Mafiastuck (GAME OVER TOWN WINS!)

[Porfervor]

Phillamon's speculation towards Malpa comes off as townie based on the tone of it. I don't see a scum trying to solidify an almost guaranteed lynch, and with speculation for that matter. I think it's comparable to Vifam who idly commented yet didn't really do anything about it. He said his claim wasn't believable and left it as that, Phillamon elaborated on his stance. It was genuine and I liked it.

I hate Cheery Dog.

[Nachomamma8]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Porfervor]

Someone shoot xtopherus. I fucking hate that I'm not a dayvigil.

Hey mehdi, I see you claimed vigilante. Who did your previous slot shoot, or did they not take an action? Who are you shooting tonight?

[Nachomamma8]

Someone shoot xtopherus. I fucking hate that I'm not a dayvigil.

Hey mehdi, I see you claimed vigilante. Who did your previous slot shoot, or did they not take an action?

Who are you shooting tonight?

die in a fire

[Porfervor]

I'll go out in a blaze of glory once I shoot Vifam or Cheery Dog in the head tonight.

[Porfervor]

If malpa doesn't respond by the time I check this game, I'm hammering.

[Nachomamma8]

that would be cool
it would be even better if you went out in a blaze of glory and not a blaze of idiocy after you hammered a non-cc'ed PR.
so you could do something awesome and read malp's other games. tell me where the hell he's getting this superjailer claim since it ISN'T from the mod and it ISN'T from Faraday. tell me why we should deal with him now when scum will deal with him later. tell me any of these things so i can have my sanity back.

[Nachomamma8]

If malpa doesn't respond by the time I check this game, I'm hammering.

kill me
please kill me
god fucking damnit

[Porfervor]

Okay nacho let me know when another wagon happens today either I hammer or some other inactive comes in here for the hammer.

[Nachomamma8]

either I hammer or some other inactive comes in here for the hammer.

because it would be so terrible to force an inactive to justify a hammer instead of giving it to them for free?

[Porfervor]

Who replaced Nikanor? He's probably scum.

[Nachomamma8]

no one replaced nikanor
there are better choices for scum

[xtopherusD]

Nikanor was replaced by Murderface, who is currently being replaced in turn.

[DeasVail]

Ok, I'm really sorry for not doing much this day, but I'm thinking that Malp is either a town superjailer or a mafia superjailer (and not another mafia role fakeclaiming). If this is the already the consensus, I apologise, as I'm semi-skimming.

In 2039 he says his role is jailer and that super is just the role name.

In 2103 he amends the claim to say it's an alien type of thing (I hope that's right).

This would be unlikely to come from scum completely fakeclaiming (I think they would just stick to one claim) and is much more likely to come from town/scum checking their role PM.

I am also against the malp lynch and think we should look for other lynch targets.

As such, I am going to try sorting out my reads some time today.

[ActionDan]

that would be cool
it would be even better if you went out in a blaze of glory and not a blaze of idiocy after you hammered a non-cc'ed PR.
so you could do something awesome and read malp's other games. tell me where the hell he's getting this superjailer claim since it ISN'T from the mod and it ISN'T from Faraday. tell me why we should deal with him now when scum will deal with him later. tell me any of these things so i can have my sanity back.

I think it's my turn to laugh.

un cc'd PR? His claim is equivlent now to a ROLESTOPPER. He literally changed it from ROLESTOPPER to SUPERJAILER. It's sounds a little more town as SUPERJAILER, ya think? This isn't rocket science. And this is a crappy town PR (if town), worse than both a regular jailkeeper and a doctor and even a simple roleblocker mechanically. There is almost no incentive to go after this role as scum over say our claimed vigs, or even someone else.

[DeasVail]

I think it's the Alien variant of Jailkeeper.

[Phillammon]

I think it's the Alien variant of Jailkeeper.

I doubt that for flavour reasons (Threshecutors and Legislacerators, anyone?)(Okay okay I guess that they would be Cop and Vig respectively, but still)

[xtopherusD]

Let's get this back on here. Now that it's less dangerous and all.

VOTE: malpascp

Explain this.

