Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

[medeia]

If I were Scum, it'd be much easier for me to claim VT than going out on such a limb.

... this however would not explain my result lol

i cannot tell if this is intentional or not

[medeia]

If I were Scum, it'd be much easier for me to claim VT than going out on such a limb.

... this however would not explain my result lol

i cannot tell if this is intentional or not

like do scums actually say 'well if i was a scums i would have claimed vanilla town' after fakeclaiming to make everything make sense

mmmmmmmm

like do they

[medeia]

mmmaybe i guess

[medeia]

medeia - odd-night checker
random nurse - town jailkeeper(?)
chicagotypewriter - two-shot bulletproof(?)
meuh - vanilla town
pooky - vanilla town(?)
skitter - vanilla town(?)
sheepsaysmeep - vanilla town(?)
t3 - ?
ceejayvinoya - ?

still would like to finish this even though i am kinda assuming the rest

but ceejayvinoya would have just claimed? yeah, so mostly waiting on t3

if one of random nurse/chicagotypewriter is lying then possible setups are:

5 vanilla town
odd-night checker
jailkeeper

2 mafia ?

which is hard to judge with current information

or

5 vanilla town
odd-night checker
two-shot bulletproof

1 mafia ascetic/jailkeeper/roleblocker/etc
1 mafia ?

if both mafia were ascetic this would basically make me a hard investigative on odd nights, if neither was this would make me a named townie who could get unsuccessfuls if targeted by mafia or if targeting the same target as mafia? which uh, nearly positive the latter is not a passable setup

[medeia]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

uh, well i not good at this, but! i am here

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

i kinda think the roleblocker would probably be something else if this were the case? like maybe 1-shot strongman or a rolecop or something

just seems like so many potential false positives and! hard for mafias to interact with both the jailkeeper and bulletproof

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

no database for micro normals because they're usually not played in the normal queue +/

[medeia]

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

like obviously they try to balance the game but i meant more as in like counterplay

[medeia]

i think maybe it would be? it's weird for my role to be gated because it's already kinda weak or at least narrow so with added mafia power it could potentially be balanced

does seem messy tho

[medeia]

- he really, really hates protective roles and scum having no way to guarantee a kill

yeah my first instinct with the above was to give the scums a strongman, so!

[medeia]

The possibility has been raised that Random Nurse is a Mafia Roleblocker instead of Town Jailkeeper, right?

yeah which seems possible jailkeeper is a townier claim etc

setup would then be something along these lines:

5 vanilla town
odd-night checker
two-shot bulletproof

1 mafia ascetic/jailkeeper/roleblocker/etc
1 mafia ?

[medeia]

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

I don't think false positives make sense in a micro because micros are too small[2 mislims until elo] so its p gamebreaking

like if we don't have any useful information then thats just bad setup design

i don't know i guess to me it's not like a 'false positive' in the sense that 'this person is very probably a scums and must be eliminated' to me

but like i said before maybe i am misevaluating altogether

[medeia]

i think

odd night checker
2 shot bulletproof
2 mafia ascetic
5 VT

makes sense as a setup

if mafia had a roleblocker it would not really make sense imo

there is certainly an appeal to how simple and clean this is

[medeia]

pooky do u think anything about ceeja vinoya

i think if hes town we're gonna lose

wow this was a bit rude

hm

not really sure how much sense this makes either

like i think(?) ceejayvinoya is generally townread here and our chances seem worse to me if he's scum

are you worried that ceejayvinoya will be miseliminated at some point if he's town? or that his view of the game is wrong and he's unlikely to find the scums? or..?

[medeia]

imagine media is scum, tried to nightkill someone other than chicago, was blocked by nurse's jail

and then what?

i somehow divined that i was jailed and decided to fakeclaim?

despite being widely townread and despite the fact that chicagotypewriter had already provided another plausible explanation for the missing nightkill?

[medeia]

imagine media is scum, tried to nightkill someone other than chicago, was blocked by nurse's jail

and then what?

i somehow divined that i was jailed and decided to fakeclaim?

despite being widely townread and despite the fact that chicagotypewriter had already provided another plausible explanation for the missing nightkill?

like if you/anyone else have any worries about me here you can talk to me/ask me to walk you through whatever/do what it is you need to do to feel better about me because if you're town i want you to solve from my perspective here because those are the worlds that are actually possible and i am really not sure about the setup stuff

but yeah

kinda funny to imagine scum!me being like 'i checked random nurse unsuccessfully' and someone being like 'i doctored whoever' though

[medeia]

pooky do u think anything about ceeja vinoya

i think if hes town we're gonna lose

wow this was a bit rude

hm

not really sure how much sense this makes either

like i think(?) ceejayvinoya is generally townread here and our chances seem worse to me if he's scum

are you worried that ceejayvinoya will be miseliminated at some point if he's town? or that his view of the game is wrong and he's unlikely to find the scums? or..?

oh this was @pooky

[medeia]

Idk abt random nurse but idk if we flip them either

it is like,

i don't know if jailkeeper fits but if random nurse is town and prevents a nightkill tonight then it confirms random nurse and! gives us another elimination,

maybe still want to judge most likely i guess because only one miselimination to give but yeah

[medeia]

prevents a nightkill tonight then it confirms random nurse

mm, actually could still do the no nightkill thing towards this end i guess, sigh

nevermind

[medeia]

T3?

hello, i am VT

r u going to play the game

[medeia]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

uh, well i not good at this, but! i am here

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

i kinda think the roleblocker would probably be something else if this were the case? like maybe 1-shot strongman or a rolecop or something

just seems like so many potential false positives and! hard for mafias to interact with both the jailkeeper and bulletproof

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

no database for micro normals because they're usually not played in the normal queue +/

Being jailed wouldn't you not get any result if you tried using an investigative PR? You would just get "No Result," correct?

i believe this is true of most investigative prs but

checker is simply checking to see whether it gets a result or no result however

like ‘result’ = successful, ‘no result’ = not successful

and i would get an identical not successful regardless of why the check failed i believe

[medeia]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

uh, well i not good at this, but! i am here

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

i kinda think the roleblocker would probably be something else if this were the case? like maybe 1-shot strongman or a rolecop or something

just seems like so many potential false positives and! hard for mafias to interact with both the jailkeeper and bulletproof

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

no database for micro normals because they're usually not played in the normal queue +/

Being jailed wouldn't you not get any result if you tried using an investigative PR? You would just get "No Result," correct?

i believe this is true of most investigative prs but

checker is simply checking to see whether it gets a result or no result however

like ‘result’ = successful, ‘no result’ = not successful

and i would get an identical not successful regardless of why the check failed i believe

...

...

Could you share a paraphrased role PM on this?

i mean,

checks someone to see whether my action was successful

can also link the wiki if you want or you can ask the mod

[medeia]

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

uh, well i not good at this, but! i am here

so i potentially get false positives from jailkeeper and roleblocker, but true positive from ascetic,

i kinda think the roleblocker would probably be something else if this were the case? like maybe 1-shot strongman or a rolecop or something

just seems like so many potential false positives and! hard for mafias to interact with both the jailkeeper and bulletproof

but i don't actually know how often designers try to make the mafia powers line up with the towns

no database for micro normals because they're usually not played in the normal queue +/

Being jailed wouldn't you not get any result if you tried using an investigative PR? You would just get "No Result," correct?

i believe this is true of most investigative prs but

checker is simply checking to see whether it gets a result or no result however

like ‘result’ = successful, ‘no result’ = not successful

and i would get an identical not successful regardless of why the check failed i believe

...

...

Could you share a paraphrased role PM on this?

i mean,

checks someone to see whether my action was successful

can also link the wiki if you want or you can ask the mod

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Checker

[medeia]

coffee then catching up sorry for absence

[medeia]

prevents a nightkill tonight then it confirms random nurse

mm, actually could still do the no nightkill thing towards this end i guess, sigh

nevermind

How do u feel abt voting pooky

so it's like,

if i assume town!chicagotypewriter/random nurse then maybe pooky seems most likely

but if hedging i'd probably rather vote in {sheepsaysmeep, t3} if voting outside of the pr claims because could be scums in any of the worlds

like pooky probably just isn't partnered with random nurse and pooky's stance towards chicagotypewriter towards the end of day one seems pretty anti-partner as well like pooky would have had to have strongly believed that chicagotypewriter's claim would be enough all on its own to prevent his elimination which would be weird to put a newish partner in that situation and! it isn't really scum!pooky's style anyway to not just push someone else there

but if chicagotypewriter and random nurse are both truthful i could maybe see pooky's play coming from a scums

like it is kinda hard for me to see how pooky is so confident that my result is a hard guilty and there would be great incentive for scums to want to eliminate town!random nurse here and i could see pooky's play at the end of the day coming from scum!pooky if chicagotypewriter/meuh were both town

but also like, pooky could be right and my first instinct was 'oh maybe this is a guilty' as well just dunno how pooky would be so sure

[medeia]

just dunno how pooky would be so sure

but also like, pooky would probably know better than me and yeah

[medeia]

yeah idk will look at micro design more in depth later

[medeia]

IF CT flips Town, then I'd say look at Medeia since I did jail her and there was no NK—maybe she performed the NK action (look into this late game).

i just recently discussed this with sheepsaysmeep but

if i were the one performing the nightkill and my nightkill was blocked by your jailkeeper action

how would i have known i was jailkept in order to claim checker with an unsuccessful result?

and why would i have done so when i was widely townread instead of just like 'oh maybe i was saved'? (which i still think is possible for what it's worth like if you're town it seems somewhat likely to me that i was saved like i am quite often nightkilled and i don't think scums generally view me as someone to miseliminate in the future) especially given that chicagotypewriter had already provided another possible explanation for the missing nightkill with his claim

[medeia]

It's becoming increasingly likely to me that you are, in fact, a mafia aesthetic (hence the town odd-checker); and likely there's a hidden town pr right now with information gathering powers (i.e. cop or something) that has claimed VT

uh, i do not think the second half of this is likely or even like plausible - if random nurse is ascetic then my ability would function like a pseudo-cop and this would be too much power

[medeia]

You say that, but it's too convenient knowing that I jailed Medeia Night 1.

