Self-Voting: Why, barring setup, you should never do it

[SleepyKrew]

Just removing the capability to vote yourself won't stop people from going "fine go ahead lynch me idc anymore".

[Thor665]

but when you take it to the main thing core element of someone going "FUCK THIS GAME IM PISSED SCREW YOU selfvote" as town its a player being clouded by emotions and they dont think logical.

Frankly I will admit that players who let it get to that level boggle my mind and probably that person should play less Mafia games.
Those people need to be taught that 'replace out' is an options, and in my honest opinion all of them should be game banned for a few weeks after any action so against wincon.

[Thor665]

Just removing the capability to vote yourself won't stop people from going "fine go ahead lynch me idc anymore".

Yes, but without a self vote then you can go 'replace out then' and if they refuse you can engage them in a conversation about 'why not' and then you can scumhunt them and force them to play or have them state unwillingness to play and get them to replace out, both of which lack the pro-scum actions of a town self voting.

[SleepyKrew]

Can't force someone being irrational to be rational.

[Thor665]

If they're that far gone than replacement is the solution.
If they're not then, as I have multiple times, yes, you can talk to them.

[ika]

but when you take it to the main thing core element of someone going "FUCK THIS GAME IM PISSED SCREW YOU selfvote" as town its a player being clouded by emotions and they dont think logical.

1)Frankly I will admit that players who let it get to that level boggle my mind and probably that person should play less Mafia games.
2)Those people need to be taught that 'replace out' is an options,
3)and in my honest opinion all of them should be game banned for a few weeks after any action so against wincon.

1) i can agree on
2) see below
3)now that seems a little extreme imo, if someone pushed someone to a breaking point, who is to blame?

2)If they're that far gone than replacement is the solution.
If they're not then, as I have multiple times, yes, you can talk to them.

2) for both of them:
if the said player doesnt want to replace out due to it giving work to a mod (tbh, replacements should never have to happen but do anyway), what happens then?
how many times have you seen players say "replace out" but the said player says "I'm not giving the mod extra work"

tbh i think unless if you mod yourself you don't really know the full strain/annoyance it is to try to find/wait on replacements. then think on how it impacts the players as well.

[Thor665]

1. Cool.
2. How many times do I then lynch that player? I will agree replace outs are bad, sure. But if my option is "strain to mod and players" or "slot that doesn't play because of whine"? Replace out *every time*.
3. If that person broke site rules than, theoretically, they should have been caught by the mod and dealt with prior to that point. Playing against wincon is against site rules, so are personal attacks, both should be punished enough to make people not want to do them.

[SleepyKrew]

If they're that far gone than replacement is the solution.
If they're not then, as I have multiple times, yes, you can talk to them.

Some people decide to just be uncooperative little shits though, and you can't make them replace out.

[Thor665]

The mod can, and if that's what they're doing the mod should as it has moved past player interaction to a negative state of the game.

[SleepyKrew]

I don't think the mod can intervene in that situation, because it's basically saying "this person is playing against their wincon meaning this slot is town".

[Thor665]

If they stop playing the game then they are playing against wincon regardless of alignment.

[ika]

3. If that person broke site rules than, theoretically, they should have been caught by the mod and dealt with prior to that point. Playing against wincon is against site rules, so are personal attacks, both should be punished enough to make people not want to do them.

then wouldnt logic dictate that selfvoting as scum is also against wincon? yes theres the argument of "cutting discussion from town" but in general sense. shouldnt they try to fight their lynch like you are saying town should do?

what makes it so diffrent that its anti-wincon for scums to do that?

sk did also kinda adress it as well on mod intervention: mod/hosts should not intervene with players quarrels unless if its absolutely needed if every player that went against wincon was forced replaced (or even worse, modkilled) its no longer really maifa and its more of "how long till we get a new replacement" imo

if we banned/replaced every player that went anti-wincon b/c they got emotional rilled or had some rl thing that made them play illogical/anti-wincon, i would say we would never have a player base again.

there are many situations that are gray when it comes to what is anti-wincon vs bad player vs irrational plays

pedit: so if a scum does nothing except vote/prod dodge/says "busy do later" is that actually anti-wincon or just scum procrastination? i think theres too many gray areas on many tings like this tbh

[SleepyKrew]

If they stop playing the game then they are playing against wincon regardless of alignment.