This was after my 2006. The "officially but not for intent" means that I didn't want my vote to go towards an official lynch at that time, but I would have my vote there if we weren't so close to the hammer.
When we were further from hammer, I posted 2085.

I really don't find xtoph's meta argument against malpa convincing at all. Yes, I'm definitely convinced that Malpa buddies with his scum buddies, but what he's done here is attack one, Pandorica, and then back off a bit. This is pretty standard getting into to game play, I think. Then he attacked Paschendale, and questioned the wagon on Taz. I can totally see how this looks like an interaction between buddies. However, what I am not seeing is the behavior xtoph pointed out - ignoring or buddying.

Xtoph

, why do you think that the meta argument is so incriminating?

Meta shows us how a specific player is likely to react with people, rather than using a general guideline that people might not actually fit. If we can see that a player is showing similar signs as that of when they are scum, then we can have a fairly good idea of their alignment.

So let me draw some parallels for you from this game.

scum-malpascp completely avoids one scumpartner, and overly obviously buddies with any others.

In this game, we agree that there are most likely at least four members of the Felt Mafia. With two of them dead, we have two unknown. If malpascp is also one of them, it leaves one final Felt member for malpascp to "ignore".
Overly obvious "buddying" was not the phrase I was looking for there. I was more talking about arguing on the other person's behalf (Mini 1196's 572 and 576). You can see this sort of thing in posts such as 731 (it's different but the inclusion of "weak" has the same idea to it) and 1204, from this game.
malpascp also likes to pay a lot of attention to scumbuddies (in that link, the person you're looking for is Bub Bidderskins). And malpascp spent a fair amount of time on players who we now know are scum. And of course, ends it with very non-committal conclusion(s).
And he does the same thing again. malpascp suddenly is talking about Paschendale/Tazaro (and again here).

Having read through this game, and Micros 1194 and 1196 (two of his scum games), I think that his play has a similar feel here to how he plays scum. And I have already stated what I think of meta.


(by the way, looking through this thread yet again brings me to think that {Pandorica, Tazaro, malpascp, Zeta, buldermar} is accurate. From posts 701 and especially 713, Cheery Dog could either be part of the Felt or a player that they decided to pretend was in the Felt. Plus, malpascp's crazy reaction to buldermar's claim seems a bit too over-the-top and also kind of freaked out.

So basically if malpascp flips Felt scum, I could see Felt buldermar and possibly Felt CD, too)

(actually while I'm at it, what about buldermar, Mehdi? If you vig him, there are two most likely alternatives: He's scum, or he's a Jester (or has some other strange win condition). Killing a scum is obviously good, and killing a Jester clears out the water. I know he's been acting alright lately, but it's still possible that the scumclaim was drawing a lot of attention to himself so that the contrast later on (see: Now) would lead us to believe he is less likely to be a Jester.)

(I'm going to stop talking in parentheses now...)

[Nachomamma8]

that would be cool
it would be even better if you went out in a blaze of glory and not a blaze of idiocy after you hammered a non-cc'ed PR.
so you could do something awesome and read malp's other games. tell me where the hell he's getting this superjailer claim since it ISN'T from the mod and it ISN'T from Faraday. tell me why we should deal with him now when scum will deal with him later. tell me any of these things so i can have my sanity back.

I think it's my turn to laugh.

un cc'd PR? His claim is equivlent now to a ROLESTOPPER. He literally changed it from ROLESTOPPER to SUPERJAILER. It's sounds a little more town as SUPERJAILER, ya think? This isn't rocket science. And this is a crappy town PR (if town), worse than both a regular jailkeeper and a doctor and even a simple roleblocker mechanically. There is almost no incentive to go after this role as scum over say our claimed vigs, or even someone else.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Rolestopper

If you vig him, there are two most likely alternatives: He's scum, or he's a Jester (or has some other strange win condition).

stop this

[Maenara]

xtoph, you're spending too much time focusing on potential pairings, before we've even had a flip. It's a bad idea; you'll lock onto potential targets. Much as I'm loath to agree with Nacho (Love you, mate), you also need to shut up about bastard modding. Speculating there really doesn't help, and IIRC, this isn't even a bastard game.