If I were Scum I'd have no reason to counter-claim in response to your Bulletproof claim. It'd be so much easier to just pretend to be a VT.

i still cannot tell if this is an act or not - from my perspective it felt like random nurse might have been conveniently claiming jailkeeping me in order to explain away my result

and claiming vanilla town would obviously not accomplish this

but is 'completely unaware' a tactic that a scums who fakeclaimed themself would be likely to employ tho

like if you crafted a fakeclaim in order to make everything make sense would you then keep saying 'oh scum!me would have claimed vt' (even though it doesn't make any sense) and 'so what is a checker anyway' and 'what guilty what's pooky talking about'? ya know

idk it doesn't seem impossible to me but would that really be the first arrow out of the quiver? and has been consistent, so

would like others opinions on this i guess

[medeia]

also we could just no lim here if we want to get fancy and see who dies with the JK leashed to the Checker

it depends upon who we would otherwise eliminate here i think

like if random nurse is town then it is better for us to eliminate here and stay on evens maybe?

and like, if we miseliminate here and miseliminate at six random nurse could in theory still prevent a nightkill and that one would actually confirm random nurse and prevent a loss

but i don't know if that's likely enough to occur to be worth considering though

and if random nurse is not town i don't know if sleeping does anything towards discovering that fact

but if we're going to eliminate random nurse here anyway then maybe we consider sleeping first? because when we sleep becomes less meaningful i think and! if we were going to eliminate random nurse and random nurse is nightkilled then that is obviously beneficial

[medeia]

idk i guess i wonder what you think we gain by doing so

[medeia]

Why do you refuse to vote Chicago, Sheep?

also if i squint this:

VOTE: Chicago

I think Chicago is the optimal lim today. I claimed Jailkeeper because I don't believe his Bulletproof claim; I don't see BP and JK in the same setup but I'm not 100% on that. If you lim me you lose your JK early, but chances are extremely high I'll be NK'd tonight anyways. There is a chance Scum opts to leave me alive Night 2 to set me up for a mis-lim Day 3.

IF CT flips Town, then I'd say look at Medeia since I did jail her and there was no NK—maybe she performed the NK action (look into this late game).

feels like it could have been built out of recent sheepsaysmeep posts entirely but idk if that means anything

[medeia]

VOTE: Chicago

do you think chicagotypewriter and pooky are possibly partnered or is this entirely unrelated to your willingness to eliminate pooky?

[medeia]

feel completely unable to process any information right now sorry

sheepsaysmeep doesn't

not

feel like he may have been kicking tires here to see what else is viable here outside of pooky/random nurse

like with the 'tinfoil' about me or thoughts on chicagotypewriter and t3

don't think he's likely partnered with t3 because this is the second time he's been like, if anyone else wants to vote here though...

which sure yeah if you want me to lay out worlds t3 probably in a lot of them

[medeia]

training soon will return in ~five hours

[medeia]

Have fun training

thankyou! could you maybe talk about what it is you're townreading from random nurse

and also maybe thoughts on likelihood of someone taking 'unaware' approach as scums as outlined above please

[medeia]

Okay, so I think I haven't been keeping up - I know there's a thought that the town JK should have JK'd me last night which would be pretty good play; but there are equally valid play options, right?

pooky and skitter are talking about theoretical optimal jailkeeper play (when to try to protect someone vs when to try to jail mafia making the kill and such) because pooky said he thought it was suspicious that random nurse would try to protect me there

which eh i think i was a fairly likely nightkill target there

[medeia]

and the scum would only be able to shoot in one of the VT claims and that narrows the field for us.

if the scum shoot RN and he's town obviously that also helps us more than if we were to eliminate him here

like i said i don't hate this

feel like the most likely outcome would be you being nightkilled

which if that is why you don't hate this fair enough

[medeia]

I personally feel a Chicago lim today would help sort out the mystery of these various claims, but if not today, then when? Day 3? Do I need to get NK'd before Town lims CT?

like vs eliminating outside of the pr claims or vs no elimination?

like if we sleep and you are nightkilled then that obviously helps with knowing the worlds but i don't know how likely that is even if you are town

if we eliminate in the vt claims and we don't hit then it's probably melo tomorrow and are maybe forced into choosing most likely world without a safety net

if we eliminate in the vt claims and do hit it's such a good position tho

if chicagotypewriter is a scums obviously beneficial to eliminate today

if chicagotypewriter is not a scums and we eliminate him it narrows potential worlds and i am pretty wary of you being like 'sort out the mystery of these various claims' as if chicagotypewriter being town would still mean you'd push me as mafia here

[medeia]

To be honest you sound worried that I would push you as Mafia when I wasn't currently thinking it when you mentioned this.

it felt like that's what you were saying to me here with the 'various claims' thing and you said it earlier as well like

'let's eliminate chicagotypewriter! but if it's not chicagotypewriter then maybe it's medeia...'

like you've just been ignoring why that doesn't make sense

[medeia]

To be honest you sound worried that I would push you as Mafia when I wasn't currently thinking it when you mentioned this.

it felt like that's what you were saying to me here with the 'various claims' thing and you said it earlier as well like

'let's eliminate chicagotypewriter! but if it's not chicagotypewriter then maybe it's medeia...'

like you've just been ignoring why that doesn't make sense

Why do you think it doesn't make sense?

I jailed you last night. There was no night kill. It's of course a possibility that it was you who attempted it.

Again, I don't know if that's what happened, but please don't presume that scenario is impossible.

i mean, it doesn't make sense across the board based on play but specifically this:

IF CT flips Town, then I'd say look at Medeia since I did jail her and there was no NK—maybe she performed the NK action (look into this late game).

i just recently discussed this with sheepsaysmeep but

if i were the one performing the nightkill and my nightkill was blocked by your jailkeeper action

how would i have known i was jailkept in order to claim checker with an unsuccessful result?

and why would i have done so when i was widely townread instead of just like 'oh maybe i was saved'? (which i still think is possible for what it's worth like if you're town it seems somewhat likely to me that i was saved like i am quite often nightkilled and i don't think scums generally view me as someone to miseliminate in the future) especially given that chicagotypewriter had already provided another possible explanation for the missing nightkill with his claim

which i've been over multiple times already

like sure let's assume you are town and you jailed me

if i had attempted the nightkill and i was blocked by your jailing me,

how exactly would i have known this in order to fakeclaim? like do you really think i would just guess and hope for the best? when i would obviously have had other better options there?

[medeia]

also

but please don't presume that scenario is impossible.

also i know that scenario is impossible

but still i should not get frustrated it just feels like you've been ignoring that altogether and i don't know if intentionally

[medeia]

Did you claim Checker before or after I claimed Jailkeeper?

.......................................................................

.......................................................................

before

[medeia]

I think if anyone else had a mechanism of stopping the nightkill they should just hardclaim?

if no one does then chicago is 100% confirmed town which is nice

and if something gets outed then oh well the day before MELO is an ok day for massclaim anyways

i, kinda want to massclaim here anyway for related and un-related reasons i guess

like in theory chicagotypewriter could have not nightkilled to try to confirm self and such so not 100%

but also,

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful which is the only maybe relevant result i am capable of (i think) and there's probably a reason my role is in the setup, so

or at the very least for random nurse to claim or if someone else has an explanation for the above and also if there's another reason for the missing nightkill? i guess

[medeia]

Did you claim Checker before or after I claimed Jailkeeper?

.......................................................................

.......................................................................

before

...

Hm. The post #s check out.

However, Mafia Checkers are possible.

Meaning, you being Scum is still possible.

and i would have claimed because… ?

and then your “blocking” the nightkill would be irrelevant

unless you think i’m a multitasking mafia checker

like

…

just feels like you want me to be a possibility without thinking about it

[medeia]

So your theory is the scum have a checker "just cause"?

I'm saying it's possible.

but do you think it is likely?

like to me it felt like you might have been trying to position yourself to try to eliminate me in case of chicagotypewriter green flip which conveniently would win the game for scum!you

and now you're on some sort of quest to get everyone to concede that i am in fact not an innocent child

which given but that doesn't make me anymore likely to be a scums? and i feel like there are a lot of things pointing towards the fact that i am town here which you're ignoring to say

'but it is possible!!' as if you just want people to doubt

[medeia]

She's like >95% town via reads, which i trust more than mechanics

Why are u trying to convince me she's scum

I'm not trying to convince you she's Scum. I'm trying to convince you she's not 100% Town as if she's mod-confirmed.

