Mini 1668 - Mafia in Bremen - Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks, I'm trying!

I wasn't exactly town reading Havoc, I proposed better lynches - Elyse or Rev. I wanted Havoc to be replaced and then Jeanne to produce more content before I committed.

You realize my lynch pool consisted of Elyse, Rev and Jake right? Like, we would have won the game had I been allowed to live and we did this?

[Rune]

If you say so.

@Oversoul just pm me.
@Elyse it would be nice to play again.

[Oversoul]

BBT was a terrible kill, and I think a very unlikely candidate for PR hunting. He was likely killed because he said he wanted to lynch Elyse. This isn't actually a threat to Elyse and if I were her I would have killed Jake (if not partner).
Oversoul/me was a terrible kill. Scum were the only ones with confirmed knowledge of Oversoul's alignment. Everyone else was against him. This kill only benefits Reverend since he was actually the optimal kill. But, since I don't care about Reverend's alignment, I choose to believe that Oversoul was just a bad kill. I don't think Elyse would have made this mistake.

I want to talk about this!
Specifically, the Oversoul kill.

BBT/Rune

, scum *did* try to kill Rune the night that I died. I simply intercepted the kill. So, take that for what you will. Anyway, with that information in mind...

I agree with you almost 100%. As a mafia member, I would have never attempted to kill Oversoul outright or Rune outright. I would have settled for Rev hoping to get the mislynch on Oversoul. Sure, Rev may not have been doing much but the sheer amount of people against at that point in the game was astonishing. Axe at any point in the game would have been a very bad kill (sorry Axe but you were trolling so a net positive for the mafia). Hell, I would have even killed Palkia to make sure Elyse was safer during the day.

As Oversoul the bodyguard, I was *so* close to protecting Reverend for literally the same exact thinking haha. I almost submitted the Rev protection that night but I am glad I did not in the end. I was going for a super high level meta protection on Rev predicting scum to behave the exact same way that you thought they should behave.

I find it so interesting that you and I had very similar thoughts during the game despite you eating my dick all game (even if it was trumped up to protect yourself)

I don't necessarily agree with that by the way. By trumping up your read on me, and potentially accurately catching another one or two members of the mafia team, like you did with Havoc, could have implicitly framed me which would not have been good.

I do like your style of play. Reminds me of other good players like Fate, AngryPidgeon, Faraday, etc. I hope you do stay! The general quality of games is something of a hit or miss nowadays, but if you selectively choose which games to play in, you might have a better time.

I can't in good faith justify the double target on Axe. I could have excused Roleblock into a Cop investigation, but Cop into a Roleblock was sloppy, especially since we only had one flipped mafia at that point. With 2 two dead mafia, depending on the roles, Roleblock is one of, if not the most, powerful roles.

@Oversoul I think I would enjoy playing a full game with you. You replaced a really useless player and with the PB counterwagon (the most ridiculous counterwagon ever for 2 PR and 1 VT) there was really very little chance that I would play amicably with you this game.

I think this is where you played a little too rigid with this principle in mind. Sure, it looks bad, but on this site scum seldom try to make themselves look like targets. That was initially why I did not want to go after Palkia. That is why I went after HI (knowing I was town). Unless Palkia hammers, regardless of alignment, it isn't a scum-tell. He should be vigged N1 in every single game moving forward, but that is neither here nor there.

I think if Palkia waited a few days to hammer, things would have been different and this game probably would have been much better. Oh well.
But seriously, sometimes you have to explore possibilities beyond the scope of strict principles.

Similarly, having a crumb for a PR doesn't help you at all as town. Scum could do it just as easily. If it is an obvious crumb, you are likely to get NK. If it isn't an obvious crumb, then if you claimed another role nobody would refer to the crumb to contradict you... so all it shows is that you planned to claim that specific role, but only after you claim and show everyone it was there in the first place. I see absolutely no advantage to town in doing this.

I also think you could have been a lot more subtle about asking for townreads at the end of D2.

