Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[rb]

-________________________-

*pours triple shot of vodka*

[Expedience]

Hey I didn't write that =(

I just read Saru as town for what he posted arguing with you, not even you or Chuck. I said nothing about TvT and agree that it's not a good way to see things

[rb]

Then I'm pretty sure it's Cass who was saying that this stuff is generally TvT.

[rb]

Anyway when I think about it I can maybe allow some room for the fact that Saru's just not getting the point and thinks he's right about something when he's actually not and that he's not necessarily scum.

Gameplay/Cass/Golden then?

[Expedience]

K, rb, I don't get you - but whatever your logic may be, you are wrong about me.

How about this compromise: We lynch Golden today, and you wagon me next day? At that point we may be able to 'conf' a thing or two. And base decisions on things we

can

talk about.

Why would you want to be lynched?

You've never suggested this idea until now, and if you think it would benefit us why not just vote yourself now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gameplay and Cass are not viable lynches today.

[Cass]

K, rb, I don't get you - but whatever your logic may be, you are wrong about me.

How about this compromise: We lynch Golden today, and you wagon me next day? At that point we may be able to 'conf' a thing or two. And base decisions on things we

can

talk about.

Why would you want to be lynched?

You've never suggested this idea until now, and if you think it would benefit us why not just vote yourself now?

I don't want to be lynched, it would not benefit town and I promise you I'll never vote myself. But I would not be a bad wagon tomorrow, it'd be interesting. I want to see rb make a case on me, for one. And preferably it wouldn't get as far as lynching me It would at the very least give rb some things to say about me that he

can

talk about, because that post of his really irritates me.

I'd like to hear from Ryan, Chuck and Gameplay (and Golden's replacement, though not sure there will be one...)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We should lynch Golden before he is replaced.

[RyanK]

Dierfire's early posts apparently mirrors rb's. Still investigating on that. Expect me to be done in three days.

[Chuck]

I refuse to lynch Golden before he is replaced. That sounds like a scum strategy.

[Dierfire]

@BBT

Dier, can you tell me who you think is scum and why please?

I gave thoughts on golden009 in 1557.
I'm working on reading other players, but I will compile responses to my questions as they come in and get back to you on the rest.
Speaking of pending questions, I read over you in ISO and found that you didn't explain many of your reads, which is why I'm asking you about one that surprised me.

What changed your opinion of gameplay506?

[Accountant]

VC 2.5

MathBlade (5)

: BlueBloodedToffee, Expedience, Dierfire, Cass, rb

Cass (1)

: pitoli

BlueBloodedToffee (1)

: RyanK

Dierfire (1):

Saru

Not Voting:

gameplay506, MathBlade, Chuck

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-23 14:00:30)

MathBlade replaces golden009! Please welcome them!

[Accountant]

gameplay506 is being prodded.

[MathBlade]

Havent read yet will read after work.
However I did see last vote count I am at L-1 I am a VT.

Please give me a chance to read the thread and post thoughts.

And FYI my pronoun is them.

[Accountant]

Sorry about that, Math. Shouldn't try to replace a player while groggy on mobile.

[rb]

Hi Math (:

[rb]

UNVOTE: Mathblade

I'm happy to give them time.

[MathBlade]

Still at work but taking a quick break

VC 1.39
Glitch (7): Expedience, rb, gameplay506, Martha Zolanski, Dierfire, BlueBloodedToffee, pitoli
Expedience (2): Chuck, Cass
Martha Zolanski (2): golden009, Glitch
BlueBloodedToffee (1): RyanK

Not Voting: Saru

Based on this vote count and the vote count on me Expedience and Saru likely scum possibly with Blue Blooded Toffee. This lynch happened way too fast especially since I know I am town. Expedience seems to have been vote sitting need to figure out why.

Unless Saru is on V/LA they are likely scum as they usually swapped votes more.

Need to read posts to confirm my theory.

[MathBlade]

Hi RB

[MathBlade]

This is false. I gave reasons as to why they were in my lynch pool(1465). To be fair, it's something that comes out of PoE because I have lots of town/null-town reads, so I don't necessarily think that (Ryan, Golden, Dier) is the scum team; this is very unlikely, but I'm working within my reads at the moment. If they change, my lynch pool will also change.

From Saru's ISO.

This is not town Saru.
Town Saru was argumentative and more confrontational. He had no problems arguing with the thread.