Understand the difference?

hm, kinda wanna ask what your current read of me is then

[medeia]

the obvious answer for why scum medeia would know to claim checker is if she was the mafia who carried out the nightkill and it wasnt on mr bulletproof so she knows she got blocked.

or that her target was doctored or a commuter et cetera

but if you want to say there is a

possibility

i could have simply guessed and ran with that sure but why would i have done so

but eh don't really think you think this is likely either, so

[medeia]

So your theory is the scum have a checker "just cause"?

I'm saying it's possible.

but do you think it is likely?

like to me it felt like you might have been trying to position yourself to try to eliminate me in case of chicagotypewriter green flip which conveniently would win the game for scum!you

and now you're on some sort of quest to get everyone to concede that i am in fact not an innocent child

which given but that doesn't make me anymore likely to be a scums? and i feel like there are a lot of things pointing towards the fact that i am town here which you're ignoring to say

'but it is possible!!' as if you just want people to doubt

I don't like how you're squirming like this.

I'm saying it's possible you're still Scum. Point blank. PERIOD.

STOP. TRYING. to pretend otherwise.

You're trying to make it sound like there's NO WAY you could POSSIBLY be Scum. I'm not even arguing you're Scum: I just don't like you trying to pretend you're mod-confirmed Town.

okay but why are you doing so? like that is true of everyone i don't get it

i'm not trying to pretend it is impossible; i know it is impossible and i am trying to figure out if you think it's likely and if so why and if not then why are you focused on whether or not it is possible if you don't think it's likely

like 'hey everyone it is possible that medeia is a scums!!! keep that in mind!!!' does not feel like trying to sort me in anyway

(also please try not to yell at me if you can - i know it is part of the game for you but yeah)

[medeia]

I WAS Townreading ypu Day 1. Then I jailed you Night 1 and the NK magically didn't happen.

SO, there's different possibilities here.

I DO NOT like you trying, ON DAY 2, to pretend you're mod-confirmed Town. You can STILL be Scum, but you FIGHTING me on that mere fact is NOT looking good in my eyes.

i am not fighting you on that fact i am trying to see if you're even trying to evaluate me here in anyway or just trying to push me

like i've asked multiple times for you to explain how you're weighing various things here like

it feels like you just want to say 'i jailed therefore possibly scums' without trying to evaluate that

[medeia]

like i am saying,

i do not understand how you would be evaluating things and reach the conclusion that it is likely i am a scums

it just doesn't make sense to me

and you're acting like that is me saying 'i am mod-confirmed' in order for you to then say, 'no you are not! it is possible you are a scums!'

which also just doesn't make sense to me

[medeia]

I'll stop myself from repeating after this last time that this posting is like blaringly Town Random Nurse to me if I have any idea how to read him lol

is this based entirely on kittytacky normal and even/odd game or do you know previous account?

[medeia]

Also, don't put me in a box on how I play as Town. I'm perfectly happy engaging with anyone when I am able.

i'll look at those games to try to get a better feel for when i get a chance

i guess most of the time it doesn't feel like you are 'perfectly happy engaging' with me here though

like everytime it just feels like me trying to figure out why you might be viewing things a certain way (like in this case i'd still like you to walk me through why you think scum!me might have taken this approach to the day) and you then saying 'i do not like this!' 'you are a scums!' or 'it's possible you are a scums!' or whatever

idk i will try to be around later

[medeia]

[medeia]

medeia - odd-night checker
random nurse - town jailkeeper(?)
chicagotypewriter - two-shot bulletproof(?)
meuh - vanilla town
pooky - vanilla town(?)
skitter - vanilla town(?)
sheepsaysmeep - vanilla town(?)
t3 - vanilla town(?)
ceejayvinoya - vanilla town(?)

[medeia]

mb its better to no lim rather than lim random nurse because if he's town he's going to get NKed

but if we're going to eliminate random nurse here anyway then maybe we consider sleeping first? because when we sleep becomes less meaningful i think and! if we were going to eliminate random nurse and random nurse is nightkilled then that is obviously beneficial

[medeia]

UNVOTE:

Yeah random nurse is not a good elim. What was Ceejay thinking? I can't say because I didn't read if he explained it

i don’t know random nurse probably makes the least sense to me setup wise and it seems somewhat likely he fake claimed in response to my claim

i claimed my result - unsuccessful - on random nurse then he claimed jailkeeping me

which would conveniently explain it and such but his response to that has been to say he would have claimed vt if he were a scums which is mostly just ???

like would be a pretty strange scum tactic and idk i can maybe see what sheepsaysmeep is saying re: random nurse being more likely to be more unassuming as a scums but now sheepsaysmeep is voting random nurse, so

otherwise having a lot of trouble following his thought process like with the ‘mod-confirmed’ thing

[medeia]

theyre just so different that my gut is screaming

gutvibes screaming on that one.

[medeia]

It's not mod confirmed by any stretch of the imagination, but now if rn is town we're just doing mafia's job for them.

I also think in terms of balance right now the jailkeeper is an odd man out role for town. It's a smaller set up. But on the off chance that it is town I'd rather hit RN day 3 and no elim today over that claim today.

I'm blanking on the math here but it also may just be better play to no elim on a day with even players get all info we can from day 2 and then see what happens Night 2. It may actually mathematically get us to an endgame where we need to get the right elimination at the same time whether we eliminate today or not

the ‘mod-confirmed’ thing is re: my last extended interaction with random nurse on last couple pages shouldn’t be hard to find

yeah i think if we would otherwise eliminate random nurse is the one situation we consider sleeping here - just hard to evaluate outcomes and i am maybe a little worried about weird setup stuff like strongman killing me through random nurse jailkeep or something from pooky’s plan and then what? but yeah

[medeia]

theyre just so different that my gut is screaming

gutvibes screaming on that one.

What is the point of this?

i was looking at that random nurse and thought it was kinda funny

[medeia]

theyre just so different that my gut is screaming

gutvibes screaming on that one.

What is the point of this?

i was looking at that random nurse and thought it was kinda funny

*random nurse game

[medeia]

Anyone here have intel on Scum!Medeia's meta?

i can compile my scum games give me a minute(s)

[medeia]

solo games:

fall with your friends (as inutile)
student council (as tracy flick)
a normal blitz iv (as shiki)
gacha mafia (as shiki)
a normal blitz ii (as shiki)
mini normal (as team rocket queen)

hydras:

chain of command (1/2 of euphony)
trust fall 10p (1/4 of intuition)

not sure these should count due to scums being secret majorities but for completion's sake:

dead silence (as thana) - was a mafia traitor and the mafias were actually the majority
silent star lunacy (as drusilla) - during day one i thought i was a scums but realized we were majority after day 1 flip

omitted marathon games and 5p jester game

[medeia]

i feel like i am missing something but went through and didn't find

[medeia]

okayokayokay let us see

[medeia]

There is no world where the mafia can afford to not take a shot at a town Jailkeeper

i guess i do not really get it

like are you really that certain that town!random nurse would always be nightkilled here and thus if someone else is nightkilled random nurse must be mafia?

when like, if we miseliminate today that sort of logic would win the game for the mafias if random nurse is in fact town so scums taking that chance doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me?

[medeia]

Even if we miselim today the option tomorrow to no elim is still there

if we miseliminate today and someone other than random nurse is nightkilled, then sleeping at 6 doesn't really resolve anything because it's melo anyway so scums don't really lose anything by no killing so interpreting anything in that situation becomes near impossible unless i am missing something

[medeia]

ppl should seriously vote

how are chicago nurse and I the only ones on meaningful wagons

yeah i get it less than two days left on deadline

sorry working on it will be around for a while now

[medeia]

VOTE: Pooky

I kind of like this one after some ISO work

if you want me to vote for pooky you're going to have to convince me that some variant of this:

Is
Jk
Checker
Bulletproof

Roleblocker
Ascetic

Balanced?
Plz someone who is good at this help me

is the most likely setup here as otherwise scum!pooky seems quite unlikely to me

and even then that pooky is the very most likely scums in those worlds as well

[medeia]

Ugh maybe we should just do it i don't know if he dies at night

mm, i am kinda leaning that way right now

could you maybe also explain or reexplain to me why you think it is scum!pooky in the 3 town pr worlds, please

[medeia]

I don't like rhat he vanished but claiming 2shot bp seems weird to me as scum, like why does he do that there
(Does he even think to do that there)

if chicagotypewriter is a scums it would have to be like,

he claimed x-shot unspecified role hoping not to be eliminated based on that

i think it is quite unlikely scum!chicagotypewriter would have done so with the plan of no killing and claiming 2-shot bulletproof that just seems very improbable yeah

so assumedly if chicagotypewriter is a scums he likely tried to nightkill me and then claimed two-shot bulletproof to both fit with the end of day claim and to explain the missing nightkill? and potentially to explain not being nightkilled in the future as well

which maybe he thinks to do? since the lack of nightkill would obviously be on the mafias minds but scum!him would have to know that there would be another explanation for it? which both lessens the benefit for scum!him of explaining it and would be kinda risky / likely to end up in counterclaim situation and i guess it is a little hard to imagine scum!chicagotypewriter thinking that would be particularly favourable for him since he was nearly eliminated day one etc

still seems more likely truthful to me

[medeia]

Does it make sense to leash rn to one of {me/medeia} picked at random

Medeia is odd-night so that should be fine
And should incentivize scum to kill rn if town??