If a scum player refuses to cooperate with anyone, is he playing against his wincon, or making it more difficult for the town to work together?

[SleepyKrew]

Actually I don't wanna keep going down this road because it sounds like I'm advocating shitty play.

[ika]

Actually I don't wanna keep going down this road because it sounds like I'm advocating shitty play.

not really, i like this discussion i just feel like a lot of what we are talking about is debatable/gray area in the end.

if your still against it try something different

[quadz08]

Actually I don't wanna keep going down this road because it sounds like I'm advocating shitty play.

You're pointing out that sometimes good scum play looks just like bad town play

[Mr. Flay]

but when you take it to the main thing core element of someone going "FUCK THIS GAME IM PISSED SCREW YOU selfvote" as town its a player being clouded by emotions and they dont think logical.

Congratulations, you've just given scum cover to do this as well.

:ed: what quadz said.

[SleepyKrew]

Actually I don't wanna keep going down this road because it sounds like I'm advocating shitty play.

You're pointing out that sometimes good scum play looks just like bad town play

The problem is I'm saying the bad town player should be allowed to be bad. Not just bad. Really bad.
Guys plz don't be bad.

[Thor665]

then wouldnt logic dictate that selfvoting as scum is also against wincon? yes theres the argument of "cutting discussion from town" but in general sense. shouldnt they try to fight their lynch like you are saying town should do?

what makes it so diffrent that its anti-wincon for scums to do that?

There is a difference between playing the game poorly and refusing to play. I am okay with the idea that scum should not have as an option 'faking refusing to play' in their repertoire.

sk did also kinda adress it as well on mod intervention: mod/hosts should not intervene with players quarrels unless if its absolutely needed if every player that went against wincon was forced replaced (or even worse, modkilled) its no longer really maifa and its more of "how long till we get a new replacement" imo

Then they should take it out of site rules. Though this is starting to veer away from the purpose of this thread.

if we banned/replaced every player that went anti-wincon b/c they got emotional rilled or had some rl thing that made them play illogical/anti-wincon, i would say we would never have a player base again.

I disagree. I actually find the players with legit emotional breakdowns to be few and far between.

there are many situations that are gray when it comes to what is anti-wincon vs bad player vs irrational plays

Agreed.
But please read what SK is asking me about and then come back and explain to me how it is a gray area.

pedit: so if a scum does nothing except vote/prod dodge/says "busy do later" is that actually anti-wincon or just scum procrastination? i think theres too many gray areas on many tings like this tbh

That sounds like good scum play to me, and also doesn't sound like refusing to play the game.

If they stop playing the game then they are playing against wincon regardless of alignment.

If a scum player refuses to cooperate with anyone, is he playing against his wincon, or making it more difficult for the town to work together?

That, again, sounds like fine scum play, though a good town should lynch that player fairly quickly if they have half a brain.

[Ankamius]

I like voting for myself in RVS.

[Thor665]

Do you think it helps in any way, or is it just as a 'lulz, joke!' sort of thing?

[Mr. Flay]

The proper response to "I give up, vote me" IS in fact to vote them. Anything else encourages the behavior.

[Bicephalous Bob]

you gotta play to win, not to make a point, right?

[Mr. Flay]

but when you take it to the main thing core element of someone going "FUCK THIS GAME IM PISSED SCREW YOU selfvote" as town its a player being clouded by emotions and they dont think logical.

Congratulations, you've just given scum cover to do this as well.

[Bicephalous Bob]

wasting a lynch on mafia principles is way more anti-town than showing people they can get away with self-voting