Fair. Never approached in that way with how scummy it could actually look.
I was taught that crumbs = life as PR if you were put under a lot of pressure. Since I am a naturally scummy player, crumbs are how I legitimize myself when I am forced to claim. Plus it helps put an immediate end to any counterclaim or beliefs that "Oversoul made a convenient claim" if I can show people I have been playing the entire game with a specific role in mind.

Axe, what was with the fake guilty on Saint? lol

Tbh I don't think Elyse played poorly as scum at all. I think her tell was mainly that she was obviously trying way harder than her posting indicated. She may have sheeped me just a little bit too much, but it's an easy thing to do when it involves comments on suboptimal play. If town was stronger I think she would have made more obvious slips.

Agreed. Even if HI shot Jake, I don't think Elyse would have lost this game. She played a solid scum game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I was 100% positive Elyse was scum when I did a reread during day 3.

Too bad I couldn't do anything about it.

[Oversoul]

What was with the RC kill night 1? I didn't understand that at all. I would have killed Rune that night if I was scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol at this shit town.

Jake staY off this site.
Elyse gg even though town did all the work for you.

would you like some tequila with that salt?

Where's my offer?

[Elyse]

Mostly because everyone was townreading him, it made the people on the PB wagon look worse, and I think he could have turned on me had the game progressed.

I also wanted to kill Rev instead of Oversoul, but Jake didn't and I understood why. Lynching a PR would have been difficult with no other PR claims.

[RadiantCowbells]

Where is my goddamn tequila though I drank all mine yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well I was scumreading Oversoul and got cold feet on the Havoc lynch overnight so it's probably good that I died when I did.

[Rune]

@Oversoul I used Doctor on Rev N3, which would have avoided LYLO. I'm really happy you didn't protect him, (I was hoping you would know I had doctor) as if I died Elyse would have been able to destroy you.

Cop on Axe N1 was suboptimal (you were my second choice) and I knew that when I sent in the action. I did it because I was unfamiliar with the setups for a Normal game and didn't want to wait until later to use it. Also, Axe is a much better player than he showed here, and could be very dangerous. Roleblock on Axe N2 was the correct move, as scum I think I would have been his N2 kill. Doctor on Rev N3 was also correct.

@Elyse I'm glad to know that I was right in thinking you as scum would want to kill Rev. I was hoping my stance on oversoul going into D4 would make scum think he would be an easy lynch.

[Rune]

@Elyse, yes RC was a good kill. Why BBT though? Whose idea was it?

[Rune]

@Oversoul:

A crumb would be useful for a counterclaim, so I suppose there is that.

[Elyse]

The BBT kill was rushed. Jake mentioned it, I didn't really check the scum topic until late into the night, and neither of us had the time to really think about the kill.

I didn't really want to change the gamestate at all because I liked how things were going for us, and killing someone like BBT who was mostly white noise maintained the direction the game was going on. (Until the twilight of the HI lynch)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

and killing someone like BBT who was mostly white noise

This is exactly why I thought I had no chance of dying.

[Nikanor]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61667 - Graveyard
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61666 - Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=61665 - Mod

[Prolapsed Brain]

I think Prolapsed Brain is an alt of a serial lurker that I can legitimately never read correctly. Up until this game, I am pretty sure I have never played with Prolapsed Brain before, yet in twilight of his death he claimed meta knowledge of my play style. If you are who I think you are, I am sorry. Post less sporadically!

Oversoul, PB is an alt of The Bulge.

Fascinating how so many people think I'm an alt.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know you're an alt.

You told me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You said you had modded with me and maybe played with me.

I believe it was Robbery at the Casino.

[Elyse]

and killing someone like BBT who was mostly white noise

This is exactly why I thought I had no chance of dying.

To be fair, we also thought you were a difficult mislynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/7asTj8kaCwY

Right here PB, near the beginning of the Day.

PEdit - I thought I was ripe for some targeting after my actions towards the Jeanne lynch. I just didn't see a way I would be killed.

[Prolapsed Brain]

I know you're an alt.

You told me.

....oops

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Now, you finally ready to admit you're The Bulge?

[Prolapsed Brain]

I ADMIT NOTHING

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Haha, fair enough.

I'm happy with you knowing that I know.

[The Bulge]

Wait wtf lmao