But then i guess scum can just no kill and we end up here tomorrow (or shoot chicago)

Ugh

scums are only incentivized not to no kill if we eliminated someone else here because then if they did so we'd still be on 7 and would gain an elimination

but they could easily kill outside of you/me if random nurse is leashed whether he's town or not and yeah

[medeia]

also I think I might just die if we leashed him randomly to protect u/medeia I think I am approaching earning that

kinda agree with this though think sheepsaysmeep's approach to end of day has been pretty towny and interaction with brassherald as well

[medeia]

@vizzy can we get a vc plz?

unofficial votecount

pooky: skitter
random nurse: chicagotypewriter
chicagotypewriter: random nurse, sheepsaysmeep
sheepsaysmeep: t3

not voting: medeia, pooky, brassherald

[medeia]

pretty sure that's accurate

[medeia]

medeia what did u think from reading rn games

idk i thought that what you said maybe made sense about random nurse being more demure as mafia like he certainly feels more combative here then in the mafia game and maybe a little in the town game when interacting with deltabreedy though it doesn't feel completely comparable to this game either

[medeia]

medeia what did u think from reading rn games

idk i thought that what you said maybe made sense about random nurse being more demure as mafia like he certainly feels more combative here then in the mafia game and maybe a little in the town game when interacting with deltabreedy though it doesn't feel completely comparable to this game either

i guess that still seems like more a game situation/personality thing than alignment to me though like a lot of the instances of it in this game still don't make any sense to me

[medeia]

This is a lot of words to say you didn't get that much from it.

it was only two games and neither had all that many posts both less than this game so far

[medeia]

it was only two games and neither had all that many posts both less than this game so far

random nurse had less posts, i mean

idk if the games themselves did

[medeia]

This is a lot of words to say you didn't get that much from it.

it was only two games and neither had all that many posts both less than this game so far

I'm not saying that it's an unfair analysis but I was summarizing your findings for those less literate ones (me)

i mean most of what i gained from the project was that i could see how sheepsaysmeep was viewing it that way

which maybe wasn't the intended goal but yeah

[medeia]

well im gonna do whatever medea wants me to do

[medeia]

i have no idea what the VC is but I do want other people to like talk if there r objections to this plan

I think RN is at E-1

should be e-2, 5 to eliminate at 8 players

chicagotypewriter, skitter, sheepsaysmeep

[medeia]

i will likely vote him to e-1 shortly though as i will not be able to stay up late tonight and training in less than an hour

[medeia]

VOTE: random nurse

[medeia]

Brass's hammer is icky

do you still think hammer was icky?

[medeia]

skitter why do i shoot sheep dude instead of you

i mean,

i would never nightkill you i am shocked you would even think that

though i kinda think you'd nightkill skitter and still say you would never do so

[medeia]

skitter why do i shoot sheep dude instead of you

anyway nightkill analysis generally feels so meaningless

like sheepsaysmeep was hardpushing chicagotypewriter/t3 as most likely mafias so his death implicates either chicagotypewriter/t3 or! someone trying to implicate chicagotypewriter/t3, so!

and t3 was the only one pushing sheepsaysmeep but if t3 is a scums that would be meaningless towards potential miselimination and idk if scum!you would count on town!t3 voting sheepsaysmeep as likely path to victory here if you're not partnered

could maybe also have been afraid of someone (me?) taking up skitter's torch if she died i guess

probably a greater fear in skitter convincing me/others if you're a scums tho

could also have been to say the above etc etc

[medeia]

also think no lim is probly optimal since we're at 6

i kinda like being on evens (more town voices, two of us have to be wrong to lose, et cetera) but i get another check if i am not nightkilled so maybe we should sleep before voting yeah

[medeia]

skitter why do i shoot sheep dude instead of you

anyway nightkill analysis generally feels so meaningless

like sheepsaysmeep was hardpushing chicagotypewriter/t3 as most likely mafias so his death implicates either chicagotypewriter/t3 or! someone trying to implicate chicagotypewriter/t3, so!

and t3 was the only one pushing sheepsaysmeep but if t3 is a scums that would be meaningless towards potential miselimination and idk if scum!you would count on town!t3 voting sheepsaysmeep as likely path to victory here if you're not partnered

could maybe also have been afraid of someone (me?) taking up skitter's torch if she died i guess

probably a greater fear in skitter convincing me/others if you're a scums tho

could also have been to say the above etc etc

oh and!!! if we're going to no lim you could maybe still nightkill skitter if unable to win her over possibly without her last words being 'imagine me screaming pooky is a scums'

[medeia]

i don't really have enough information to determine how vital it would be for scum!you to nightkill me so hard to weigh

[medeia]

We take our time to analyze and no elim today I think

yeah

feel like i want to ask you things but i dunno what things

were you aware that pooky said he would hammer but wanted to give time when you hammered?

[medeia]

if the mafia keep skitter alive and she's town

skitter still town game crumbles without that pillar

and like whole approach with hunting outside of prs when noone else was only makes sense if partnered with chicagotypewriter and end of day one just makes that super unlikely like why would she ever townread meuh there and yeah

i am just never going to get there if she's a scums

[medeia]

gth its probly just chicago + t3 lol

if it was actually skitter+medeia I will claim I had the solution like on post #1 but I was just too soft to push it because I'm a n00b

hm,

i mean, i would be pretty okay with voting to test worlds

like you/brassherald voting t3 or something here but i dunno if that actually helps anyone solve

like chicagotypewriter would have to be partnered with one of the three of you if he's a scums and i'm willing to bet the game on skitter being town so it's safe

and! if it is me/skitter (it isn't) you get your merciful ending or whatever

but i don't really gain anything from that it'd mostly just be for you to see that it isn't that but if you're a scums you already know that, so, shrug

[medeia]

end of day one just makes that super unlikely like why would she ever townread meuh there and yeah

also like,

do you (pooky) really think it is plausible that skitter and i wouldn't have eliminated chicagotypewriter there? like pretty sure we could have easily so you'd have to think we like

didn't want to? for some reason which doesn't make all that much sense to me

[medeia]

actually that kind of reminds me of that game where medea + isis rolled me up like a blunt and smoked me

does this game

really

feel like that game to you tho?

like looking at it that was literally just you diverting a wagon onto a town and then towns being like, pooky must be a scums for this

while isis and i just kinda existed and then the towns voted for you and i hammered

[medeia]

Brass's hammer is icky

do you still think hammer was icky?

yes but probably a little less so

idk how eager scum!brassherald would be to get on a miselim he was only tangentially supporting i guess

could have possibly been afraid that random nurse would return and be quite towny and thus wanted to hammer immediately instead of waiting

or if partnered with pooky could have been a miscalculation on their part for the above reason maybe and pooky felt like he couldn't then hammer immediately because he said he'd wait so brassherald hammered

but i don't know how much sense that makes with the rest of brassherald's play during the day

[medeia]

t3

idk kinda want to say the thing that pooky said about ceejayvinoya but i feel like it's actually applicable here:

i think if hes town we're gonna lose

[medeia]

me

like if you're town it's just like,

do you think it would be our fault if we do not see that

like maybe it is and maybe i am supposed to comb through every post you've made as you've had to have made each of them either as a scums or a town

but! i don't see it if you're town right now, so

[medeia]

and i also get that if you are town this isn't really like

providing a solution to that or whatever

which honestly is still for you to just like

talk about the game? ya know

like regardless of your alignment i don't get it

[medeia]

i mean i've said i thought all the misflips were town and only did it to get a flip ...

mmm, sorry

idk they made the most sense to me of options at the time but impossible not to be results oriented about it like i get that i failed

[medeia]

yes the pooky killed a town so he must be scum thing does kind of remind me of that game

hm, that was like,

pooky triumphantly pushes a town! leads the charge convinces others sees it through

whereas the random nurse wagon like, idk if you're town it feels like more my fault than your fault to me,

like even with you supporting it and such it went through without you even

like mm,

i guess it doesn't feel so much like you killed towns to me as much as you let towns be killed here, if that makes sense

[medeia]

and i also get that if you are town this isn't really like

providing a solution to that or whatever

which honestly is still for you to just like

talk about the game? ya know

like regardless of your alignment i don't get it

@me or @pooky

oh this was continuation of my previous post @t3 sorry

[medeia]

I mean I was the first one to vote for random nurse and I made the whole deal about how his role doesnt really fit with the mech and his play doesnt make sense etc etc.

and he is a jailkeeper similar to norwegianboy who was an alien

and it is a micro

and they both wanted to kill you but I was like nah let's not

so if it was the exact same thing where town jk/alien wants to kill scum!medeia but pooky was like "nah medea town" then it would be the exact same thing repeated.

and that would be funny to me i guess I never learn

i guess i was more thinking about that game from my perspective rather than yours but it was hard for me to see how you would possibly think me/skitter here were comparable to me/isis there

[medeia]

probably just chicago + t3

Right, so I'm barely here, but I need to point out the egregious chain of logic here - I spent all of Day 1 trying to lim T3. Why would I do that if we were scum pair?

i mean, pooky acknowledged that logic in the very next post:

i guess it could be chicago + brassherald if you think chicago doesnt just voteplant t3 for the entirety of d1 but like im not sure we're ever going to get to t3 town because he doesnt care

but i can only assume that world isn't any better from your perspective?

