Newbie 1759 (Game Over)

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.2

Fredrick E Campbell (3):

Selynee, rJXr, Friend Computer

Nobita (2):

gigabyteTroubadour, PenguinPower

SugarNips (1):

Papa Zito

gigabyteTroubadour (1):

Nobita

No Vote (2):

Fredrick E Campbell, SugarNips

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, December 8, at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-12-08 16:00:00).

[Friend Computer]

Does anyone have anything to say?

[Papa Zito]

Does anyone have anything to say?

Nope, time to lynch SugarNips.

[Friend Computer]

God damn it, there is no reasoning whatsoever.

VOTE: Zito

[PenguinPower]

Does anyone have anything to say?

Nope, time to lynch SugarNips.

Nah. He's got Nips in his name. Must be town.

I much prefer a Fred lynch.

VOTE: Fredrick E Campbell

[PenguinPower]

^
Naked vote in honor of Fred.

[Papa Zito]

God damn it, there is no reasoning whatsoever.

So?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

These are the point for my last question :
why you being haste on RVS sheep idea?
To translate my question "why you was being haste on RVS sheep idea while we have 14 days dayphase to think and figure out the scum rather go with desperate RVS" and you had answered my question in your last post.

Oh, I see.

Just because I was trying to start a wagon on you doesn't mean that I wanted you to get lynched page 1. The purpose of RVS is to throw meaningless votes around to poke around at people, and getting a wagon going is generally a useful way to garner interactions from multiple people. This is mostly because you really can't ignore a wagon that can possibly go through, whether you're on it, off it, or the person being wagonned.

Now that votes have more meaning behind them, you'll see that I won't be voting people just to wagon them.

Really? you sounded very lingering to use that reason to encourage your RVS sheep idea?
To precise very dependent with that reason.
how i have to picture it like a man come to house because he bring his police identity the owners just let him in without know that man true motive.

Well, yes, it's my reasoning that RVS works so of course I'll be using it to justify my initial reasons for voting you. I don't think your metaphor really applies here...

Obviously, my reasons have changed now that we are past RVS.

Unfortunately you are my alternative choice
You and rJXr shown the most scum read for me so far.
That to being said if i change my vote i from rJx then i would vote you.

I think you misunderstood my question

By, "What's your alternative to RVS?", I wanted to ask you what you think the best way to start a game is since you are scumreading me for pushing an RVS bandwagon for my first post. Like I said, it's very typical for our games to start out like that so I want to understand what you think I should have done instead.

---

catch-up post coming up next

[Papa Zito]

Actually

I much prefer a Fred lynch.

Can you explain this plz

[PenguinPower]

Actually

I much prefer a Fred lynch.

Can you explain this plz

Initial push on rJ based on his RVS stuff is scum trying to push an easy mislynch - I didn't like his misrep on rJ being calm either, and his change of tune when called out on in. He unvoted when he met resistance. Then votes on you, but unvotes when he gets a little resistance. It looks to me like he's trying to get something to stick.

Prime example: Fred's response to the Nips on why Fred's vote on you was bad met with a "this indeed is very debatable," but instead of debating he unvotes. Bad.

[Papa Zito]

Groovie. The calm/not calm/"now my mind is clear" thing is extremely suss, I agree. I'm conflicted on the voting but I get what you're saying.

[rJXr]

Actually

I much prefer a Fred lynch.

Can you explain this plz

Initial push on rJ based on his RVS stuff is scum trying to push an easy mislynch - I didn't like his misrep on rJ being calm either, and his change of tune when called out on in. He unvoted when he met resistance. Then votes on you, but unvotes when he gets a little resistance. It looks to me like he's trying to get something to stick.

Prime example: Fred's response to the Nips on why Fred's vote on you was bad met with a "this indeed is very debatable," but instead of debating he unvotes. Bad.

This.

Screw me if PP is scum ( little paranoia since I see him as a decent mafia player ). If Fred flips town it'll only be fair to have a closer look on him, same goes for me obviously, but well, can't question myself.

[rJXr]

Fredrick at l-1. Time to explain your play up till now. I don't see anyone taking his vote off you soon so maybe even a claim. To the others, do not hammer without intent or giving him the chance to speak up. Well if you're scum go have a bit off.

[rJXr]

*bite ofc

[PenguinPower]

Fredrick at l-1. Time to explain your play up till now. I don't see anyone taking his vote off you soon so maybe even a claim. To the others, do not hammer without intent or giving him the chance to speak up. Well if you're scum go have a bit off.

He's not at L-1. FC hopped over to Zito.

[PenguinPower]

Screw me if PP is scum ( little paranoia since I see him as a decent mafia player ). If Fred flips town it'll only be fair to have a closer look on him, same goes for me obviously, but well, can't question myself.

Don't do this as town. This reads as scum trying to setup a mislynch for D2.

[rJXr]

Right, I missed that. Still explanations are surely not wrong here. I don't see anyone as close to scum as him at the moment.

True, but since I am town there's no reason why I wouldn't let people take part in my thought process.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Zito's entrance was a bit strange and I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. There was already a serious wagon going, and placing a vote on a non-entity while not giving some sort of input on current events is a bit disappointing. I don't think the SugarNips vote itself is bad though (debating sheeping it actually), however, and I also think his questions for Nobita later make up for it.

rXJr's defense of himself felt kind of redundant, and the pretty quick release of pressure afterwards just made me feel even worse about the wagon (and better about townreading rXJr). I liked 94 and his reads in general, the paranoia around me feels pretty genuine (I skimmed rXJr's scumgames in the past and I don't recall him expressing paranoia over townreading more experienced players, so I'm taking that as a good sign), and the reevaulation of the Friend Computer read is something I was hoping to lead rXJr into doing myself. Only read that's really weird to me is the strong townread of Nobita...