TownSaru also never repeated phrasings. He repeats "This is false." As if this is something he must prepare. I will go into detail once I am not skimming ISOs for town and feel but this feels off.

[MathBlade]

Too scummy to be scum is a lazy ass excuse to list of somebody as town.
More fitting here would be "too dumb to be scum" but its still all the same.

That's not really what I'm saying. More like, "too outgoing, too much effort to be scum" because that's why I'm townreading him. And then I am bothered by the lack of consistency. Like, look at the thing he posted just now. That's a town post for a newbie, he wants answers and he's hounding you for them. Ryan isn't dumb, it's just he has distanced himself from mortal affairs and concerns himself only with simple questions and answers.

But I know I have a documented distrust of d1 wagons.

Expedience should know that effort is a shitty reason to town read someone from Gistou. Not buying this in an ISO perspective but need to get a read to be sure later.

[MathBlade]

BBT and Chuck also need eyes if Expedience is town.

The only thing that gives me pause is I am a counter wagon to Chuck and that is all kinds of terribad.

So if I am wrong on Expedience + Saru then probably Chuck scum.

That is all til I get home.

[Saru]

that I'm still reading rb as Town (or were you unaware that I was reading rb as Town D1?)--to which I'd respond that I don't feel that rb has done anything D2 that warrants changing that read

The issue I take with this is that your town read of rb initially came about because of the fight between him and gameplay. You said you felt that out of those two, rb was just more likely town from a pure statistical standpoint(correct me if I'm wrong). I'd argue(and have) that using statistics to present a town read to someone(especially in the very early game) doesn't make much sense and just feels weak overall.

However, you went on to elaborate in 168 that it was rb's initiative to break out of RVS so quickly that made you feel he was trying to help town rather than hurt it and I'm assuming that was your secondary(?) reasoning for town reading him. I also felt the same way, however, you seem confident that, that one act of initiative from rb is enough for you to keep town reading him up to this point. If this is true, why? And if not, what has rb done besides that, that makes you strongly town read him?

that my vote was based on D1 reasons--to which I'd respond that golden009 hasn't given me any D2 updates!

I get that, but it seriously doesn't bother you that a wagon formed on a slot which was empty up to this point in D2? You've made some accusations against that slot during D1, but you don't care to actually see a response from it? How confident are you that the slot will flip scum?

that I was "throwing shade" at you--to which I'd respond that asking you for a vote is a pretty reasonable request when I'm trying to read you, and doesn't really hold water as an example of "throwing shade" (I will state very clearly when I am suspicious of another player)

Ok. I voted you. What's your read of me now?

Dierfire has 4x your posts and multiple V/LA, but you keep trying to say it's "inconsistent" for me to say he wouldn't be lurkerscum and that you might be. And then you have the nerve to try and tell me what I meant by my own definition, which by the way, absolutely doesn't mean that I "must" see Dierfire as lurkerscum and that I can't think you're lurkerscum.

We've been over this. I'm not going to keep arguing/repeating the point. It doesn't really matter at this point because: I actually town read you from our argument because upon re-read, I can actually see what might have caused you to start to get irritated. I think it was the tail end of this post: 1535. I can see why you think I was attempting to mis-rep your point, but that wasn't my goal. I just felt like you were skirting my questions and that started to annoy me. I feel like both of our frustration build-up at that point led to points becoming garbled rather than more clear, and it just had a snow-ball effect.

[Saru]

This is not town Saru.
Town Saru was argumentative and more confrontational. He had no problems arguing with the thread.

I'll let you finish reading, but I want to make a point about this:

You're basing this off of Mini 1800, a game where my level of aggression and confrontation led to me conf-bias hardcore and allowing scum to win with a clean sweep. I would not walk away from a game like that without having learned a few lessons, especially considering it was my first game back from no mafia for something like 5 years.

You can look at my games after that game, and you'll see me walling less and just arguing with the thread less in general. And I was town in all those games. I'm not as argumentative and just not as aggressive because I've learned that it leads to nothing fruitful and usually just ends in frustration from both parties involved(i.e. qubixes and myself in Mini 1800).

A recent example of that is the argument between rb and myself. It didn't do me or anyone else any good because it just left me standing where I first started, which isn't productive.

[RyanK]

...
Principally this is a Town read on rb more than a Mafia read on gameplay506.
...

Why did you townread rb in the first place?