mafia (heh), I found a lot of what was written kind of meaningless and honestly can't find the energy to respond to them, if that's needed. If anyone want to ask me anything specific, ask away and I'll answer as best I can.

I seem to have bee coupled up with a few people on the condition that I am scum. If you lynch me today, you'll find that I'm not, and that's the end of those theories.


I still think death_omen is scum. He's hardly posted, so maybe I'll assume this is why very few have much else to say about him. It seems kinda obvious to me. He jumps on the destructor-wagon, then jumps off as soon as it starts to look a bit shaky.

Since I think he's scum, I have to be suspicious of Aceiks for providing a strange explanation for death's initial vote for me, and generally playing down the notion that death_omen is scum. I guess that's Ockham's Razor.

Death Omen

This is nitpicky, but your stream of consiciousness posts (70-73) were very strange. 70 and 72 had the exact same starting words and very similar content. And in 3 minutes you went from FOS to Vote. I'm assuming you were posting as you were reading the thread, it's just a very odd way to do it.

then

And death_omen's posts make a lot more sense if you imagine him reading the thread and hitting quick reply as thoughts came to him, which is what I think he did. It's still a weak vote, but the post structure at least makes sense that way.

Both of these seem to acknowledge death_omen's scummy behaviour, but then make it out like it's nothing to worry about. It appears to me that Aceiks may be creating a sense that he's seriously considering the possibility that death_omen IS mafia, but finding it is not a valid possibility.

But when I consider that he's generally gone into so much detail in his analysis, this seems ridiculous. He makes an effort to hypothesise a connection between me and GoW, but doesn't want to suggest that death_omen could be scum, despite death's voting behaviour?

So, my vote is still on death_omen, but

FoS: Aceiks

And a belated

FoS: GodOfWine

.
His vote for me was just about as bad/opportunistic as death_omens.

Before anyone scream 'DISTANCING' sometime earlier I did point out that I found GoW's lack of suspicion of my scummy posts confusing. It's not much, but hey, I've had my eye on him.

[destructor]

Hmm.
No posts.
Boredom.


I feel a self-vote coming on.

XD


JOKING! OK! I'M JOKING!

=P


On a more serious note. Flameaxe still hasn't said anything.

[PJ.]

I'm startng to agree with Gaspode.

unvote, vote:destructor

[GodOfWine]

GodOfWine, why don't you just switch to Destructor if you find him and Aceiks equally scummy? Your accusations of Aceiks seem to be going nowhere, so why not be the one to start things up again by changing your vote?

yeah i guess that makes sense

unvote, Vote:destructor

[GodOfWine]

so destructor needs two more votes now....who can be swayed?