Open 429: True Love (Game Over)

[Bitmap]

PMyst town game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22693

I thought since the game just finished, it could be of some use.

[TeChNoWC]

PMyst town game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22693

I thought since the game just finished, it could be of some use.

A quick scan of this game suggests PMyst could be town. His play is SOMEWHAT similar here to there.

I still think there are some differences. At this stage I'm not going to shed light on those differences (gives him opportunity to adapt), but simply wait for more input from him. It's not telling enough with the limited input. He seemed to active lurk a lot in that game, though.

[citysnake]

Okay then.
We don't really need much out of PM, I don't think we'll get anywhere by asking him things.
Lynch PM today, me/city tomorrow.
Permission to hammer?

Oh no you don't! We are getting lynched today. If I had still had more votes than you, I would vote for myself. Since unvoting me you have voted for 2 other players. It looks like you're trying to distract everyone from our lynch.

Next, I want City's opinions on PM.

He's lurking and sitting on the fence with his reads. If Om and I both flip town, I think he'd be scum. If Om's scum I wouldn't be so sure- it could just be that he can't be bothered to play properly.

[Venmar]

Tempted to self-hammer.

[Venmar]

I'm dumb. Nevermind.

[PMysterious]

I'm not really feeling comfort. Om needs to die.

VOTE: OmoftheNom

[Om of the Nom]

Nice to see Bitmap is trying to frame my vote as OMGUS. The best part is he didn't even vote me or voice large suspicion of my actions right before I voted him.

[Bitmap]

Nice to see Bitmap is trying to frame my vote as OMGUS. The best part is he didn't even vote me or voice large suspicion of my actions right before I voted him.

It is. You have nothing to back up that claim. And I knew you were reaction fishing. I wanted to see where it would go so we can possibly tell the alignment on PMysterious.

[Om of the Nom]

Oh wait, I forgot to unvote first.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: PMysterious

Does anyone else have any thing they want to say

before the lynch?

>Before the lynch
>Lynch already happens

Lol.

Nice fishing attempt, Om. :S

My whole intention was to see if I could get PM to claim his role before he "died," to see if I could get a confirmed read on him.

But oh well, at least I caught another scum.

I must say, that was an interesting reaction to the "hammer" by someone who was supposedly so gung-ho about having everyone use the full day.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bitmap

How does this imply OMGUS, especially considering you just said you agreed with my gambit?

[Bitmap]

Yes, and it failed. Your point? I went along with it because it was a pro-town move in this setup since you were trying to pry information out of PMyst. And I applauded you for your efforts. Explain how this is scummy?

[Om of the Nom]

No, answer my question first.

[Bitmap]

How does this imply OMGUS, especially considering you just said you agreed with my gambit?

My answer:

Explain how this is scummy?

[Om of the Nom]

My question:

How does this imply OMGUS, especially considering you just said you agreed with my gambit?

Your answer:

blah blah blah deflecting so I don't have to answer the question

[Bitmap]

Sometimes an answer to a question is simply another question. You imply I'm scum with no real evidence to support it and just calling your gut feeling. Usually when you vote for someone, you think they are scummy. I didn't see how you thought I was scummy, thus leading me to call your OMGUS.

[Om of the Nom]

citysnake's last post gave me a very strong gut town read.
I'm changing my guess to PMyst/Bitmap scumteam.


PEDIT: You imply I'm OMGUSing you with no real evidence to support it. Maybe I should call you out on OMGUS too.
I like how you try to twist my reasons too. I never stated that your reaction had changed my gut read, I only stated how it was an interesting one considering your behaviour earlier on.

I hadn't been giving much evidence or reason for a lot of my votes earlier in the game, so why are you attacking me now instead of earlier?

[Om of the Nom]

See look at this; OMGUS implies someone voting for someone because the person they voted for had called them suspicious or voted them.
Where do my actions imply that? Your actions say it louder than mine.

[Bitmap]

citysnake's last post gave me a very strong gut town read.
I'm changing my guess to PMyst/Bitmap scumteam.

Just because you think one person is innocent means the other person is guilty? PoE is great and all but what about everyone else? A few posts ago you said I was town due to a so called "revelation." Inconsistent much without much evidence to back it up is what I see here.

