Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[Almost50]

Dunn I just have the mason claim

You keep repeating this like it has any value. There is NO MASONRY, so it's NAI at best. NDMath thinks it AI for Dunn to have announced it, but I still think it's NAI

at best

.

Let me explain further: Scum!me gets a Mason card (of only 2 available on the list). I claim it and see if someone else claims having the other one. If they do, I shoot them at night and claim I picked that and had a Masonry with a dead person. No biggie. Corpses can't CC.
If nobody claims it then it's safe to assume there are no Masons in this game, and that's IF I had a Mason option to begin with.

Now let's consider me taking a more dangerous route, like.. claiming I have a Mason option when in fact I don't. That is risky because if 2 others claim they have it I'm screwed. If Only one does then I know whom to shoot tonight and -same as above- except I can take the ability I want from my pack and pass it and the next person to receive it won't know the difference.

Now let's consider a THIRD option: My PARTNER had the Mason card. >I< claim it. Again, someone responds and that's the NK. Nobody does and my PARTNER takes the card (to hide it) and I take the ability I want from my package.

The difference between Scum claiming a Mason card they have in their own package and one who claims it from their partner's package is how good the other options on one's package are. I won't bother making all the -unneeded- hypothetical propositions and analyze them, but I'm sure you get the picture by now.

Let me give some extra points: I did have 2 Strongman shots in my starting package and I claimed them on D1. You'd think someone who had a 2-shot Doctor ability would want to eliminate me and pick that over Mason. Dunn passed me that ability (which -with 3 Strongman shots floating- is totally useless.)

I have more, but I think I've said enough. I don't buy the Mason claim, and if I chose to do I still think it's NAI. I dislike his "none-existence" in the game thread (I know he is usually low on activity but I also know Town!him has a higher impact on things while being of a low post count), and I dislike his choice of a "claimed Mason ability with no confirmation that another exists" over a 2-shot Doctor, and I find it odd he never voted me despite me claiming I had 2 Strongman shots.

Can you reevaluate now and tell me how you feel about Dunn?

[Almost50]

'nother PaGeToP! I'm HOT!!

[Infinity 324]

Wasn't the plan for someone else not to claim mason and pick the masonry?

[Almost50]

House taking 1-shot hider kinda makes me think that might not be the case though, as if anything was worth night killing over it would also make sense to just take it to deny it.

The same package evidently had an Even Night Neighborizer. What if the other 3 were strong for Town and unworthy to Scum? Like.. I dunno.. N4 Tracker, N3 Watcher, N3 Follower, N4 Vig, N4 GS.. etc. (I am going by the list on the wiki. I am sure there are more options that are (a) Strong in the hands of Town, (b) semi-useless to Scum, and (c) to be used later, so not an immediate pick from T3's PoV

[Almost50]

Wasn't the plan for someone else not to claim mason and pick the masonry?

That's the plan Bingle proposed after Dunn had claimed his ability. Unless Bingle himself is also Scum there's no guarantee the Scum team thought the same as Bingle did.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think dunn having a doctor and you having strongman shots would affect him wanting to vote you. Town generally wants to vote for scum, not negative utility town.

I also am not convinced that scum was confident the other mason would claim, why would they?

[Almost50]

Wasn't the plan for someone else not to claim mason and pick the masonry?

And besides, this isn't the main point. Here.. let's me try again: You receive a package that contains a 2-shot Doctor and a Mason ability. Someone claims they have 2 Strongman shots (and a RB shot to top it all). Would you still go for the Mason ability or would you support the elimination of the claimed Townie and pick the 2-shot Doctor instead? Also, let's remember there was another suggestion that Dunn should pass the Mason ability to someone else. I don't remember who made that proposition so perhaps I should go back and check (iirc it was either NDMath o House, but I can't say I'm sure it was one of the two)

P-edit: Ok.. so that's your opinion here and I have nothing to add.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah, I would pick the mason in that spot.

[Dwlee99]

A rolecop could confirm Dunn's claim if I understand mason picking correctly.

[Dwlee99]

Only 6 post and I already have a scum lean

Lol, you're so predictable.

not you . I'll wait to short you.

I found the answer on the link. They can pick it but mason isn't added to their role and they don't get it in the chat.

I will short house tonight .so infinity post don't help town but rather cunfuse town. Dw post help town.. Dun stating mason most likely comes from town other wise . He would be hanging him self.

Did anyone ISO Cyrus before talking about why they thought he died?

[Titus]

#2 Titus and Norwee should have more knowledge about it, as that pack (passed from Titus to Norwee and to Dunn tonight

What's this about my pack now? Why are we fishing for this?

[Titus]

A rolecop could confirm Dunn's claim if I understand mason picking correctly.

Yes, but I bet that claim is NAI.

[Bingle]

NDMath has had little things that I liked about his posting, like when he townread someone for using a rolecop similarly to him

Do you mean when I townread Titus for rolecopping ND or when ND said he would also have jail kept me last night in response to Dunn’s claim?

Cause afaict NDs reaction to the rolecop was being offended he didn't get towncred over it.

[Dwlee99]

A rolecop could confirm Dunn's claim if I understand mason picking correctly.

Yes, but I bet that claim is NAI.

If Dunn gets rolecopped as a mason he is conftown.

[Titus]

A rolecop could confirm Dunn's claim if I understand mason picking correctly.

Yes, but I bet that claim is NAI.

If Dunn gets rolecopped as a mason he is conftown.

