Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Garmr]

Tierce you forgot the smiley face

[Wake1]

Are you going to agree with me on anything I did in this game, Tierce?

[Infinity 324]

I kept screaming that.

Agree with wake on this one.

Again, all you need to do is convince.

PEdit: Yes, a gambit does not count as persuasion.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mason QT link added

[Tierce]

Are you going to agree with me on anything I did in this game, Tierce?

I did not read the full game and I'm not here for flattery, otherwise I'd be congratulating the scum team more thoroughly.


Eventually, Garmr. When this thread moves elsewhere~

[Wake1]

I want to know what I did right in this game, so I can put it on steroids.

Please help me, guys.

[pirate mollie]

It's not "emulating". You don't have to

look

obvTown, you have to

be

it. Pretense will get you nowhere. If that's not your style, forcing it won't work.

There are lots of competent Town players that are emotional. Heck, look at fferyllt. Logic alone won't win games, because human beings can and occasionally do defy logic, plus you don't have all the elements while a game is ongoing to make completely unequivocal logical decisions.

But analyzing the game with a clear head without preconceptions of alignments or without making arguments to

win

(which is what you did with fferyllt, you wanted to get her lynched regardless of her alignment), but instead arguing to

figure out alignments

and moving on smoothly once you've figured alignments out--that is a good start.

If you're not using anything you get back from your questions, you're asking pointless questions and need to focus on what is actually alignment-revealing instead. Having no followup looks scummy and just increases the noise.


And no, you should not have fakeclaimed to get ICEninja lynched. Even if you got him lynched, it would have been a fluke and you would have patted yourself on the back, called it a day, and tried it again in future games. Until you learn how to play Town

without

gambiting, you shouldn't be gambiting at all.

ahahaaha

fery is more emotional than me

[Infinity 324]

Something I just thought of and use but it never really becomes relevant often

I put a "red toads" after a reaction test so I can go back and say that it was a reaction test and people will believe me.

Wake: I put it somewhere earlier

Let me quote it.

[Infinity 324]

You put in a lot of effort, and tried doing what you do even when others disagreed with you.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry I have no idea where this is supposed to go.

What's the deal with sigs? Do you have to check the box to make them appear before every post? Why are they like that?

[ICEninja]

For the record, my personal attacks on Wake weren't particularly faked. I

despite

anyone who does this. I feel partially cheated out of my win because this was too easy. I really don't ever want to play with you again. Even if it worked, I would still rip in to someone's ass post game for risking everything based on some retarded gut feeling.

If you really want to gambit and get someone lynched, make the gambit, take it back, and if you still think they are scum make a case explaining why their reaction is scum and/or other reasons.

This is almost word for word what I was planning to say to Wake.

This.
I had issues with both of the other two but never so much as felt a scummy vibe from ICE - he was my boy, and he betrayed my sweet offerings of nuts with brutal betrayal!

Sorry <3

Hi Tierce. Loved your thoughts on this game, and agree with them.

I'll post my thoughts on everyone in a sec.

[Wake1]

You put in a lot of effort, and tried doing what you do even when others disagreed with you.

I appreciate that. I want to know what everyone thinks, especially SG and Ffery.

I screwed up with my gambit, but there's a lot I did that was beneficial, too.

[Cabd]

You need to work on your persuasive skills. Ramming lynches through with a gambit that is high-risk, low-reward is not the way to go, you don't yet have the skill to analyze the reactions you get, nor the sense of timing to figure out when a gambit needs to be cut.

Hi.

So I figured this is a good starting place to quote. I'm a player with about as many gambits to my name as completed games. There is certainly a niche for gambiting in townplay. It's a niche one has to be VERY careful exploiting. Wake's failure was not in launching the gambit; but in expecting the reactions to it to confiorm to one pre-conceived notion of what "town always reacts with"

[Infinity 324]

For the record, my personal attacks on Wake weren't particularly faked. I

despite

anyone who does this. I feel partially cheated out of my win because this was too easy. I really don't ever want to play with you again. Even if it worked, I would still rip in to someone's ass post game for risking everything based on some retarded gut feeling.

Ice it's a playstyle thing

It's about having different expectations and trying to play the entire game differently when switching sites.

