Micro 640: Perfect Cherry Blossom (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

also @DLA, to expand further on a few things:

I fucking hate when people refuse to interact with me because "you're scum, I'll interact with other people about you but I won't interact with you". it's a bad mindset that doesn't lead to clear discussion. what you did to him was basically exactly that, and when he asked you what you thought of his Wisdom vote you continued doing it.

him taking issue with it isn't malicious, it's the correct reaction. also, on his Wisdom read: "he's much more lazy as town" is a premise that I think is thoroughly wrong, but as far as actually forming reads goes, "he's much more lazy as town thus I think his reaction to my 'lynch' was a forced attempt to look town" isn't much of a logical leap at all and ignoring the timing of his vote or whether it was done in RVS or not, I'm interested in what you think about his actual reasoning, too.

[pieguyn]

Actually before I go to sleep, Pie what scum games of mine have you read? I can only think of borderlands Mafia which idk if that counts for anything considering it was secret bastard and multiball.

mostly out of curiosity, what was the point of this line of questioning, btw?

[beeboy]

Actually before I go to sleep, Pie what scum games of mine have you read? I can only think of borderlands Mafia which idk if that counts for anything considering it was secret bastard and multiball.

mostly out of curiosity, what was the point of this line of questioning, btw?

I forgot about both those games for whatever reason and was just curious. I didn't really plan on getting anything out of your answer.

[beeboy]

my problem with you is that you're a player who, as scum, finds it difficult to fake reasonable reads/thought processes, and as such, when you're scum, your reads can often end up being completely ridiculous. there are points when you can do OK at it, but in my experience with you whenever you're scum you rely on people town reading you for "genuineness" or "newbtown" and ignoring what the reasoning behind your reads actually is, and as such at some point or another you can't keep up faking good reads, but to the contrary, if you're making actual good points that are reasonable I take it as a pretty good sign that you're town (which is how I got the early read on you I had in magical girl game).

I think you are forgetting the part where as town I tend to have incredibly shallow thought processes especially early on. Like if you read summer waltz or badass women Mafia that shouldn't be a hard conclusion to come to especially considering we are on page 7 in a micro I don't think me only having 4 reads is particularly out of the ordinary.
Just so you know the 4 reads are the 2 reads I mentioned earlier and I read you as town for your read on me and I have a gut town read on Luna because I don't think a scum Luna would tie herself to me through a mason claim.

now let's apply this to your play here... so far, all you've done has been shit-posting. even outside of the fact that your initial argument against me wasn't serious, your only scum read has been me, because of the way you were shit-posting and my reaction to it, which is a really poor reason that has no depth to it. you haven't done any scum hunting or attempted to form any scum reads outside of this.

We are on page 7 in a micro.

your two town reads were DLA for gut and Edos for "being the first person who tried to do things this game", which while there isn't anything glaringly bad about it, both of these town reads are really easy and again have no depth to them, which doesn't give me any reason to question my assessment of the rest of your posts

We are still on page 7 in a micro.

so, in general, I'm seeing your "fake claim mason and shitpost the entire game" approach here as something you'd do as scum as a crutch to generate reasonable-sounding content, and I don't think you're forming reads in a compelling way like you do when you're town. hence why if you're town I want you to quit playing like this and actually play the game seriously.

I wanted to see how Luna and the people in this game would react to it. Like I wasn't doing it purely for the shits and giggles.

[beeboy]

also in magical girl Mafia the post you town read me for was a post where I was discussing the setup and not reads so I feel as though what you where saying about that game is meh.

[pieguyn]

it's page 7 in a micro, but this is a pretty information-heavy game, so I'd expect that by now you'd have more than just vague gut reads. what do you think of my points on Edos and Vedith?

why don't you think that a scum Luna would play along with you fake claiming mason with her? I'm not exactly sure why you think that the fake mason claim would result in her "tying herself to you", given... it's a fake claim and all. it strikes me as something she'd do for fun regardless of her alignment.

[beeboy]

it's page 7 in a micro, but this is a pretty information-heavy game, so I'd expect that by now you'd have more than just vague gut reads. what do you think of my points on Edos and Vedith?

why don't you think that a scum Luna would play along with you fake claiming mason with her? I'm not exactly sure why you think that the fake mason claim would result in her "tying herself to you", given... it's a fake claim and all. it strikes me as something she'd do for fun regardless of her alignment.

I would not say this is an information heavy game, half this game is shitty mason discussion.

Your points on Edo felt meh, he moved his vote in RVS without much thought or reason I don't see that as something that is odd.
I agree with the what you said about the Vedith case being weak although I am not town reading him nor was I ever scum reading him so still null.

My Luna and Edos town reads are pretty weak so it isn't something I am concerned about in all honesty my reads will develop as they provide more content. I think potentially pissing abunch of people off isn't something you would want to do as scum, you are right she wouldn't tie herself to me tho idk why I said that. But I still want to believe Luna is town for the first part. Like I said it is a weak read I am aware of the flaws in what I am saying.

[pieguyn]

Your points on Edo felt meh, he moved his vote in RVS without much thought or reason I don't see that as something that is odd.

I believe his votes on both me and Vedith were serious, not RVS.

I don't agree that Luna wouldn't do it as scum, but w/e.

[Wisdom]

and I have a gut town read on Luna because I don't think a scum Luna would tie herself to me through a mason claim.

I dont see why not

I mean if i was scum and you claimed masons with me for the lulz id play along

[Wisdom]

pie feels a little off compared to magical girl mafia but it might just be me

[zMuffinMan]

I think you're town

oh, gee, that's so nice of you. i want you to know i took a photograph of this post and framed it on my wall, so that i'll always remember this day

when do you think you'll get around to talking about why you think your town reads are town?

anyone thinking Edo as town is boosted

i don't think edosurist has done anything particularly town but he also hasn't really done anything that makes me think he's scum, so eh

[zMuffinMan]

My initial vote on pie was just cuz !!wagons!!, but then this made it serious.