[medeia]

also i guess the main reason I want no lim is because im kind of paranoid because medea/skitter are both still alive and thats like concerning a part of my brain that's like why are they still alive if they're town

and if we sleep and neither of us are nightkilled are we then suddenly the scum team to you? (even after you've said this)

[medeia]

hm, actually

okay i know this ruins the effect or whatever if you're town but...

are you trying to get the scums to leave us alive?

[medeia]

like, i'm town, skitter is very likely town, therefore if you're town solves game from your perspective et cetera

[medeia]

well i guess assuming scum doesn't no kill

[medeia]

also i guess the main reason I want no lim is because im kind of paranoid because medea/skitter are both still alive and thats like concerning a part of my brain that's like why are they still alive if they're town

and if we sleep and neither of us are nightkilled are we then suddenly the scum team to you? (even after you've said this)

well it would increase the paranoia

you would have a result

skitter would have the chance to 1v1 me

it would become much clearer

well yes and trying to figure out what that result might mean is pretty ugh i hate being a pr so much

like i am not arguing against sleeping i said as much at day start for pretty much this reason

i just don't get the 'paranoia' i guess

[medeia]

like if we r in f5 and skitter/me/you are all alive

i would have to think about whether you being teamed with skitter is possible

and obv if she votes me and the game doesnt end. it will be auto for me and i wont have to think anymore

like to me this would most likely mean that either a) scums thought skitter/me were likely to misvote at least once or b) if you're town that scums best bet was possibly your paranoia, or c) that you'd feel accomplishment from fooling skitter or something which i can't say hasn't crossed my mind here

[medeia]

like i guess mostly you can think about whether my being teamed with skitter is possible now

and if us simply being alive tomorrow makes that not only possible but likely to you that a) doesn't really make sense to me and b) is also like, a liability if you're town? which you'd also have to be aware of?

[medeia]

sorry that was @pooky

[medeia]

the paranoia is because the two of you have hardtownread each other from d1 and i would expect one of you to be shot by now if you're both town.

i guess you can say that skittertown can be kept alive for the purpose of mislimming me but i dunno why the scum would keep you alive.

??? if you're town and chicagotypewriter is a scums i would presumably be left alive for setup reasons as you (as did sheep) have insisted that 3 town pr world is very unlikely?

like

...

[medeia]

Ngl this like of thought kinda explains why sheep is dead if you're scum

the nightkill stuff isn't particularly convincing to me anyway especially given that we're likely to no eliminate and pooky is advocating for it and such

[medeia]

Wait who was the one who was Jailkept night one? I can't find it or remember

i was

[medeia]

But the question becomes then why you were the N1 kill shot if town and then N2 they went for sheep rather than you?

I just don't understand that one. Sheep didn't seem like a town leader or anything, and his plan mostly seemed to be kill in the PRs.

i’m town and was widely townread day one (if chicagotypewriter is town it is also possible he was targeted but yeah)

for night two i assume it’s probably some combination of a) random nurse suspecting me b) scums not wanting my role to be confirmed for setup reasons and/or c) scums not being worried about my role / my not getting another check until tonight

like yeah sheep wanted to kill chicagotypewriter but settled for random nurse and thought t3 was most likely chicagotypewriter’s partner

can certainly think of reasons why that might have gotten him killed as discussed earlier but i guess i don’t really know how to answer ‘but why not you’ beyond what is evident

[medeia]

So you're saying if they don't want to reveal your role, it's Chicago? Because otherwise who cares?

like if that’s their reasoning, yeah probably?

like if it’s pooky/t3 they could have just killed me and said ‘ope it’s chicagotypewriter based on setup’ but chicagotypewriter would obviously not want that? like pooky and sheep were already pushing that angle so if pooky is town chicagotypewriter killing me would be kinda ???

difficult to evaluate with the likelihood of no elimination here though as that is still an achievable outcome for scums

and also like, kinda a predictable conclusion for players to make so doesn’t seem impossible to me for scums to have been doing so to implicate either

[medeia]

please give me a few hours

i have to respond to a week's worth of emails and check to see if any of my film survived the airport then i'll be around

[medeia]

Could i be wrong on medeia?
I don't think i am

If we're sleeping let's just sleep honestly

you're not

and i am somewhat likely to be nightkilled here, so

anyway there're a couple things i want to look at from the past couple days and if you/anyone else want anything specific from me before we sleep request away

[medeia]

okay let's see

[medeia]

I'm thinking it might just be Pooky and Chicago.

still think this is rather unlikely

like does this:

pooky
Wdyt abt wagoning meuh or chicago

im ok with meuh - i have not remember a single word chicago dude has typed

ok skimmed chicago iso and like I can sort of see it being scummy but could just be how he talks

ok
VOTE: meuh

eh im doing meta on CT and I think it feels closer to his scum game than his town game actually lemme know what you think?

his town games feel more interactivey in terms of like figuring things out while his scum game feels more like detective exposition

town:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91019&user_select%5B%5D=37043
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91110&user_select%5B%5D=37043

scum:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90895&user_select%5B%5D=37043

I'm also like about to pass out, i'll be around tommorrow to vote

i think he's scum here tbh

oh ok I believe in you VOTE: CT

really happen if pooky and chicagotypewriter are partners? like pooky basically scumcasing and forcing partner to claim immediately after skitter voted for someone else? like if they are it'd have to be planned claim etc etc but it's just so convoluted and there's so little benefit and also would be out of character for pooky and yeah

[medeia]

Pooky is scummy by play like I said yesterday,

guess maybe i'd also like you to expand on this as this was all i could find:

VOTE: Pooky

I kind of like this one after some ISO work

i am willing to yeet random nurse and resolve this PR thing if thats how we want to do it

Of course you are.

but that can wait until tomorrow if you're both alive et cetera

[medeia]

that kinda maybe feels too throwaway to be distancing tho?

and brassherald's positioning yesterday (saying jailkeeper likely the odd role out but we should eliminate outside of prs and such) makes a lot more sense with chicagotypewriter than it does with pooky anyway like clear path of vanilla town -> random nurse vs ??? ya know

and ceejayvinoya felt pretty towny to me regardless guess maybe i should revisit at some point

so if pooky a scums t3 likely the partner i think

[medeia]

I'm thinking it might just be Pooky and Chicago.

still think this is rather unlikely

like does this:

pooky
Wdyt abt wagoning meuh or chicago

im ok with meuh - i have not remember a single word chicago dude has typed

ok skimmed chicago iso and like I can sort of see it being scummy but could just be how he talks

ok
VOTE: meuh

eh im doing meta on CT and I think it feels closer to his scum game than his town game actually lemme know what you think?

his town games feel more interactivey in terms of like figuring things out while his scum game feels more like detective exposition

town:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91019&user_select%5B%5D=37043
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91110&user_select%5B%5D=37043

scum:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90895&user_select%5B%5D=37043

I'm also like about to pass out, i'll be around tommorrow to vote

i think he's scum here tbh

oh ok I believe in you VOTE: CT

really happen if pooky and chicagotypewriter are partners? like pooky basically scumcasing and forcing partner to claim immediately after skitter voted for someone else? like if they are it'd have to be planned claim etc etc but it's just so convoluted and there's so little benefit and also would be out of character for pooky and yeah

actually this ^^

kinda makes me feel like this:

well if chicago is mafia the whole reason you're scumreading me is because i didnt kill scum but you're like the one who convinced me not to kill him d1 so like ???

is genuine

hm

[medeia]

eh i dunno i guess if chicagotypewriter is not mafia and pooky is mafia then skitter "convinced" pooky not to kill him nonetheless just feel like pooky didn't have to reach to find that like it was right there for him

[medeia]

main hangup with chicagotypewriter is still the claim:

if chicagotypewriter is a scums it would have to be like,

he claimed x-shot unspecified role hoping not to be eliminated based on that

i think it is quite unlikely scum!chicagotypewriter would have done so with the plan of no killing and claiming 2-shot bulletproof that just seems very improbable yeah

so assumedly if chicagotypewriter is a scums he likely tried to nightkill me and then claimed two-shot bulletproof to both fit with the end of day claim and to explain the missing nightkill? and potentially to explain not being nightkilled in the future as well

which maybe he thinks to do? since the lack of nightkill would obviously be on the mafias minds but scum!him would have to know that there would be another explanation for it? which both lessens the benefit for scum!him of explaining it and would be kinda risky / likely to end up in counterclaim situation and i guess it is a little hard to imagine scum!chicagotypewriter thinking that would be particularly favourable for him since he was nearly eliminated day one etc

still seems more likely truthful to me

like i don't really think chicagotypewriter is town based on play or based on the setup but still a little tough to square it away for me

idk i guess it doesn't seem impossible to me and maybe seems most likely scums to me outside of that