Trust me when I say that there was a reasonable explanation for this

[Wake1]

I found this:

"Wake - Commitment to the role is just outrageous. All of his questions aren't boss-level inquiries but there's so many of them that dynamic quality is to be expected. The fact is that if he were to die his ISO would be a treasure trove and there's just no reason to leave that kind of trail as scum."

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/hkDDTAqPmVa

If I understand this correctly, what I was doing here helped Town. And this was performed with minimal energy on my part. It could be refined and enhanced, leaving a massive fucking treasure trove of information for Town in my games.

[Cabd]

Okay wake, fun fact. I've faked a cop result on ffery too, in the past. Want to guess why everyone is pissed at you and nobody is pissed at me? And no, the answer isn't that I was right.

[Infinity 324]

That did seem to be effective in gathering information

Also you should discuss your reads with your top townreads. This helps you share perspectives and you are more likely to be right that way. It will also probably make you more likable.

PEdit: You took it back?

[Wake1]

Okay wake, fun fact. I've faked a cop result on ffery too, in the past. Want to guess why everyone is pissed at you and nobody is pissed at me? And no, the answer isn't that I was right.

I'm not sure. You knew her meta?

[ICEninja]

First and foremost I would like to thank our esteemed mod. This game ran super smoothly, replacements were prompt, the setup was enjoyable, the space pictures on the VCs (and the frequency of VCs) were awesome. 10/10 would play in your games again.

Secondly, I would like to extend a particular high 5 to my scum buddies. Fitz didn't play the strongest game ever but lurked what I felt was just the

perfect

amount. Not enough to be noticed for it, but enough to drop under the radar for people to forget about you and focus on lynchbait. Reg was number 1 here. I got Kid A lynched and gathered some town reads but this guy orchestrated everything. You were fantastic. Thank you for replacing in!

I feel like I should address Wake next. I've come back with a cooler head (after being legitimately upset at your actions, I'm serious that wasn't faked, just don't do things like that ever) I have a few suggestions for you. Look at how I got Kid A lynched. That's pretty much exactly what you need to do as town. I worked with people, I prodded people's reasoning for disagreeing with me, I kept in everyone's mind that this guy needed rope, and

most importantly of all

I presented clear and powerful and legitimate reasons why he is more likely to be scum than town. Just because I was scum pushing a mislynch didn't mean my push on him wasn't solid. If I was town I would have came to the exact same conclusion. Just try to take a look at my day 2 play, at how I worked with people who thought I was town, and I pushed people who I thought were town, to work together. I actually attempted this quite a lot during day 1, unsuccessfully. Which frustrated me, so I get where you're coming for, but it happens. You don't always get your way in mafia.

Ffery (and to a lesser extent, Emp) was very strong this game. You guys misread myself and Reg, but you were entirely unlynchable, and you were frustratingly VT. It was risky to use a night kill on you so when Wake came and shut you down that was basically a godsend for us. We would have had to leave SG alive, which was NOT what we wanted. I have to say I really did feel legitimately bad for you. I haven't read the dead QT yet but I asked mod to send you hugs from us.

Speaking of Nutsy McSexytail, you are fun to play with and had a good game. Some reads were off, but not all of them. I laughed more than once reading your posts. Better luck next time!

Garmr you definitely played strong town, but your reads (no offense) were awful. I was super happy to keep you around as long as possible because I was pretty sure you'd win for us in lylo. You definitely gave off megatown vibes though and you were also going to be REALLY hard to lynch.

Herself played quite well. It was unfortunate for you that you were the N1 kill, but that was largely because you were right. I think you had all 3 scums pegged at one point or another during day 1. The fact that we flipped a mason night 1 was largely instrumental in our easy victory. Out of everyone I'd say you probably had the #1 strongest town play, and were unfortunately punished for it.

Kid A, I actually forgot my role PM when I was putting my case together on you because I believed it so thoroughly. No offense man but this wasn't your best game. I'd suggest going through and reading my push against you because it is

exactly

what I would have done as town. I even started looking through your play to see if I could figure out who your scum buddies were before I mega facepalmed.

LolWagons/Penguin was also probably just as strong as Herself this game. Boy that mason team...you guys could have won the game for town if you didn't pull 2 bullets so early. Reg, being brilliant as he is, was quite confident you were the second mason. I just wanted you dead because penguin's reads were fucking spot on. *Shiver* you scared me. Well played.

