NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[ConSpiracy]

So, are you claiming or what?

[MrZepher]

Quotes or it didn't happen Mastin.

[mastin2]

ConSpiracy: I had a sudden realization about claiming (last night, at something like 1 am) whether T-Bone is correct or not.

That simply put, my claim only benefits scum.

The reason why?

Not exactly what you'd think.

The reason why is because in my wording, any pro-town player would be able to instinctively understand my answer without me having given one, whereas a scum player MIGHT be able to if they thought about it hard enough, but that instinctively, they wouldn't know.

In other words, everyone who needs to know my answer already should. Everyone who doesn't need to know currently doesn't have an answer. And I'm not inclined to give them one.

[mastin2]

I'd love to elaborate on the above, but to do so would be counterproductive, since it'd let the scum in on the secret which any pro-town player should've picked up on by now.

[MrZepher]

Vote: T-Bone

I forgot I had taken it off.

[mastin2]

Also, to address Zepher.

You're scum for reasons you yourSELF noticed.

I think I see it, but we're at the point where we NEED to lynch scum.

This, ITSELF is a wolf-slip, now that I think about it. But the fact that you haven't noticed wolf-slips from yourself despite having noticed them in others when they're pretty much identical has confirmed you as being a wolf.

...It makes sense in my head, alright?

[mastin2]

...Was that the hammer? *checks votecount*

[mastin2]

Nah. T-Bone's at L-2. Too bad.

Had that been the hammer, it REALLY woulda cemented Zepher as scum. Now it only semi-cements him as scum.

(It's intuitive enough to me. See if you can figure out the reasons why.)

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE COUNT

Day 4 Vote Count (#5)

T-Bone - 5 (gorilla, mastin2, implosion, singersigner, MrZepher) L-2
gorilla - 1 (T-Bone)
Reckamonic - 1 (Charlie)
mastin2 - 1 (ConSpiracy)

Not voting - 5 (Chronopie, Reckamonic, tclawren, Powerrox93, C-Worl)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to No Lynch. Deadline is Saturday, June 4th at 12:00 PM, EDT.

[MrZepher]

I'm not stupid mastin. I always check the votecount before I vote.

I don't take into account anything I say unless I think I should, but I generally don't need to.
Town should have no reason to double check themselves.
Therefore, your point is moot to me.

And we are at the point where we need to start lynching scum.
A Zephyr lynch isn't exactly beneficial for the town, and I already know I can be NK'd thanks to all the suspicion you put on me yesterday.
I'm not going to go after you because I think you're town. Misguided town yes, but town nonetheless.
I can't go after C-Worl for the same reason. I hate both of you in this game but there are certain lynches we can't afford to have flip town.

T-Bone is close to confirmed scum at this point. Hence my vote.
I also think that the "Only scum hammer" rule of thumb is dumb, generally speaking. Days wouldn't end if that were really true.

But again, Specific quotes or it didn't happen.
You can't just not expect to not want to answer for the things I say. That's not cool.

[ConSpiracy]

Mastin, let me explain it once again.
It does help town. Why? Because you are in the neutral/scum zone.
Scum mustn't get a possibility to fake-claim.
You just got scummier by trying to come across with a townie and than drawing it back again.

Also. Just noticed, Charlie might just use the "I am voting a random non scummy guy, just to slip by unnoticed" I hate his non contribution. LyLo matters again.

[mastin2]

Indeed, Zepher, the scum hammering rule is quite stupid, and I don't believe in it. That wouldn't be the reason you'd be confirmed scum if you hammered. The vote itself wouldn't have been the issue. It's the motivation BEHIND the vote, and there'd have been no town motivation from you to hammer T-Bone in such a way. Hence, confirmed scum. Especially since you admitted to checking the votecount, so it would've been doubly-condemning.

Since you didn't, I still find you're likely scum for the vote, just for different reasons. It's a bit hard to explain, but anyone with eyes might be able to see it.

Also, I realize town has no reason to double-check themselves. But that's not what I said. I said noticed wolf-slips you've made. As in, already posted. And if you review your posts, you can see general trends in there which form a pattern:

A pattern identical to Gorilla's. The fact that you saw it in him and yet can't see it in yourself when you two are one and the same is evidence you're scum, because as town you'd have realized the similarity. You would've either revised your opinion on Gorilla (no longer seeing it as bad, with your biased opinion on your similar posts), or tried to explain the difference between his and yours.

Instead, you deny that the wolf-slips exist when you saw them in Gorilla, and that's what makes you scum with him.