[medeia]

was kinda hoping someone would come be super towny or something today i guess but have also felt the general malaise of the day

or that i would suddenly see the matrix or whatever i suppose (though generally when i get that feeling it is 0% trustable, so!)

chicagotypewriter's only content post today was to say 't3 is not my partner'

t3's only posts were to say 'sheep kill frames t3/chicagotypewriter' and 'brassherald not partnered with chicagotypewriter but maybe skitter is(?)'

which like, ... yeah idk

as always probably just ignore everything i've posted if i die

[medeia]

yeah i'm okay with sleeping i guess

wish i felt better about pooky the whole 'paranoia' about a situation that would like, solve the game from pooky's perspective still so ??? to me,

but like, idk

like if i'm alive tomorrow can discuss with further information and if not i trust in skitter

mostly it just feels like the same day tomorrow + check if i live, and + fewer possible worlds if both me and skitter live

which generally seems unlikely to me yeah

so the paranoia thing just like, feels like it was potentially designed to try to open that up / test if it is a viable angle for scum!pooky

[medeia]

eh im doing meta on CT and I think it feels closer to his scum game than his town game actually lemme know what you think?

his town games feel more interactivey in terms of like figuring things out while his scum game feels more like detective exposition

town:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91019&user_select%5B%5D=37043
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91110&user_select%5B%5D=37043

scum:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90895&user_select%5B%5D=37043

I'm also like about to pass out, i'll be around tommorrow to vote

chicagotypewriter has since completed another scum game for anyone interested but i would very strongly recommend only reading his iso and not trying to read the game as a whole:

viewtopic.php?t=91202&user_select%5B%5D=37043

i think it is fairly consistent with the previous meta in terms of how chicagotypewriter generally feel more observational/less downhill as a scums but beyond that kinda hard to weigh things like potential correlation between alignment and activity or activity over time because of how that game played out

[medeia]

If we arent waiting for a replacement i'm fine just ending the day now

we are not currently - t3 hasn't posted in like 3 days but i don't think he's even been prodded, so

[medeia]

Ok if either of t3/chicago are town i wish they would play more
Maybe it's just the two of them idk

Hard to read either of them

yeah

tried to evaluate likelihood of chicagotypewriter just staying on partner!t3 day one and it seems possible he may have felt stuck there because t3 wasn't really doing anything townreadable and chicagotypewriter staying on t3 and refusing to vote meuh while not townreading her at end of day feels kinda hm and possibly for show

[medeia]

anyways

VOTE: no elimination

also could we fast night please

alsoalso it seems kinda unlikely scums will no kill here at the very least +)

pedit: hi!

[medeia]

also could we fast night please

i guess this may not be practical or whatever based on general activity level of game

[medeia]

Can we at least try ?

i mean, i certainly will

[medeia]

[medeia]

yupyupyupyupyupyupyupyupyup

[medeia]

[medeia]

successfully checked pooky last night soo... pooky is not ascetic at the very least

[medeia]

This was your idea so ....
Why am i still here ....

Medeia?

i don't think scum!me would be super eager to play elo with town!you having just watched you win a final four where you correctly reconsidered your reads and such

not to mention countless other times i've rooted for you in similar situations

[medeia]

and it's not like brassherald wasn't also townreading me

so scum!me betting against town!you solving the game from this position just seems like playing with fire to me would probably rather just cash out

[medeia]

and it's not like brassherald wasn't also townreading me

or at the very least i wasn't part of his solve and such

[medeia]

No that was more: share ur result plz

oh sorry i thought it was a continuation of previous post

[medeia]

@medeia - you claim to have a pr, why do you think you're alive right now?

i mean, my first instinct was that it probably means you are a scums because otherwise the scums would just kill me and then try to eliminate you, no?

like if you're town i guess it's hard for me to see the scum angle right now

could be to give that impression but it seems like, more work? than just killing me

it probably means that the scums were not afraid of my check for one reason or another

like if neither of the scums are ascetic or if one or both are but they planned on pushing me today anyway so my check wouldn't matter or i guess scum!skitter could have assumed i would not check her in theory

which even if you are a scums i kinda doubt you are ascetic anyway because you would have probably(?) claimed commuter instead of bulletproof at least if you had help with the claim

[medeia]

@medeia - you claim to have a pr, why do you think you're alive right now?

anyway why do you think i'm alive?

like i don't really know why you're asking me instead of working through possibilities because it's not like there aren't a lot of apparent ones

like it could also be that one of the worlds i had ruled out {skitter/x}, {pooky/chicagotypewriter} is incorrect and scums are counting on me being wrong

or like scum!pooky could have wanted to keep me/skitter to continue pushing that angle but eh seems kinda unlikely he'd try to win the game that way maybe push it a bit to seem towny then fall back but still eh

scums could have wanted town!pooky to push that angle though, or scums could have really wanted to kill brassherald for some reason

brassherald was only one really suggesting chicagotypewriter/pooky world so could have been because of that or because scums wanted towns to think that

and it's not like anyone was really scumreading brassherald

[medeia]

meh feel like everytime i try to analyse a nightkill i read the scum pt after the game and it's like

'do you wanna kill brassherald?'

'sure okay'

[medeia]

Medeia just claim plz

i did

successfully checked pooky last night soo... pooky is not ascetic at the very least

[medeia]

There's a few things from ct/t3 that seem anti-partner-y. If it isnt literally both than it has to be pooky, regardless of the partner

hm, do the pooky/ct things not seem anti-partner-y to you? or not as anti-partner-y?

[medeia]

i guess scum!skitter could have assumed i would not check her in theory

mmm

(the nightkill actually kinda makes sense for chicagotypewriter/skitter

like it's not like they could nightkill skitter and they probably would not want to kill me

which would also make sense with skitter positioning here like the 'not voting first' 'if we rule out chicagotypewriter/t3 then it must be pooky' sort of things

but that doesn't really make sense with rest of game to me with skitter's approach to chicagotypewriter day one not to mention rest of skitter's posting as a whole

and it's not like nightkills generally 'make sense' for the team that made them)

[medeia]

Oh i missed that, apologies

nono it's okay didn't mean for that to seem short or whatever

[medeia]

But if she's scum tbh i'm probably ok losing to her, she played well

Do u actually think it's medeia?

if it's her I'll just lose to her play its fine

it's funny to me that 'good' scumplay from me would just be more or less terrible townplay

like what does that say about my townplay though

like i get that i have not played well here and this is just like,

she has played well... if she's a scums

ya know

[medeia]

i guess scum!skitter could have assumed i would not check her in theory

mmm

(the nightkill actually kinda makes sense for chicagotypewriter/skitter

like it's not like they could nightkill skitter and they probably would not want to kill me

which would also make sense with skitter positioning here like the 'not voting first' 'if we rule out chicagotypewriter/t3 then it must be pooky' sort of things

but that doesn't really make sense with rest of game to me with skitter's approach to chicagotypewriter day one not to mention rest of skitter's posting as a whole

and it's not like nightkills generally 'make sense' for the team that made them)

Idk
Am i missing something?

If it isnt you
It has to be two of the other three

In which case it's either exactly t3/ct, or pooky has to be scum with one of them

nono i agree with that and the not voting first also like it's like 65% from my perspective to not lose the game if i vote but one of those three voting amongst the others is like 97%

was just thinking about theoretical scum!you sorry

like that is how you'd approach situation to force vote(s) in a way that almost always win the game for you

and i guess i am still not sure that it isn't chicagotypewriter/t3 - like chicagotypewriter returning to t3 is greatly lessened as anti-associative to me by the fact you specifically asked him to and it felt like he was still mostly trying to push elsewhere (random nurse? if i remember correctly) not get others to vote t3 and it's not like his staying on t3 at very end of day was actually putting him in danger - but idk maybe the t3 vote of chicagotypewriter you posted earlier is pretty anti-partner

but was mostly commentary on pointlessness of nka thus the parenthesis et cetera

[medeia]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

if you're ruling out chicagotypewriter/pooky based on day one interactions i don't really understand how you aren't doing the same for chicagotypewriter/skitter

like especially post-claim stuff like there's just no reason for scum!skitter partnered with scum!chicagotypewriter to be questioning meuh's towniness and at end of day and thinking about switching back

when i'm like, actively deciding there

[medeia]

Ehhhhhhh i'm cool with voting out meuh
But i can see myself voting ct here again too

I was in his scumgame and he feels kinda similar here tbh
I don't see why 333 is egregious, feels like an easy post

Pedit heya

Ahhhhhhhh maybe meuh is town here
I have a really hard time limming day1 pr claims >.>

like it doesn't really make sense as distancing when it actively puts chicagotypewriter under threat there

like maybe(?) i am overweighing this slightly because i feel like i was pretty close to voting chicagotypewriter at various moments there

but i do not feel like skitter would be like, sure, that i wouldn't? so it doesn't really make sense to me that she would have been encouraging in that direction

[medeia]

In which case it's either exactly t3/ct, or pooky has to be scum with one of them

well skitter if you actually think it must be me then you should probably vote me and see if it ends the game?

at least then if the game isn't over I'll be able to know you're mafia

stalling is just ???

you have been saying I am mafia for like the last three game days so I don't really get the hesitation now

do you do you do you

just not want to play anymore?

