Mini 1646: Quil's Smalltown (Game over!)

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

ok reading now

@farside - how many games have you been NK'd as town in the first 2 night phases?

I like boo's post 87. I don't think scum would be bold enough to take encryptor so early

on the surface I like DV's post 115 but i am not necessarily sold that aronis is scum based on role selection.

reck's 123 made me lol

farside - why did you ask about pregame chat? what promoted you to ask that now?

vote: pine

[farside22]

I mean no one ask marquis why he picked his role. What could he say other then keep it from scum hands now that you gave him that response?

theoretically the best course of action is to make selection phase similar to an early day 1 and determine the towniest "good/threatening" player and give them encryptor so scum has to make the decision to kill a town pr or kill a threatening player but 1) i will only trust myself for a long while this game 2) it is absolutely critical that scum don't get encryptor in this setup and 3) i don't have to worry about my pr fucking things up/being tempted not to follow plans

contemplated coroner but doesn't matter as much as encryptor since scum lying about that result is basically just saying "yo can some1 crosskill me kthx"

same for cop

Not a very good point, Farside. I expect better from you.

Why do you think Pine is going to steal your role? Why do you think he'd be targeted for a nightkill tonight if you think he's scum and are voting him?

I forgot about that.



Pine comment I explained a bit in my theory about scum fearing me. Scum pine would steal it sine I suspect him.
Yes I'm voting him.

Is there a reason you did not awnser my post 161 questions.
Add to my questions are you town reading everyone on the aronis wagon?

@ marquis: I wasn't ignoring you I was judging your read on aronis. I don't think I've played with aronis when he was ever scum. So I'm not sure where your coming from but I felt your post was a good thought process.


@ Jake: recently or in general? If in general I tend to get Nk day 2 more often.

[farside22]

ok reading now

@farside - how many games have you been NK'd as town in the first 2 night phases?

I like boo's post 87. I don't think scum would be bold enough to take encryptor so early

on the surface I like DV's post 115 but i am not necessarily sold that aronis is scum based on role selection.

reck's 123 made me lol

farside - why did you ask about pregame chat? what promoted you to ask that now?

vote: pine

I'm thinking about aronis and how he picked his role. I think scum would just stick with their first choice.

Why the vote on pine?

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Jake: recently or in general? If in general I tend to get Nk day 2 more often.

OK, what about recently?

And can anyone else verify that?

As for pine, I've got a gut read on him, I feel he's under contributing and his last post about aronis looks like he's deciding if he should be opportustic or not

[DeasVail]

Farside, I think scum probably did communicate pre-game, but I don't think they necessarily would have been constantly in touch about what roles to choose.

Also, is there a reason why you disagree with the reasons that have been stated for townreading Boo?

Can't comment on anything else due to lack of time. Will be back later!

[Bookitty]

1. so why is this something you pointed out against aronis
2. like who? this is serious because I see more and more players who don't learn and still do bad things like not mafia is an example of lurking it up all game long and not caring.

I didn't answer these before because I honestly don't understand your point with either of them.

1. Taking ascetic and then giving the shortest answers possible to questions will likely get you lynched sooner or later. We were talking about Aronis, who took ascetic and then showed no signs of wanting to help town. I would have pointed it out about others, but it didn't apply to them.

2. Why is it relevant to this game whether I've seen people change up their playstyles, improve or produce standout performances? I think I've improved since I started. I think people can improve if they know what they do wrong. Yeah, there are lurkers and active lurkers; there are also GREAT players out there who improve all the time. Copper, for example, did something I've never seen before and basically won the game for scum just recently (game available on request). I really hope I've improved and learned from mistakes made in the past. I just don't get how your general pessimistic attitude toward Mafiascum players has anything to do with the specific case here.

What do YOU think should be done with an outed ascetic who can't be cleared by investigation and doesn't look like he wants to help town? I'd be really interested to know. Should we wait til LYLO to decide about that?

[Bookitty]

I had to look back at the votecount. No, I'm not especially townreading Flubbernugget or Reck; Flubber seems a lot more engaged than I've seen him as town (no scum meta on him) and Reck simply hasn't posted enough relevant content to know.