[C-Worl]

Mastin if you're not claiming then you've already revealed you're a PR who probably targeted Nacho. If you hadn't targeted Nacho you could just say I didn't target Nacho and we could assume you either had a PR or that you're town. The fact that you refuse to answer kind of confirms what T-Bone was saying and also adds to you being scum.

[C-Worl]

EBWOP either had a pr or were a vanilla townie.

[mastin2]

ConSpiracy, the problem is that you're not thinking of me as being town.

If you're town, try it. Think of me as town. Then, try to put yourself in my shoes. You have that town mindframe. So, think of the reasons why I wouldn't claim whether T-Bone's correct or not as town. And it'll all become clear to you. It'll snap into place, make perfect sense if you're town.

But only if you see me as town and are town yourself.

I can say this because scum trying to do the same exact trick will fail. Since they already have that scum mindframe, first they have to GUESS what a town mindframe is, and THEN put themselves into my shoes, and THEN try to guess my motivation for not claiming, but they won't be able to shake off their scum biases a good 70-90% of the time. In other words, they might draw conclusions from it, but their conclusions will be flawed and incomplete.

Whereas with town, it'll naturally fall into place, almost like an instinct. It did for me. Once I thought about it, I realized and instantly knew about this last night, that it'd work and that any townsperson would be able to figure it all out, whereas the scum would be left confused and wondering WTF I'm rambling about.

It works. It really does. If you're town, and--just for a moment--can see me as being also town, you'll understand. Otherwise, it'll fail. If you think I'm scum, it won't work. If you ARE scum, it won't work.

[mastin2]

For instance. C-worl (town for sure) obviously was trying, but fell short because he thinks I'm scum. If he saw me as town and overcame his biases--for so much as a single moment--then he'd realize the truth when looking at my posts.

[mastin2]

Users browsing this forum: gorilla, mastin2
^I bet Gorilla's trying to make sense of my post right now. And inevitably will fail, because he's scum, not town.

[C-Worl]

Mastin town mind frame:

Mastin is VT: "I didn't target Nacho last night"

Mastin as PR that didn't target Nacho last night: "I didn't target Nacho last night"

Mastin as PR that did target Nacho last night: "I'm not answering" or "I targeted Nacho last night"

[MrZepher]

So I went back and checked Mastin's quote.

What I saw was Gorilla saying "We should find all the scum and just wolfhunt"
Town wouldn't really say that imo.

I meant we need to lynch scum in the regard that we know T-Bone is scum by now, and I can't make a conclusion on gorilla either way.
Therefore, I said we NEED to lynch scum.

I'm still trying to make sense of your argument towards me I guess too (I get it, but I probably need more examples of my "wolfslips")

[ConSpiracy]

ConSpiracy, the problem is that you're not thinking of me as being town.

If you're town, try it. Think of me as town. Then, try to put yourself in my shoes. You have that town mindframe. So, think of the reasons why I wouldn't claim whether T-Bone's correct or not as town. And it'll all become clear to you. It'll snap into place, make perfect sense if you're town.

But only if you see me as town and are town yourself.

I can say this because scum trying to do the same exact trick will fail. Since they already have that scum mindframe, first they have to GUESS what a town mindframe is, and THEN put themselves into my shoes, and THEN try to guess my motivation for not claiming, but they won't be able to shake off their scum biases a good 70-90% of the time. In other words, they might draw conclusions from it, but their conclusions will be flawed and incomplete.

Whereas with town, it'll naturally fall into place, almost like an instinct. It did for me. Once I thought about it, I realized and instantly knew about this last night, that it'd work and that any townsperson would be able to figure it all out, whereas the scum would be left confused and wondering WTF I'm rambling about.

It works. It really does. If you're town, and--just for a moment--can see me as being also town, you'll understand. Otherwise, it'll fail. If you think I'm scum, it won't work. If you ARE scum, it won't work.

Have you maybe thought it once from my perspective? IE you may be scum trying to set up a fake-claim? Please, trust me, you won't be night killed anyways. You could only be worried for a scum RB.

Also, I miss many people in this thread I believe.