[medeia]

In which case it's either exactly t3/ct, or pooky has to be scum with one of them

well skitter if you actually think it must be me then you should probably vote me and see if it ends the game?

at least then if the game isn't over I'll be able to know you're mafia

stalling is just ???

you have been saying I am mafia for like the last three game days so I don't really get the hesitation now

do you do you do you

just not want to play anymore?

like if you're really afraid of town!skitter voting town!you you could preempt that by voting someone you scumread, no? and then hope to convince her from there instead of encouraging her to vote you

and if you're really afraid skitter is a scums you could try to further sort her and failing that you could vote her i guess? or try to show others?

i don't really get it

[medeia]

and failing that you could vote her i guess?

and it's like,

this isn't really an option for scum!you because it's wholly inconsistent with reads and such but if you're able to convince skitter to vote for you then it's like,

you can be like 'oh skitter is a scums afterall!' and hope for whoever is town amongst t3/chicagotypewriter to vote her

which like, idk what chicagotypewriter currently thinks and t3 is saying skitter/chicagotypewriter, so

so kinda hm i guess

[medeia]

like there is an appeal to 'if you're a scums just vote me' certainly makes sorting much easier

but eh doesn't really work if you don't think she's a scums like encouraging her to vote as method of actually discouraging her from voting you doesn't really seem like town thought process?

and let's lose quick still ??? at best but would be consistent with yesterday i guess

[medeia]

RN jailkept her, so N1, medeia is staring at a failed scum action, possibly a failed NK (and if memory serves, at this stage, I haven't yet claimed bulletproof).

you had already claimed bulletproof when i claimed:

Ah, yes, so I'm the reason no one is dead. A little thing called 2-Shot Bulletproof.

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful

so there would have already been another plausible explanation for the missing nightkill and such if i were a scums

[medeia]

What if medeia were scum?

idk realistically the game would be mostly unrecognisable if i were a scums but anyway

if you have any questions for me like anything you think would help you to sort me or whatever anything that i've done you'd like my thought process regarding just ask

but like, if you're town here the solve is very likely pooky/t3 and 'medeia? possibly a scums' isn't going to get us there

[medeia]

well ive voted wrong in elo like only once ever so i would like to avoid that lol

i mean,

i also do not want to vote wrong but i feel like i'd rather vote wrong in you/t3/chicagotypewriter than have skitter vote for me right now i guess

[medeia]

a big part of why i townread skitter was that i felt she was really dedicated to flipping me

but now shes all like idk idk

and thats p ?? to me

i dunno why she wanted to flip me d2 and d3 but not now

now i am confused as to why that was towny to you but! i guess i would not expect town!skitter to like, rush anything here? like idk i would be much more wary of her if she came into today and threw down the gauntlet

which maybe you could argue she is doing a little by the way she is dividing the teams but it's also mostly logical to me

[medeia]

it feels like calculating mafia skitter who is looking for the mislim she can get rather than town skitter who wants to murder me

but i dunno im willing to defer to your read

i mean, i am certainly willing to review i guess to me it just feels like,

like it wouldn't be hard for mafia skitter to find a mislim here and if she is a scums the being hesistant wouldn't be relevant for that anyway,

like scum!skitter would have already done the work with the nightkill and dividing the worlds and then it's just eliminating whoever, partner or not from her perspective, yeah?

[medeia]

well ive voted wrong in elo like only once ever so i would like to avoid that lol

i mean,

i also do not want to vote wrong but i feel like i'd rather vote wrong in you/t3/chicagotypewriter than have skitter vote for me right now i guess

well if skitter!town votes for me it doesnt count as a wrong vote in elo for me

if I vote for skitter!town that would be a wrong vote

also if skitter is mafia it would probably help me to see that if she votes me

well sure but if town!skitter votes for town!you we still lose whether you were wrong or not

mostly i was saying that i'd rather be wrong and lose if i thought there was a decent chance i was right than encourage someone else to be wrong if i thought they were town and knew they were wrong if so

which at the time is how i thought you were viewing her at least if you're town

like trying to maintain your voting record by not voting at the potential cost of the game is kinda ...

[medeia]

but idk i get the importance of personal milestones and things like that for motivation and it is impressive for how long you've played

like i've never been eliminated as town and i would like to maintain that and it certainly motivates me (please do not become encouraged to try to do so)

[medeia]

guess i'd just expect you to really want to be right because of it

rather than to not vote

[medeia]

because the timing of the reconsideration feels sus to me

hm

the timing of your reconsideration of skitter feels sus to me

like as soon as i said your encouraging skitter to vote for you didn't really make sense to me because you weren't scumreading her

you started scumreading her or at least that's how it felt to me

[medeia]

the timing of your reconsideration of skitter feels sus to me

like,

a brief timeline of recent events

i post parenthetical aside about how nightkill potentially 'makes sense' for skitter/chicagotypewriter (1446)

then t3 says skitter/chicagotypewriter the only real scumteam here (1452)

then pooky begins heavily encouraging skitter to vote him (1458, 1459, 1460)

i say this doesn't really make sense if pooky is townreading skitter (1470, 1471, 1472, 1473)

pooky states scumread of skitter (1477, 1479)

[medeia]

and it's kinda hard for me to see all of that as like, unconnected? i guess

[medeia]

it feels like calculating mafia skitter who is looking for the mislim she can get rather than town skitter who wants to murder me

but i dunno im willing to defer to your read

i mean, i am certainly willing to review i guess to me it just feels like,

like it wouldn't be hard for mafia skitter to find a mislim here and if she is a scums the being hesistant wouldn't be relevant for that anyway,

like scum!skitter would have already done the work with the nightkill and dividing the worlds and then it's just eliminating whoever, partner or not from her perspective, yeah?

well she's already hardsided to you in the chicago - medeia dichotomy so she cant mislim you

so its just down to T3 or myself for the mislims.

Let's say she wants to yeet me, is she going to get t3 to vote for me? he's said he thinks i'm town. is she going to get you to vote for me? you say i'm unlikely to be teamed to chicago.

so she's going to rub her hands for a while, try to convince you, and if that fails she yeets Chicago and tries again tommorrow with T3.

like of course she prefers to just win here and now but the space she's operating in is pretty limited if she's mafia.

She also cant just openly vote T3 because that draws herself and T3 into a dichotomy and I become the decision maker assuming we yeet Chicago and go to f3 with skitter/t3/myself.

I guess she could shoot me instead of you if she thinks your townread of her is stronger than my doubt of her but thats kind of bad optics.

wait had t3 even said that until recently

i guess maybe? with the 'why is pooky even scum' thing at the end of day two

but i guess to me the obvious solution to this for scum!skitter partnered with chicagotypewriter would be to just apply the same logic she is using to consider voting you here -

if chicagotypewriter/t3 impossible, then scum!pooky

- to try to eliminate t3, like

if chicagotypewriter/pooky impossible, then scum!t3

which like, those interactions do seem maybe more anti-partner to me and scum!skitter would have known how i viewed them coming into the day and! i asked skitter about that specifically earlier, like how she was weighing one set of anti-associatives vs the other

so it's not like she hasn't had opportunity to adjust already if she was afraid that she wouldn't be able to eliminate you

and like, yeah i can see why scum!skitter would want to not vote first i said as much when talking about her positioning earlier but it also makes sense to me for town!skitter to not want to vote first

like if there are two scums in set of three from your point of view, then generally better to have someone inside set vote someone else inside the set rather than someone outside the set vote within the set

[medeia]

medeia is convinced CT is mafia and I can't be teamed with CT
T3 is convinced I'm town

which one of them do you convince to vote me and how?

it's more like, chicagotypewriter seems somewhat likely mafia to me and your stance towards him day one seems quite unlikely to come from partners - like i just looked at it again and yeah

but i'm also 'convinced' skitter is town and from scum!her/chicagotypewriter point of view it'd probably be trying to weigh whether or not i think skitter/chicagotypewriter or (pooky/chicagotypewriter and pooky/t3 combined) would be more likely in order for her to be confident in voting you into a 1v1

like it's either t3/chicagotypewriter or something has to be wrong obviously

but i'm giving extra consideration to the something being wrong because i am here for a reason

(even if that reason is just to cause me to give extra consideration to the something being wrong)

[medeia]

like it's either t3/chicagotypewriter or something has to be wrong obviously

could maybe be you/t3 but hard to see the two of you not nightkilling me last night

[medeia]

If i'm town i have to convince like ct probably

what do you mean if you're town you have to convince CT? i thought CT was mafia from your town point of view?