PEDIT: You imply I'm OMGUSing you with no real evidence to support it. Maybe I should call you out on OMGUS too.
I like how you try to twist my reasons too. I never stated that your reaction had changed my gut read, I only stated how it was an interesting one considering your behaviour earlier on.

Which vote of mine was OMGUS? And yes, you just seem to change votes on a whim. Usually you know, when someone votes for someone, they think that person is scummy.

I hadn't been giving much evidence or reason for a lot of my votes earlier in the game, so why are you attacking me now instead of earlier?

Oh to the contrary, I've been giving you a lot less pressure than you did before. Last time, I even voted for you. Please stay consistent with your arguments.

[Bitmap]

See look at this; OMGUS implies someone voting for someone because the person they voted for had called them suspicious or voted them.
Where do my actions imply that? Your actions say it louder than mine.

Or it could mean your votes just sucked. Notice the phrase literally means "Oh My God You Suck" which can apply to votes which just suck. You're only argument that scum Bitmap exists is because solely on gut with little reasoning.

[Om of the Nom]

citysnake's last post gave me a very strong gut town read.
I'm changing my guess to PMyst/Bitmap scumteam.

Just because you think one person is innocent means the other person is guilty? PoE is great and all but what about everyone else? A few posts ago you said I was town due to a so called "revelation." Inconsistent much without much evidence to back it up is what I see here.

Even a gut like mine can be fooled.

PEDIT: You imply I'm OMGUSing you with no real evidence to support it. Maybe I should call you out on OMGUS too.
I like how you try to twist my reasons too. I never stated that your reaction had changed my gut read, I only stated how it was an interesting one considering your behaviour earlier on.

Which vote of mine was OMGUS? And yes, you just seem to change votes on a whim. Usually you know, when someone votes for someone, they think that person is scummy.

You never voted me, but my explanation of OMGUS in a later post supports the fact that you only had suspicion on me because I voted you. Which is basically the definition of OMGUS. My votes change on a whim because my scumreads can change on a whim too. Do you have a problem with that? I was like that in the game we hydra'd in, and you know we were town.

I hadn't been giving much evidence or reason for a lot of my votes earlier in the game, so why are you attacking me now instead of earlier?

Oh to the contrary, I've been giving you a lot less pressure than you did before. Last time, I even voted for you. Please stay consistent with your arguments.

I am staying consistent with my arguments, why don't you try to do that instead? I noticed you have been giving less pressure than before, but pressure is still pressure. Plus I know you actually voted for me last time too.
What I'm asking, is why didn't you mention anything when I did it all the other times inbetween.

PEDIT: Look in the wiki, the definition clearly states that OMGUS is basically a vote or suspicion of someone because they voted for you, or because they have suspicions of you.
Wait till my next post and I'll explain my reason for my recent vote on you, since you seem so nitpicky about it now.

[Om of the Nom]

Oh wait, I forgot to unvote first.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: PMysterious

Does anyone else have any thing they want to say

before the lynch?

>Before the lynch
>Lynch already happens

Lol.

Look here, no comment of dissaproval or dissapointment with the hammer. Earlier in the day he kept going on about how we should ue the full day, yet he doesn't even get slightly annoyed when I decide to "end the day early."
It read to me like he wasn't concerned with the flip at all, like he already knew what alignment the pairing was going to flip.

[Om of the Nom]

I'm not really feeling comfort. Om needs to die.

VOTE: OmoftheNom

Also note that shitty wagon jump by his partner. It clearly shows PM was aware of all the comments about me potentially being scum, and so he tried to take advantage of that and the votes on me while barely giving reasons. I'm still willing to lynch PM instead of Bitmap if you guys don't want another lover claim.

@Bitmap: Is there a particular reason you decided to only attack me for my vote on you and not PMyst's vote on me?

[Om of the Nom]

Time for a case :D
This one is a case on why Bitmap is scum with PM, and also a few things that point to their individual scumminess.

I would request that we use the 2 weeks to our fullest abilities. All the previous games failed due to so little conversation.

Requesting people use all the time in the day. This supports my claim about the odd reaction to the fakehammer. Also I read this as really fake towniness.