[gorilla]

It's not really hard to infer what mastin is suggesting. It's probably better off dropping it.

p-edit: I haven't actually read mastin's posts and I might not read them, he can deal with it

Defending myself against mastin is getting tiresome and boorish especially since he's getting to a level of useless rhetoric that nearly matches T-Bone. If I'm still alive tomorrow I'll try to prove that I'm town, but I'm probably going to die overnight so it won't matter. So here I'm going to give reads to try to spin this into something productive while we wait for scum to get hammered:

mastin: probtown but way off the mark in his wolf reads. chance of being wolfscum because of the nacho kill but that's about it.

implosion: pretty sure this guy's town. not much more to say about him.

singersinger: hasn't done much. possibly the last mafioso, looking back on Shift's posts they paint the slot in a bad light now. worth looking into.

mrzepher: is active now so I like him by default over half the players in this thread. Overall I think he's town because he's been making pretty sensible posts, nacho kill gives him an outside chance of being wolfscum but that's it.

t-bone: scum, caught, etc.

charlie: afk, useless, lurker, etc. probably town, unfortunately. There's a chance he's mafia and T-Bone was trying to bus him yesterday (kr0b parroting T-Bone day 1 looks fairly scummy now), but I don't know if that's likely.

conspiracy - seemed town early on because he looked to be genuinely scumhunting. Hasn't done much to make me notice him. Right now I'd say he's a town read but not a strong one.

chronopie - still a slight scum read, haven't seen any remarkable posts from him and he made a bad vote on tclawren. however, he's definitely not mafia based on interaction with T-Bone and if tclawren is wolfscum then I'd say he's probtown.

reckamonic - I like RayFrost's D1, I really do, but looking back on it he was pretty clearly tunneled on town, the PGO claim is suspect, and reckamonic haven't done any scumhunting whatsoever. definitely a scum read right now. but not the top scumread.

tclawren - hasn't posted today. He's still very much possible wolfscum based on the EL kill and sort of seemed to push opportunistically on other players. moderate scum read on him.

powerrox93 - The scummiest player to never get wagoned. Read his ISO. Try to find the posts that are coming from a town perspective. (You can't.) He's hopped pretty much any wagon with the weakest justification. Ctrl+F for pine, find his pine vote, then look at how he only ever mentions Pine 3 times prior. If this guy isn't scum, then I'm an Anime Princess.

c-worl - VI. No matter how angry you are at him, you probably shouldn't lynch this guy.

mod: please prod tclawren

[gorilla]

and since I just asked for a player to be prodded, I'd appreciate it if

no one votes T-Bone until everyone has had time to discuss.

T-Bone will self hammer if he gets put at L-1, I'm sure of it. I don't want the day ending until the town's ready for it to end.

[Reckamonic]

Mastin, if you as much as pretend to claim we're going to have to take a very long phallic object and shove it very far in your anal cavity.
That would be the most fuckin retard play to grace this game (perhaps after jindori claiming scum...)


Oh and ftr

I'd say at least 66% of the game's antitowns are gonna be in
[C-Worl, T-Bone, Claw, Garm, Snake, Krob]

T-Bone and Garm have both been outed as scum
Snake was town.

If this pattern reproduces respect will be required

and it probably will, what with C-Worl and Claw still roaming around.

@Gorilla: not angry at C-Worl, but when he flips scum we'll laugh, oh how we'll laugh.

Give us a good reason not to put scum in hammer range? "Tclawren needs to catch up" is not a good reason.

[mastin2]

The more people post on the matter of me claiming whether T-Bone had an accurate result or not, the more me needing to claim becomes unnecessary. I already said that I wasn't going to claim my role today, no matter what, so the "scum fakeclaiming" holds no water, since there's nothing stopping me from doing that if I DID answer, anyway, if I was scum.

Funny, how both Zepher and Gorilla consider me town, yet dismiss me as being worthless town. And both think the other could be wolf-scum but isn't mafia-scum. And are LARGELY focused on selectively scumhunting.

Really, it can't get more obvious.

(Also, for the record, tclaw's still town.)

[gorilla]

I'll show you respect if you catch a wolf, but so far you haven't (but then, neither has anyone else living). If C-Worl ends up being a wolf I'll gladly kowtow to you but his interaction with jindori make me think he's one of the least likely players to be a wolf. Just an annoying VT, same as pine was.

I mean, even tclawren named two mafia:

Town Neighbor with EL.

The people that are most likely scum in my opinion are:

gorilla

T-Bone

Nachomamma8

Chronopie

MrZepher

Doesn't make him town since no one on that list has flipped werewolf. Between him and chronopie...I dunno.

I just want to make sure everyone has said their piece before we hammer the scum. Not just tclawren, but everyone currently alive. If everyone's like "zzz let's move on" then I'm not going to object to you voting him.