He could be the townie idk
Or partnered with u and reluctant

He's still the vote i try to get to flip u

i feel like i am not following anymore

we need all three towns to vote together (or mafia to bus but they're unlikely to if the towns are unlikely to vote together)

like if you're town and vote pooky and chicagotypewriter/t3 don't hammer then pooky has to be a scums

and it doesn't actually matter what any of chicagotypewriter's or t3's reads are and such from your perspective

like it's completely irrelevant you know the solution so you have to try to convince both even though it's impossible because one of them would be a scums

like if t3 is town it doesn't matter that he's townreading pooky he has to be wrong and you'd have to convince him just the same as you'd have to convince chicagotypewriter if he's town

or maybe that's just how i view the game

[medeia]

going to get coffee/breakfast be back in an hour or so

[medeia]

yeah i think the only real scumteam here is skitter/chicago. i'm pretty sure chicago is town and chicago/pooky makes no sense as a scumteam. i don't think scum!chicago ever has the interaction in 616 with scum!pooky. plus pooky started the whole meta case on chicago.

if you're ruling out chicagotypewriter/pooky based on day one interactions i don't really understand how you aren't doing the same for chicagotypewriter/skitter

like especially post-claim stuff like there's just no reason for scum!skitter partnered with scum!chicagotypewriter to be questioning meuh's towniness and at end of day and thinking about switching back

when i'm like, actively deciding there

I think I explained earlier why day 1 interactions implicate skitter/chicago more than they clear them, no? skitter’s reconsideration of chicago was just a bunch of meaningless one-liners. In addition, skitter’s reconsideration of chicago doesn’t really mean a whole lot if skitter didn’t vote chicago. It seems like skitter was scum trying to give the impression that she’s conflicted between voting chicago and Meuh, so that Meuh can flip town on Day 1 and she can look less partnered if/when chicago flips.

eh feel like you mostly quoted chicagotypewriter posts (which sure the whole readslist thing was kinda ???) while ignoring the potentially clearing side of things

like you can't really say skitter's reconsideration of chicagotypewriter post-claim (a claim that doesn't happen without skitter's influence and such in the first place) was meaningless when i'm undecided there like if i vote chicagotypewriter then random nurse can't hammer meuh and someone on meuh wagon has to hammer chicagotypewriter

and it's not like skitter could somehow predict my behaviour when she was townreading meuh there or wavering on whether to vote chicagotypewriter

like maybe she knows me better than i know me but yeah

[medeia]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

[medeia]

Medeia this is bizarre right lol?

if you're both town then obviously all of

~this

is why chicagotypewriter/t3 would have left you alive

but yeah, this is bizarre

[medeia]

also if you both think im mafia then just vote me.

i dont know why both of you are still alive at elo when youve been running this game since d1 theres been no scum flips and both of you still hard townread each other while the background characters get popped in the night.

it is concerning to me

somehow knew we'd get back to this

explaining the decisions the mafias made still not something i can really do

like they probably did try to pop me?

like almost certainly if chicagotypewriter is a scums, so

[medeia]

?

why would i try to get it right if she has been saying she will vote me for the last three game days and her vote will solve her slot for me?

i only need to get my vote right if she doesnt vote for me.

I am not really encouraging her to vote me. i am pressuring her not to stall into the deadline

because if you get it right it solidifies worlds in much the same way that skitter voting you would and then if skitter is town maybe she would see

like it depends upon how you are viewing skitter of course and now this is mostly invalid like it didn't make sense to me that town!you wouldn't want to preempt a skitter vote by voting someone you scumread if you thought she was town

[medeia]

because if you get it right it solidifies worlds in much the same way that skitter voting you would and then if skitter is town maybe she would see

though i guess there is always chance you'd simply be voting partner

hmhmhm

which really isn't present for skitter/you lol

[medeia]

like this dayphase alone would be unreasonable

[medeia]

though the two of you repeatedly saying 'i would have nightkilled you' would be pretty funny

just the bantering throughout and then these last two day phases like it's so much work when the entirety of the audience you're trying to win would be what? me? and can just accomplish the same without the theatrics

[medeia]

if I'm town and I get it right on skitter's alignment [whether its town or mafia]

it does not matter if she votes for me

if skitter town votes for me the game is over

and if skitter mafia votes for me then I know she is mafia.

solving her alignment does not matter in either scenario

i wasn't suggesting town!you would preempt skitter voting you by you voting her

i was suggesting that town!you would preempt skitter voting you by you voting someone you scumread if you thought skitter was town

[medeia]

like i get that her voting you and you voting her are the same thing from your perspective and that her voting you solves her alignment to you one way or the other

[medeia]

I don't think me voting for someone would make skitter!town think I'm town

if anything she would see it as scum!me trying to pick the easiest fight or distance or whatever

hmmm

i guess i don't really know how town!skitter would approach the scenario

like to me it just makes things more clear so if i were afraid town!skitter was going to vote for me here i would want to make things more clear to her

but maybe that is just me replacing her with me and not how she'd (or you) would approach things

[medeia]

though the two of you repeatedly saying 'i would have nightkilled you' would be pretty funny

thats one thing that doesnt make sense to me about her progression on me

when I accuse her of being scum she says "oh i can't be scum because if I were I would've just nightkilled you"

and like if she actually believes that's clearing for her - how is the same thing not clearing for me?

i think her point was more that, under the assumption that she was a scums why would she not have nightkilled you if she wasn't going to follow through on trying to eliminate you, if i am understanding correctly

like you were saying it was scummy that she was hesitating now when she has been scumreading you for days and she was saying, if she was going to hesitate at this point because unsure if she could push it through, why wouldn't she have nightkilled you and pushed something else through, like the lines would have been clear to scum!her last night in her opinion

which, i'm not really sure how much sense that makes because one of chicagotypewriter/t3 would have to be town in that scenario and it seems like it would be difficult to account for either of their stances in a concrete sense

[medeia]

though the two of you repeatedly saying 'i would have nightkilled you' would be pretty funny

thats one thing that doesnt make sense to me about her progression on me

when I accuse her of being scum she says "oh i can't be scum because if I were I would've just nightkilled you"

and like if she actually believes that's clearing for her - how is the same thing not clearing for me?

i think her point was more that, under the assumption that she was a scums why would she not have nightkilled you if she wasn't going to follow through on trying to eliminate you, if i am understanding correctly

like you were saying it was scummy that she was hesitating now when she has been scumreading you for days and she was saying, if she was going to hesitate at this point because unsure if she could push it through, why wouldn't she have nightkilled you and pushed something else through, like the lines would have been clear to scum!her last night in her opinion

which, i'm not really sure how much sense that makes because one of chicagotypewriter/t3 would have to be town in that scenario and it seems like it would be difficult to account for either of their stances in a concrete sense

like if scum!her was unsure she'd be able to push through your elimination it would have to be that she was unsure if she could count on my townread of her being enough on its own? so if she was unsure of that why wouldn't she have nightkilled you?

but! if scum!skitter was unsure of that wouldn't she have simply nightkilled me

idk

[medeia]

like i guess it doesn't really make all that much sense to me regardless

but i don't really think it was like,

'i would have nightkilled you!' therefore i am town

[medeia]

i'm around-ish if you'd like my thoughts on anything / want me to look at anything specific etc

sigh i made it so far

[medeia]

i'm around-ish if you'd like my thoughts on anything / want me to look at anything specific etc

who do you think the mafia team is?

i think chicagotypewriter/t3 probably seems the most likely to me but idk if i just want it to be on some level

like even looking at what skitter just posted the readslist t3 post seems weird to me in context and chicagotypewriter voting for t3 at skitter's request feels like, like what other choice would he have and such,

[medeia]

readslist t3 post

or chicagotypewriter readslist post about t3, i mean

[medeia]

i think they don't look aligned

if they're not aligned and you're town then it's what

skitter/chicagotypewriter? skitter/t3?

which to be fair i haven't really looked at the latter at all but the former seems very unlikely to me

[medeia]

Wait you do think they look aligned?.??

not like, extremely so, but someone has to be aligned, and i don't think chicagotypewriter and pooky look all that aligned to me either

[medeia]

and if not that then pooky/t3 is like,

would they really not just kill me and try to eliminate chicagotypewriter?

like...

mmm, i kinda believe in that more than i believe in the anti-partner stuff i guess

[medeia]

sigh, at least one of you is definitely town and if we want to play ten billion questions let's sort medeia definitively we can

[medeia]

we aren't

[medeia]

skitter/t3?

eh it's like skitter did steer wagon off t3 but i was feeling itchy about it too and their interactions are kinda limited and whatever

but then it's just same big red flashing light with regards to the nightkill

like in this world why would they have not killed me and then tried to eliminate chicagotypewriter like it just doesn't make any sense

like even for wifom reasons like it just doesn't work on a basic level in my mind

[medeia]

like yeah i could see skitter's stance towards t3 being distancing and t3 just quoted a few random skitter posts early game and his late game solve makes sense for a partner sure whatever

in much the same way i could see pooky/t3 being partnered based on play though that one is more probable to me

but would either of you possibly have not just shot me? like chicagotypewriter would then have to argue out of being eliminated when his only defense would be

'i wouldn't shoot medeia' when scum!you could just say 'oh had to shoot her so she wouldn't catch you with check

and it's like, would there have been any expectation for him to have been able to based on how he's played?

[medeia]

especially!!! for skitter/t3

because skitter was the only one who strongly believed in the 3 pr world at any point

so there wouldn't even be that potential obstacle

[medeia]

because skitter was the only one who strongly believed in the 3 pr world at any point

or maybe not strongly but continued to posit it as an option and possibly a likely option and such

[medeia]

im obviously not the shooter i would never shoot brassherald or sheepbro in a million years

yesyes none of us would make the nightkill i get it

[medeia]

im obviously not the shooter i would never shoot brassherald or sheepbro in a million years

yesyes none of us would make the nightkill i get it

like i don't get how this is really applicable to what i am saying

much the same way i don't get how this was applicable to what skitter was saying earlier