[Jingle]

Archivist on the other hand is almost certainly town. He watches Reck tonight, and if reck dies we lynch scum.

That isn't how my role works as I understand it.

You are the Archivist.

This means that along with your voice and your vote, you also possess the following special ability:

>>> Archives: Each Night you may nominate the current or a previous Night phase and a player.
You will be told who, if anyone, the nominated player targeted on the nominated Night phase.

Targeting Reck won't help. I'm essentially a tracker, not a watcher. HOWEVER, the good part is that if we can figure out a group of the most likely suspects, then I get two shots out of that group to see whodunnit; one where I'm basically on my own and one that can be directed by town since scum can't retroactively not be the one doing the kill. Like a do-over if I don't get it right the first time.

Goddammit. I don't know why I lost all sense of reading comprehension this game. I'm going to reread all of the setup shit tonight and hopefully I'll be able to not suck at the thing I'm best at tomorrow. Sorry guys.

[farside22]

1. so why is this something you pointed out against aronis
2. like who? this is serious because I see more and more players who don't learn and still do bad things like not mafia is an example of lurking it up all game long and not caring.

I didn't answer these before because I honestly don't understand your point with either of them.

1. Taking ascetic and then giving the shortest answers possible to questions will likely get you lynched sooner or later. We were talking about Aronis, who took ascetic and then showed no signs of wanting to help town. I would have pointed it out about others, but it didn't apply to them.

2. Why is it relevant to this game whether I've seen people change up their playstyles, improve or produce standout performances? I think I've improved since I started. I think people can improve if they know what they do wrong. Yeah, there are lurkers and active lurkers; there are also GREAT players out there who improve all the time. Copper, for example, did something I've never seen before and basically won the game for scum just recently (game available on request). I really hope I've improved and learned from mistakes made in the past. I just don't get how your general pessimistic attitude toward Mafiascum players has anything to do with the specific case here.

What do YOU think should be done with an outed ascetic who can't be cleared by investigation and doesn't look like he wants to help town? I'd be really interested to know. Should we wait til LYLO to decide about that?

Tbf I lost focus so I can't remember what I was thinking here.
As for the abilty I have a big issue with the idea of lynching a player just based on their role.
You keep bringing it up as a reason to lynch him rather then trying to figure him out.

@dv: I don't like boo's approach to aronis and the focus on the ability over and over is a big red flag.

@jake: I don't have exact stats on how often I've been Nk. I just know recently it's night 1 and I think a few times it was day 3.

[Bookitty]

@Farside: It is a role he chose. It is not a randomly assigned role. It's a role he chose EARLY.

My questions to Aronis are two-pronged, not just one as you're trying to imply.

His CHOICE of role is such that he should expect to come under suspicion for it, especially given his own stated reasoning behind choosing it. Choosing ascetic precludes any investigation to clear himself. It's a role that can't be allowed to go to LYLO. I think anyone with any experience with ascetic would know that it would be a role with an expiration date.

The part you're ignoring or dismissing is that he's not being helpful to town. He's not. You don't even have him as a townread. You said you don't have experience of his scum game. Yet you're making the meta defence to end all meta defences on his behalf, in essence saying that he always plays like that. You don't KNOW that. If he DOES play like that all the time, though, he's unhelpful to town. His role is not helpful to town. He's doing nothing to help himself and you're doing all the heavy lifting. I would expect this level of defence if he was your mason buddy; we know he's not, though. You don't even think he's town.

I don't see scum-Farside making this defence for scum-Aronis, though. It's more likely to me that scum-Farside would make this concerted defence of town-Aronis or possible SK-Aronis to try to drum up some towncred.

I know you think that asking questions without a real reason is scummy. So you should know I'd spot that right away.

VOTE: Farside

[farside22]

@Farside: It is a role he chose. It is not a randomly assigned role. It's a role he chose EARLY.

My questions to Aronis are two-pronged, not just one as you're trying to imply.