Mehdi seems to have claimed way too early, and I've got a bad feeling about him. He asks way too many polite questions; feigned insecurity is usually way of a scumtell. I propose we keep him on a very, very short leash if he doesn't die during the night. Like, say, having town decide who he should shoot. I, personally, would like for him to aim at Alduskkel or AurorusVox.

[ActionDan]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Rolestopper

Of course, mafia wiki trys to fuck with me once again.

I'm thinking more precisely of this recent role:

Welcome, Dramonic!

You are a Stopper. Three times per game, at night, you may select a player. This player will not be targetable by any non-killing abilities, and will not be able to carry out any of his or her own active abilities. You will be informed at daybreak if you have consumed a shot of your ability.

You are aligned with Svalinn, along with your partners BBMolla (who is a Rolecop) and Hiraki (who is an Odd-Night Tracker). You may all communicate at any point in the game in this QuickTopic. You win when only your faction is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by responding to this role PM with your rolename, alignment, and abilities.

So a "Stopper". But It's still geared as a mafia-role

[Shrimp85]

You will understand, Shrimp.

Thanks, this is reassuring. I can sleep easy now.

Shrimp's 2097 - still not commenting on major wagons, still scum. Voting AVox, who's received quite a bit scrutiny in the thread, so it's a safe play. His reasoning is also reaching because on the one hand he's explaining that he can understand how difficult it is to participate in a game this size, and on other he's voting AVox for not doing this.

Just because I don't want to join the bigger wagons, I'm scum?
I believe that that wagon on Malpascp is not catching scum. Everyone starts to read his iso's, and yeah, the more you stare at an iso,
the more conclusions you can pull toward someone being mafia.

AurorusVox is safe play?
Yeah, but I didn't make it that way, AurorusVox kinda sticks out because of his lack of gameplay.

And you are changing what I said a bit. Don't.

I understand now it's really hard to participate in a game this size, so actually having lots of stuff
on someone to call them scum is pretty difficult,

but at least have something before you vote.

Doing nothing at all seems more scum than anything

, and he can hide because of the crowd running wild.

I understand why it could be hard to have good reads, but that's no excuse to have no reads.

[DeasVail]

"Some Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night. This variant is also known as Alien."

It's a JK variant, and I see it as very possible for town.

[xtopherusD]

Where did I talk about bastard modding? I didn't realise that that was what I was doing

[BroodKingEXE]

--snipped--

^Awkward jokes about "hacking his account n saw ur role pm" which are forced

So Fate's scum. Town Fate would have kept his mouth shut and let BroodKing respond.

OMGUS in terms of me disagreeing with you

You think that I think you're scum because you're disagreeing with me? What gave you that idea.

Because you are doing the same thing with Zeta, your first few posts on him were disagreements, then they blossomed into a scum read. Can you come up with motive behind why I would be pushing malpa or things I am saying wrong since my initial posting on malpa? It feels to me like you are digging to much into statements rather than the words in between them. Its true that scum have statements do have contradict, but if you can't find a motive it doesn't do much to convince anyone.

Even if this was true, it's ridiculous to assume that because once I had a disagreement with someone that blossomed into a scum read that it's going to happen every time. However, it's false because I didn't find Zeta scummy for disagreeing with me. I found him scummy for the things that he said during our argument.

Can I come up with a motive for pushing Malpa? Of course I can, there are fucking piles of possibilities.

What the fuck does digging into statements rather than the words in between them even mean? It looks to me like you are just posting nonsensical and meaning garbage that you think will sound good.

You're being vague, what do you find about Zeta in your argument. I only see disagreement in his response to you and at the very most I see a stubbornly wrong response. This is an important distinction because the way you scumhunt, that is looking for statements that are wrong, doesn't actually find scum, because being wrong is a null trait. If you think someone is wrong in their statement, then you obviously disagree with them. So I can conclude that you find scumminess in statements you think aren't correct.

"Digging into statements rather than the words in between them" means looking for motive in posts. I realize the statement's wording is really fucked though, so I understand how you could misunderstand. About the motive, do any of them make sense with how I am posting though? Sure I could make up a list of stuff about anybody about motive, but the list wouldn't make sense with how they are posting. I want you to give me a motive of why I would be pushing malpa or if you don't see a motive behind the push.