The best part is how you make it sound like my plan is the only plan there is. Sorry to say, but it's not.

OmNom has one of the best guts that i have so far encountered, i wouldn't just throw it away.

Honestly, i got a small scum vibe from Bitmap when he felt he needed to repeat himself about using the full day. Don't see why as town it would be such a crucial thing to repeat other than to look townie.

When you play games where a person is L-1 and you have everyone shouting "DON'T LYNCH YET" and you get that random person who just hammers anyways, then you'll understand. Also look at the statistics, town never won a single mafia game. Did you even bother to see why they lost? Because every game ended in less than 12 pages of people using their 'gut' feeling.

Again with the day length talk. This one just isn't as direct.

Listen, we have 2 weeks. Let's use it to it's full extent. Most of the previous games failed because they just random lynched and didn't provide much discussion.

I suggested we take the whole 2 weeks to plan this out instead of diving into a lynch blindly. We use the conventional method that mafiascum was brought upon.

Hey look, more suggestions that we use the whole day.

Well, this is interesting. Let's see what we can find.

@Om:
I'm a math guy. Using previous games from the wiki as statistics, what was the probability of a town win when everyone claimed their partners? What is the probability that town won at all?

The answer is 0% for both of them.

I think the problem with the last few games is that there was not a lot of discussion and just random lynches thrown around just hoping that a pair would end up holding someone scummy. All of the other games only had 12 pages or less of game talk.

Listen, we have 2 weeks. Let's use it to it's full extent. Most of the previous games failed because they just random lynched and didn't provide much discussion.

If my calculations are right even though I'm a bit rusty in Stats, our chances are around 1/3 to win this as town.

Because imagine it like 2 town pairs and 2 scum pairs. It's

(2 choose 1)/(4 choose 2) which ends up to be 1/3. My work might be off and if anyone knows statistics, feel free to correct me.

Nice use of math. I am good at math myself, but this blows my mind away.

Overall: I agree with Bitmap, we should use these Game Days to the best of our extent. We can't do quick hammers unless we are guaranteed that player is scum. I'll hold my vote for now.

Lol, that's it, sheep the more experienced mafia member. Also note the lack of a vote or any sort of suspicion on anyone.

I'm kinda curious around PMyst. His posts are just restating what I came up with and the lack actual reads. As Techno said, we should push for more content and should focus on getting content out of both citysnake and PMyst. As for now, Om said enough and we need to start pressuring the other non-active players. I'll push my vote off him for now.

UNVOTE: Om of the Nom
VOTE: PMysterious

Can we get your reads and you explaining why?

*states he's suspicious of someone for restating things*
*goes and restates something someone else said in his next sentence*
Yep, great logic there. I also notice the weak attack as a bus.

This starts the Bitmap>PMyst saga, where Bitmap focuses the majority of his attention to throwing PMyst under the bus.

PMyst, who is scum? Post already.

I'm seeing Om as scum. I can't really put my finger on anyone else.

Lol, lack of reads on everyone but me is noted.

STOP CALLING ME A FREAKIN' FEMALE!!!!! I am a male.

Fluff, which is very scummy considering this was only his third post (and the others had nothing interesting in them).

I find it a bit harsh that you are pushing Snake for reads and not PMyst. Why does PMyst get a free ticket? To be honest, City is contributing more.
I had them both as gut and PoE. What are your thoughts on PMyst? What do you think about his first post? Nothing?

Exactly! We need to know more about everyone. If we just tunnel citysnake, we might be missing key elements from PMyst and tunneling skews our vision of one person by making us think they are scummier than they actually are. This happened in a game which is on-going so I won't speak any further about it.

Why should PMyst care to contribute if there's no real pressure on him? We need to use our votes to pressure people at this stage. Right now, he has no fear of getting lynched because all the attention has been going to citysnake. Anyways, we aren't going to lynch anyone this early.

STOP CALLING ME A FREAKIN' FEMALE!!!!! I am a male.

Is that all? I already got called a chick so many times already. Anyways, can you give us explanations of your reads and whatnot? You haven't contributed much.

Look, more of Bitmap throwing PMyst under the bus. It looks like he's just trying to get rid of dead weight and earn some town cred in the process.