MME you were the most difficult push I had. I didn't believe in my case against you at all and it was BY FAR the most forced. Out of all of the non power players, I'd give you the honorable mention of being town's best played. You certainly were the strongest of the endgamed players, and I want to commend you for that. Your day 2 play was so ridiculously town it hurt to notice that I had my vote on you.

In regards to TSB, I honestly don't remember a lot about you. Your reads were pretty off so I wanted to keep you around, but the wagon on you wasn't to be turned. Sorry you got lynched so quick after joining the game though, that's always a bummer. Better luck next time!

TvK honestly I don't think your play was that bad. You were the second most fabricated scum read I had. If you were a stronger presence in game I think town would have actually had a much better chance to take this game home. Don't feel bummed about this game, I promise it wasn't on you.

And to those of you who left some commentary on this game, I've agreed with pretty much everything you guys have said. It's always nice to have some 3rd party perspective on things!

[Wake1]

That did seem to be effective in gathering information

Also you should discuss your reads with your top townreads. This helps you share perspectives and you are more likely to be right that way. It will also probably make you more likable.

PEdit: You took it back?

Thank you.

I'm going to try discussing my reads with my top Townreads, too. I never really did that, because there was always the feeling that Scum is going to be the top Townreads in Mafia in general.

Took what back? (Sorry, I don't know what you're referring to.)

[Cabd]

Wrong to both of your guesses.

First, yes, it was my own read of her slot as town that caused me to fakeclaim an innocent on her. However, this is why gambits can work, I weighed the risks of being wrong. I didn't spring a guilty tunnel the day before lylo; where being incorrect means a game loss.

If you go run my wiki; I gambit tons.


The difference between you and I wake, when it comes to gambits, is that I know what i'm doing, whereas you're just running through the motions. Your gambit was rigid; mine are fluid.

[Garmr]

Garmr you definitely played strong town, but your reads (no offense) were awful. I was super happy to keep you around as long as possible because I was pretty sure you'd win for us in lylo. You definitely gave off megatown vibes though and you were also going to be REALLY hard to lynch.

I know my reads suck. But this why I'm good at scum I'm like a cockroach I'm hard to kill.

[pirate mollie]

Yet it feels so one-sided.

I'm asked to work, hear, help, cooperate, consider, everything with the team, yet I don't get the same in turn.

Isn't cooperation supposed to be a two-way street?

you have to hear them as much as you want to be heard.

and then you have to learn to live with the "I told you sos".

like I am telling desp right now in this thread that I told him that ice was scum on d1 and was leaning reggie cos no way could street, reggie and us not lynch scum on d1 if we were all town.

and I suppose it says something compromising.

[Claus]

Hey! Nice game! I am a friend of MME and was espectating.

Very nice job ICE! I had Regfan as very possible scum (he smelled like Yossarian), but I'm not sure I would have been able to catch you.

I want to know what I did right in this game, so I can put it on steroids.

Please help me, guys.

I used to play a few years ago, so my site meta may be a bit off but I used to be a much stronger town than scum player in the day. So here are my two cents.

Start taking some blame (and no, you are not, you are still trying to blame town for not cooperating with you). You fucked up. Don't try to "look for a silver lining" in your play. You only need one thing: humility. You are asking everyone to see what you did good, but did you stop to see where other people did good? Or, heavens forbid, what they did better than you?

The entire game you were playing by yourself. You complain that you cannot be a team player if people don't help you out. Guess what: to get sympathy, you need to FIRST GIVE sympathy. To get help, you need to FIRST GIVE HELP. Damn, working at health care I would think you would have this down.

So stop trying to think what is this great thing that make you an unique town hero, and start thinking how you can HELP other players. Think about what YOU can do to work together with them. Stop demanding, start giving.

Good luck!

[Infinity 324]

Kid A, I actually forgot my role PM when I was putting my case together on you because I believed it so thoroughly. No offense man but this wasn't your best game. I'd suggest going through and reading my push against you because it is

exactly

what I would have done as town. I even started looking through your play to see if I could figure out who your scum buddies were before I mega facepalmed.

I thought Kid A was obvtown lol

How do you do this shit though

You were sooooo gooooood