No. Scum can select the mason card, they just don't get PT access. See the wiki.

[Dwlee99]

Actually, I might not be right

Murder, are scum allowed to select a mason from their pack?

I found the answer on the link. They can pick it but mason isn't added to their role and they don't get it in the chat.

This is correct

Mason isn't added to their role if they're mafia

[Infinity 324]

NDMath has had little things that I liked about his posting, like when he townread someone for using a rolecop similarly to him

Do you mean when I townread Titus for rolecopping ND or when ND said he would also have jail kept me last night in response to Dunn’s claim?

Cause afaict NDs reaction to the rolecop was being offended he didn't get towncred over it.

The second one. I am very disengaged

[Dunnstral]

How is that different from me taking it now and then somebody else taking it later? Doesn't that activate the masons?

I was thinking the other person doesn't even claim and I tell you guys if a mason appears so they can claim it later

[Dunnstral]

You receive a package that contains a 2-shot Doctor and a Mason ability. Someone claims they have 2 Strongman shots (and a RB shot to top it all). Would you still go for the Mason ability or would you support the elimination of the claimed Townie and pick the 2-shot Doctor instead?

I would not eliminate based off of what was claimed in the pack on day 1, and I assume most people would not as well.

[mastina]

Dunn I just have the mason claim

You keep repeating this like it has any value. There is NO MASONRY, so it's NAI at best. NDMath thinks it AI for Dunn to have announced it, but I still think it's NAI

at best

.

Let me explain further: Scum!me gets a Mason card (of only 2 available on the list). I claim it and see if someone else claims having the other one. If they do, I shoot them at night and claim I picked that and had a Masonry with a dead person. No biggie. Corpses can't CC.
If nobody claims it then it's safe to assume there are no Masons in this game, and that's IF I had a Mason option to begin with.

Now let's consider me taking a more dangerous route, like.. claiming I have a Mason option when in fact I don't. That is risky because if 2 others claim they have it I'm screwed. If Only one does then I know whom to shoot tonight and -same as above- except I can take the ability I want from my pack and pass it and the next person to receive it won't know the difference.

Now let's consider a THIRD option: My PARTNER had the Mason card. >I< claim it. Again, someone responds and that's the NK. Nobody does and my PARTNER takes the card (to hide it) and I take the ability I want from my package.

The difference between Scum claiming a Mason card they have in their own package and one who claims it from their partner's package is how good the other options on one's package are. I won't bother making all the -unneeded- hypothetical propositions and analyze them, but I'm sure you get the picture by now.

Let me give some extra points: I did have 2 Strongman shots in my starting package and I claimed them on D1. You'd think someone who had a 2-shot Doctor ability would want to eliminate me and pick that over Mason. Dunn passed me that ability (which -with 3 Strongman shots floating- is totally useless.)

I have more, but I think I've said enough. I don't buy the Mason claim, and if I chose to do I still think it's NAI. I dislike his "none-existence" in the game thread (I know he is usually low on activity but I also know Town!him has a higher impact on things while being of a low post count), and I dislike his choice of a "claimed Mason ability with no confirmation that another exists" over a 2-shot Doctor, and I find it odd he never voted me despite me claiming I had 2 Strongman shots.

Can you reevaluate now and tell me how you feel about Dunn?

It's not often that I agree wholeheartedly with Almost50 so I think it's DAMN important I emphasize that in this post? I am agreeing wholeheartedly with Almost50. He and I almost never see fully eye to eye so the fact that we both do on Dunn here should really say something because Almost50 is dead on the money.

Literally the

only

defense for Dunnstral boils down to,
1: "Dunnstral has low activity towngames, therefore his low activity is nai" (this is not a reason to think the slot is town!),
2: "Dunnstral claimed mason and that must magically make him town somehow" (Almost50 does a good job of deconstructing that viewpoint and dispelling the magic to show why Dunnstral's mason claim is nai-at-best)

Whereas the reasons for Dunnstral to be scum?
Actually based off of not only what he's done this game (jackshit), but also actually extensive, fairly researched, nuanced meta on him, combined with a side of POE.

Dunnstral has no real reason to be town--in a game where most slots have reasons to be town.

What if the other 3 were strong for Town and unworthy to Scum? Like.. I dunno.. N4 Tracker, N3 Watcher, N3 Follower, N4 Vig, N4 GS.. etc. (I am going by the list on the wiki. I am sure there are more options that are (a) Strong in the hands of Town, (b) semi-useless to Scum, and (c) to be used later, so not an immediate pick from T3's PoV

At the risk of revealing too much, at least one of my investigatives was a role in your list above and I explicitly started with two investigatives. As NDMath got my packs, he should be able to confirm this and confirm that those investigatives were not in fact removed via nightkilling T3.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee is scum I guess

Ok lol. Story of my life in this game.
Remind me to point and laugh at y’all once you’re done wasting time on this miselimination.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I will at least finish moving by today.

[Dwlee99]

A50 can you tell me your reasons for voting Dunn?

[Bingle]

Actually, I might not be right

Murder, are scum allowed to select a mason from their pack?

I found the answer on the link. They can pick it but mason isn't added to their role and they don't get it in the chat.

This is correct

Mason isn't added to their role if they're mafia

This is true, though it hadn’t occurred to me.

[Almost50]

A50 can you tell me your reasons for voting Dunn?

Sure!

Spoiler:

READ THE BLOODY THREAD