STOP CALLING ME A FREAKIN' FEMALE!!!!! I am a male.

- I blame JigglyPuff.

Also, why is this the only thing you have to say when me and Techno have asked you questions?

^

Parroting. Also funny considering the attack on PM for parroting earlier in the game.

No problem, and sorry if I wasn't supposed to. I just wanted everyone to keep note so we don't have any accidental hammers.

And I want to hear more from PMyst before giving a big list of reads on everyone.

More throwing PMyst under the bus.

Guys, I just remembered I played in another iteration of this setup.
As town.
Lover claims within the early game.
Scum lynched both days.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22111
I think the wiki needs to be updated :P

PEDIT: PMyst is doing jack shit and is continuing to do jack shit even once called out.

Also, I do agree, PMyst hasn't been doing much and that last comment of his doesn't go well with me since it had no substance.

Hey look, more parroting plus another weak attack with barely any evidence (this part is important considering his "OMGUS" attack on me).

Anyways, we aren't lynching anyone until we hear more from PMyst.

More throwing PMyst under the bus. I should probably make an acronym for this now. "OBOPM," "Obvious bussing of PMyst."

We're just waiting on PMyst to answer. Then we'll start the lynching.

OBOPM

Also, I've been ISOing your posts. Why so much hate on citysnake? At this stage, we are just trying to get more people to post so we have better reads on people. Why have you been so defensive over PMyst lately? You haven't placed any pressure on PMyst at all and seem to be trying to get people to focus on citysnake instead. At least citysnake posted. PMyst hasn't said a word. We need to push words out of PMyst if we are going to go with the "Full Day Plan".

So I'm going to ask this question once more which has been stated to you a few times, what are your reads on PMyst right now?

OBOPM. Also note he's steering the lynch away from city in a attempt to get towncred in case city gets lynched and flips town.

Isn't PM now at L-1?
Should we get a lover claim?

We should get some content out of PMyst before we do anything.

OBOPM

@Mod: Requesting prod on PMyst.

OBOPM

If we ask for a lover claim now, we can start making decisions based on the claim when he next posts instead of asking him after where we might have to wait much longer for him to claim.

Alright, I agree to this.

Who is the lover of PMyst?

Lol sheep. Also, OBOPM.

Okay then.
We don't really need much out of PM, I don't think we'll get anywhere by asking him things.
Lynch PM today, me/city tomorrow.
Permission to hammer?

No. We have time. And if worse comes to worse, PM will get replaced. We'll lynch PM when the time comes closer.

OBOPM. Also note he's trying to drag the day out again.

Did anyone besides me just see him online and "browsing this forum", or am I just seeing thing?

OBOPM

PMysterious
Last visited:Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:36 am

...sigh.

OBOPM

He's browsing right now.

Alrighty then! I would like to hear his reads.

OBOPM

I honestly think Om is 100% scum. Om has really thrown me off my town groove because of his suspicious acts.

City is a little suspicious but not enough to prove himself guilty. Ven is not scum with Om. I'll explain later. I actually need to re-read a little so give me some time and I'll get back on the final question later. :wink:

Bitmap: Town
Venmar: Town
Jun: Town
PMysterious: Town (Of course) :wink:
Techno: Town
City: Leaning Scum
Om: Scum
TAM: Null

Lol weak attack on me.
Lol my lover is probably scum with me.
Lol reads list everyone is town but me and my lover.

[Bitmap]

First off, what is OBOPM? It isn't in the wiki.

Secondly, that's a whole load of WIFOM. If your attack wasn't so tunneled, you would of realized Techno had also been focusing on PMyst lately. This purely due to getting information out of PMyst as he had said very little the past week.

You're just tunneling me to get rid of me early.

[Om of the Nom]

More throwing PMyst under the bus. I should probably make an acronym for this now. "OBOPM," "Obvious bussing of PMyst."

Nice to see you skimmed through my case.

[Bitmap]

More throwing PMyst under the bus. I should probably make an acronym for this now. "OBOPM," "Obvious bussing of PMyst."

Nice to see you skimmed through my case.

Haven't you just been tunneling me the whole game and not giving any reason?

Anyways, my apologies for being shocked that you actually decided to use quotes.