Friend Computer, I regret to inform you that communist sympathizers have been interfering with your reading circuits.

sorry, won't happen again

I have also read the defense and have found it convincing. Mostly.
You're still a suspect but I feel that you are less likely to be scum.

If you find the defense convincing, does it really make sense to still scumread him? Also, why trust the scumreads of your scumreads? If you scumread someone, that (at least to me) means that you believe their motives dishonest... Do you think rXJr is bussing (voting/suspecting his own partner)?

But can we get in some actual discussion? I would hate to have to take things into my own hands because we hit the deadline...

What additional discussion would you like? I think the current discussion is pacing itself well for a newbie game.

---

Zito/FC interactions are pretty entertaining btw. Townreading FC from them, the push for typical pro-town play reads pretty genuine and reminds me a bit of me during my first game here.

Agreed with penguin that FOS is a bit silly. I rarely see people use it outside of the newbie queue anyway.

I'd like to see a lot more from Selynee, I think she's town but she's quiet so it's hard for me to double-down on that read.

I actually liked 125 for a few reasons. I think the admission of nullreading everyone this stage of the game is just unlikely to come from scum their first game (especially from what I can judge of Frederick's personality), I'd expect him to tunnel harder or at least bullshit some reads by now, especially since we've seen rXJr out a readlist. The throwing-shit-at-the-wall-to-see-what-sticks shtick is exactly what I think newbtown would be doing if they don't really have a direction to follow. It's far from good play, but at this stage of the game I think it's believable.

That's not to say I'd let Frederick coast on a townread like that. Usually newbtown find their way around the gamestate at some point, while newbscum will flounder because they have no idea how they're supposed to act as town. Give him time to sort the game his way. (If you're still stumped, Frederick, my advice is to try looking for town rather than scum. Look for people who are genuinely uninformed and gathering information, whose main priority is to read into the gamestate, and try to understand their thought processes. Since you're more likely to be right about townreads and people rarely try to look like scum, I find townhunting to be easier and more rewarding than scumhunting. plus i feel it's more efficient to find your teammates and work with them before you start attacking the other team, you know?)

I guess it's "safe" to unvote like that but that value call seems a bit shallow. Frederick's sass in response to rXJr and Penguin is also pretty townie tbh. I'd expect more self-consciousness and just less antagonizing from a scum!Frederick.

If you want to talk about people throwing-shit-at-the-wall-and-seeing-what-sticks (in an actually scummy way), look no further than 144 :/... Not really a fan of Nobita somehow getting the idea that Penguin doesn't want people to look into or push lurkers. There's a heavy vibe of Nobita trying to "expose" PP as scum that feels really fake. To play on Nobita's love for simile ( ), he's like a tabloid writer looking to spin one's every move into something sketchy and leave no room for them to defend themselves.

---

rXJr

, why is Nobita your strongest townread?

Frederick

, have you looked into Nobita like you said you would earlier? What's your read on him?

Selynee

, is your vote serious now? Seeing as though your vote is on the leading lynch wagon you should probably take it off if your top scumread is someone else.

Nobita, FC, and Frederick

, what did you like about rXJr's defense?

I have really mixed feelings about the Frederick wagon btw. i'm falling asleep at my keyboard atm but when i'm feeling a bit better i'm definitely going to try to see how much PP's case adds up versus how I've been viewing the gamestate.

Screw me if PP is scum ( little paranoia since I see him as a decent mafia player ). If Fred flips town it'll only be fair to have a closer look on him, same goes for me obviously, but well, can't question myself.

Don't do this as town. This reads as scum trying to setup a mislynch for D2.

No it doesn't?? In a micro, looking into the people on a mislynch wagon the next day is just normal play. It's not like he's saying that one of {PP, Frederick}

has

to be scum (which would actually be fallacious logic and bad play to avoid). Plus the invitation to look into him should make it obvious that that's not his motive...

And even then, I've seen town make posts like that more often than scum :/

[PenguinPower]

No it doesn't?? In a micro, looking into the people on a mislynch wagon the next day is just normal play. It's not like he's saying that one of {PP, Frederick} has to be scum (which would actually be fallacious logic and bad play to avoid). Plus the invitation to look into him should make it obvious that that's not his motive...

And even then, I've seen town make posts like that more often than scum :/

Yes, it does?? Don't really care about your n= experience with it. There's no reason for town to start lining up next steps at this stage.

@bolded: That's why I said don't do it as town, and not "Town doesn't do that."

Also, this isn't a micro.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

9 people = a micro, I thought?

Why shouldn't someone, who thinks they're on a wagon at L-1 and is ready for a hammer, be thinking about their (and not even their, but the town's) next steps? I agree that it's a little premature to BE at the L-1-and-ready-for-a-hammer stage, but that's where rXJr was at the time. his thought process makes sense.

Wrt to the bolded, you said that rXJr's post reads like scum pushing a mislynch. I added that town tends to make posts like that more often than scum because I disagree that it was a scummy post. I don't see what you're trying to say here.

[Friend Computer]

VOTE: Frederick

If this would be a hammer, don't count the vote.

[Papa Zito]

...that's not how votes work.

[rJXr]

VOTE: Frederick

If this would be a hammer, don't count the vote.

You are not serious are you? IF this was a hammer it would have counted anyways. That's a legal vote, doesn't matter if you tell the mod to not let it count, it still will. Ok, I need to sort my mind after that retarded post. I'd like to hear from others what they're thinking about it, for me that play is so absolutely dumb it can't possibly be newbscum slipping, I mean cmon, like wtf?!

[PenguinPower]

L-1 now.

[rJXr]

This lets me think of him more as a town than a scum because of what I just said CONSIDERING he's new to the game.