His CHOICE of role is such that he should expect to come under suspicion for it, especially given his own stated reasoning behind choosing it. Choosing ascetic precludes any investigation to clear himself. It's a role that can't be allowed to go to LYLO. I think anyone with any experience with ascetic would know that it would be a role with an expiration date.

The part you're ignoring or dismissing is that he's not being helpful to town. He's not. You don't even have him as a townread. You said you don't have experience of his scum game. Yet you're making the meta defence to end all meta defences on his behalf, in essence saying that he always plays like that. You don't KNOW that. If he DOES play like that all the time, though, he's unhelpful to town. His role is not helpful to town. He's doing nothing to help himself and you're doing all the heavy lifting. I would expect this level of defence if he was your mason buddy; we know he's not, though. You don't even think he's town.

I don't see scum-Farside making this defence for scum-Aronis, though. It's more likely to me that scum-Farside would make this concerted defence of town-Aronis or possible SK-Aronis to try to drum up some towncred.

I know you think that asking questions without a real reason is scummy. So you should know I'd spot that right away.

VOTE: Farside

Your attacking his role choice.
That's all I read from the above. Then you attack him for not towning it up. Now I'm being attacked for your bs theory.

Fasinating
Let's chalk off everything you ignored
1). The wagon on aronis went quickly
2) you stated you were not town reading everyone on the wagon but still pushing the wagon
3) you attacked aronis role prove above
4) I don't do indepth meta research, you know this from our previous game.

Vote: bookitty

[farside22]

Kitty also ignored that since I've seen aronis lynched in previous games as town is be wary of a quick wagon in him and look at those on the wagon.
Again said this game.

[Bookitty]

1). The wagon on aronis went quickly
2) you stated you were not town reading everyone on the wagon but still pushing the wagon
3) you attacked aronis role prove above
4) I don't do indepth meta research, you know this from our previous game.

1. The wagon stalled at four. I never joined it. I questioned him to find out what he was thinking; this is what you objected to from me. Should I not have questioned him? What was wrong with that, exactly?

2. I'm not scumreading them either. I feel a bit hinky about Flubber and Reck isn't posting content; I don't have reads there. The other two I have as town so far.

3. Of course I attacked his role. YOU semi-attacked Marquis's role by complaining that a) I was feeding him reasons for choosing it (proven false) and b) pointing out how it's useful to scum. His role choice is part of reading someone in THIS game. Why are you trying to pretend it's not?

4. You are using NOTHING but meta to defend Aronis so this is completely disingenuous. Talking about what you've seen in previous games IS meta, so stop pretending you don't use it. The only other argument you have boils down to "You're picking on him for choosing the role he chose! OMG, the horror of it."

I'm not wild about the questions you've asked the mod, either. Your questions about discussions before the game looks like nothing but an excuse made for Aronis, who is still not a townread for you, right? And the question about stealing your role is nonsensical too -- if Pine DID steal your role, something I seriously doubt would happen given the roles in this game, you'd have his. It's a swap, remember?

This is not town Farside as I know her. What did you do with her?

[farside22]

I'm not using meta to defend aronis.
I'm saying what I've seen happen in other games.
Also I don't by the 180 degree read from boo about aronis.

[Bookitty]

What 180 degree read?

I'd really like that explained, too.

He's scummy as hell. Your defending him in the way you have makes me think he must be town; otherwise your behaviour is completely inexplicable.

Could you define meta for me, please? Because I don't think it means what you think it means. Not that I know what you think it means from your postings here.

[Quilford]

• 
  
  Vote count 1.6
  
  
  Aronis (4)— DeasVail, Marquis, Flubbernugget, xRECKONERx
  farside22 (3)— Jingle, Pine, Bookitty
  Pine (2)— Grib, Jake from State Farm
  Jingle (2)— Shiidaji, Antihero
  Bookitty (1)— farside22
  
  Not Voting (1)— Aronis
  
  It takes 7 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Day 1 will be 10 days long. It ends in (expired on 2015-02-24 21:15:09).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Remember, you can request an updated Role PM containing your selected role's info any time you like, as detailed in the Setup post.