Are you not interested by my vote?

I am, I'd just rather watch and observe what shakes out of it by itself than going out of my way to question it.

if you want to explain it then by all means go ahead.

i thought #32 was an awkward post, mostly because it looked reactive (in an "oh, shit, i should have said something about that!" kind of way)

otoh, beeboy's reason for voting pie was a pretty fucking shit reason

[zMuffinMan]

it also has a very appeasey feel to it, if that's a word (and if it isn't, it should be)

[zMuffinMan]

I find that a lot of the time if I start jumping at shit in RVS it does nothing but cause a huge distraction... I find it equally as effective for my own reads to just wait until people start doing things I find significantly alignment-indicative

since when? my impression of you has always been that you like to be in the centre, generating discussion. i don't think i've ever seen you take a back seat

his read on Wisdom is hilariously wrong

does this mean you're town-reading wisdom?

[zMuffinMan]

However, he explains his vote as being based in the more recent fake-hammer. To me this seems opportunistic, like he's looking for scummy behavior to justify his vote rather than scum.

i don't really think it's all the strange for a player's initial joke read to develop into something more serious, so this seems pretty weak

e.g. everyone who voted pieguy in the early pages (including yourself) said it was initially a joke that turned into something more serious (albeit, early pages and nothing super strong)

Or me: he accuses me of rolefishing in 66, and ignores it until after the whole L-1 thingy, when he picks up on my scent again.

Note this, it's important:

he initially doesn't care about my response, but after he's pressured, he asks me to justify me vote on him. I respond, and suddenly he sees me as scummy. To me it seems like he's justifying his suspicion of me (He says "The only reason that my vote isn't going on you instead of Wisdom now is because Wisdom's fake reaction to my lynch.") with the rolefishing post... Read through his posts there, 66-97, there's nothing to change his opinion? Is he threatening to vote me because of 96? That's a weak reason if I ever heard one.

my impression of the whole thing was vedith going back and looking at who was voting him, seeing your vote, questioning you about it and deciding he didn't like the way you responded to him (96)

i thought the fishing thing was more in jest than a serious accusation anyway

i dont really think vedith is scum

[zMuffinMan]

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

[zMuffinMan]

ok i just realised pieguy said almost exactly what i said in #173 but i'm just going to pretend that pieguy is sheeping me

[zMuffinMan]

I would not say this is an information heavy game, half this game is shitty mason discussion.

yeah, fuck, sorry about that - that's completely the rest of the game's fault, they're so dumb for continually making you repeat "why are you questioning a mason?", "why are you voting a mason?", etc instead of playing the game

pie feels a little off compared to magical girl mafia but it might just be me

she feels more aggressive than i'm used to her being

not sure what to make of it so far, so i'm kind of just waiting to see where she goes from here

[Luna Fox]

Tbh i wasn't really sure of how to react to the masons fake claim, it caught me off guard, but i thought if I played along with it, it would increase the chances of being NK'd N1.

when do you think you'll get around to talking about why you think your town reads are town?

Probably when 1) People ask me about them and 2) When i have time to explain them.

[beeboy]

I think Zmuffin and Pie have both asked you to explain them but maybe I am just seeing things.

[Wisdom]

DLA I am not a mason with Luna btw just so you can scum hunt normally.

wow, what a shocking turn of events. did not see that coming

VOTE: luna

[Wisdom]

Quote was irrelevant

[DarkLightA]

also @DLA, to expand further on a few things:

I fucking hate when people refuse to interact with me because "you're scum, I'll interact with other people about you but I won't interact with you". it's a bad mindset that doesn't lead to clear discussion. what you did to him was basically exactly that, and when he asked you what you thought of his Wisdom vote you continued doing it.

Yes, absolutely. Of course you shouldn't shut down someone because you think they're scum, quite the opposite. In an ideal world you would follow through on all topics. Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal.

When a player isn't under pressure and I get a scumread, I will make a case. I will do so to persuade the other players that I am correct. If the person I am accusing wants to refute it, so be it, they are welcome to. If I am joining an established wagon, I will not make as strong a case, as a case already tends to exist in the gameplay. The precise problem I have with the way Vedith did it is that he said: "DLA - Go through this."

...

"DLA - Go through this."

...

And with that, I am summoned to make a great big case to the person I think is scum about why they are scum. See, I have a limited amount of time to dedicate to the game, and I'd rather spend it on developing reads and challenging different people than to explain to the person that I think is scum why I think they are scum. If they disagree with what I state, that's fine! Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me why I am wrong. But when they're being challenged as hard as Vedith, it is my opinion that I shouldn't have to be summoned to defend my stance like that.

him taking issue with it isn't malicious, it's the correct reaction. also, on his Wisdom read: "he's much more lazy as town" is a premise that I think is thoroughly wrong, but as far as actually forming reads goes, "he's much more lazy as town thus I think his reaction to my 'lynch' was a forced attempt to look town" isn't much of a logical leap at all and ignoring the timing of his vote or whether it was done in RVS or not, I'm interested in what you think about his actual reasoning, too.

I don't think that's what he's saying. I did misinterpret it completely at first which is why I thought he was contradicting himself, but after post 3 I understand it as that if Wisdom were town, he would see the L-1 and ignore it, rather than verifying it by counting votes and proceeding with the fake-lynch.

[DarkLightA]

Also @pie, I forgot to respond to the thing about vedith's questioning of his wisdom vote. In that case I was going down a line of questioning trying to find out if he actually believed in his vote. In that case what I thought of wisdom was highly irrelevant and counterproductive to the questioning.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Luna