[Marquis]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

[Bookitty]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Talk to me about this, please.

[farside22]

What 180 degree read?

I'd really like that explained, too.

He's scummy as hell. Your defending him in the way you have makes me think he must be town; otherwise your behaviour is completely inexplicable.

Could you define meta for me, please? Because I don't think it means what you think it means. Not that I know what you think it means from your postings here.

Meta in regards to how a player plays.
I'm saying what I see when I've played with aronis as far as people that pushed his lynch.
That's not meta on aronis that's looking at games and seeing if it's the same situation.

Example dv point reads town I have nothing from reck or Flubber based on saying nothing and I see you wanting to vote.

The 180 is you called him town in that post you voted me. Is he scum again or is he sk?

You keep pushing me defending him where I'm looking at things from a different prospective, which you've ignored.
Your the one bringing up meta and his role.
That's all you sweetie.

Are you going to really sit there and say you've never questioned a wagon on a player that you've seen lynched as town repeatedly?

[farside22]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Et to bruta

[farside22]

1). The wagon on aronis went quickly
2) you stated you were not town reading everyone on the wagon but still pushing the wagon
3) you attacked aronis role prove above
4) I don't do indepth meta research, you know this from our previous game.

1. The wagon stalled at four. I never joined it. I questioned him to find out what he was thinking; this is what you objected to from me. Should I not have questioned him? What was wrong with that, exactly?

2. I'm not scumreading them either. I feel a bit hinky about Flubber and Reck isn't posting content; I don't have reads there. The other two I have as town so far.

3. Of course I attacked his role. YOU semi-attacked Marquis's role by complaining that a) I was feeding him reasons for choosing it (proven false) and b) pointing out how it's useful to scum. His role choice is part of reading someone in THIS game. Why are you trying to pretend it's not?

4. You are using NOTHING but meta to defend Aronis so this is completely disingenuous. Talking about what you've seen in previous games IS meta, so stop pretending you don't use it. The only other argument you have boils down to "You're picking on him for choosing the role he chose! OMG, the horror of it."

I'm not wild about the questions you've asked the mod, either. Your questions about discussions before the game looks like nothing but an excuse made for Aronis, who is still not a townread for you, right? And the question about stealing your role is nonsensical too -- if Pine DID steal your role, something I seriously doubt would happen given the roles in this game, you'd have his. It's a swap, remember?

This is not town Farside as I know her. What did you do with her?

Missed this.

1) I never stopped you from asking him questions at all.
2) okay so you are comfortable voting on the wagon then?
3) I used that as a counter point to you. It was wrong soooo...?
4) your whole issue is his role. If not can you link to me what else you find scummy?

[Marquis]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Et to bruta

clarify because either you're using this wrong orrr

[Bookitty]

I have no meta on Aronis, Farside. I don't think I have ever played with him at all. I haven't researched it either.

Meta refers to past experience of a player regardless of how it was acquired. I have meta experience with you but I haven't gone through all your games to see if you act just the same way here as everywhere else. Personal meta exists and is a thing, but you seem to exclude that from consideration and claim it doesn't have anything to do with meta. Why are you doing that?

Most of your ire has been directed at me for daring to question Aronis to try to figure out his alignment. I think you're savvy enough to know that a non-helpful player with a negative utility role is going to get wagoned in a game with choice about roles and public knowledge of them. I don't understand why you're going out of your way to try to discredit me by throwing everything you can find at me, true or not.

If someone gets lynched as town repeatedly, they are acting scummy. If you've never seen his scumgame, as you have asserted, you don't know what that looks like. Marquis has a different view on Aronis meta than you do, but you haven't thrown a screaming fit at him. So, I'm going to ask you straight out:

Do you think Marquis is scum? Why or why not?
Who are the scum on Aronis's wagon, in your opinion?
Why is or was Pine scum?

[Jingle]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Et to bruta

clarify because either you're using this wrong orrr

In fairness, she's using it wrong regardless. The Latin is in fact "Et tu, Brute?"