The Mass Effect thread

[JDodge]

Addendum to earlier spoilers:

There are now plenty enough hints to pretty much confirm that the indoctrination theory going around is at least partly (and probably mostly) correct and that the ending is coming soon in DLC. Yippee! Actually got a lot of respect for BioWare's ballsiness if this happens. Actually, and successfully, putting their players through indoctrination - brilliant.

Are you seriously saying that you're a lot happier if they released the ending of a massively popular trilogy and then made you

pay for the ending of it later?

Listen to yourself, man. That's a complete bullshit attempt to justify the poor ending through denial and you know it.

In related news, does anyone know the best way to take out those annoying guys that creep up on you with the big metal shield? I usually shoot their foot with infernal ammo, or wait til they get close and slot them, but... both strategies are pretty inefficient.

Adrenaline rush + sniper rifle works a treat. If you're not a Soldier, Pull works well too if you can bend it around the shield.

Adrenaline rush? AIM BETTER (also tactical cloak is a good aiming tool for infiltrators; being able to stand still and aim a shot without much fear of reprisal is powerful, especially if you upgrade it like I did to where the recharge time is damn close to your reload time)

So, let me get this straight...

There are only 3 endings, and Shepard ends up dead/presumed dead in all of them? And all your actions get boiled into a single counter to determine how much gets wrecked by the Reapers?

Fuck it. I've been a huge Mass Effect fan. I bought FUCKING PINNACLE STATION and even ENJOYED PLAYING IT. I don't give a shit about Deus Ex Machina endings or whatever, IMO that's part of the appeal of the series: it's a homage to old scifi stories. It's cheesy and awesome at the same time, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

But I can't have them take away Shepard's happy ending. I don't give a shit about what the galaxy looks like, imagination's better than knowing anyway. The characters though? I care about them. I want to know what happened to them. If they died, I want to have a chance to miss them. And I want Shepard to settle down with his/her LI.

Do you get ANYTHING about what happened to the survivors of your squad and friends?

Joker + a few members of your team crash-land on a deserted jungle planet.

[GreyICE]

Hey greyICE I just did that mission last night. I found it the toughest one yet, and I think I'm on normal difficulty.

In related news, does anyone know the best way to take out those annoying guys that creep up on you with the big metal shield? I usually shoot their foot with infernal ammo, or wait til they get close and slot them, but... both strategies are pretty inefficient.

Singularity, Singularity, Singularity, Singularity, Singularity.

Also I hear Singularity is some good in this game. Liara is your woman.

Alternatively, they're fairly easy to take out with an assault rifle, just spray near the edges and they'll stagger a bit, which opens up all sorts of elbow/knee shots. They're not bad at all. But really? Singularity.

Grenade powers, and lift/pull also work, but are much weaker than singularity.

[ChannelDelibird]

Addendum to earlier spoilers:

There are now plenty enough hints to pretty much confirm that the indoctrination theory going around is at least partly (and probably mostly) correct and that the ending is coming soon in DLC. Yippee! Actually got a lot of respect for BioWare's ballsiness if this happens. Actually, and successfully, putting their players through indoctrination - brilliant.

Are you seriously saying that you're a lot happier if they released the ending of a massively popular trilogy and then made you

pay for the ending of it later?

Listen to yourself, man. That's a complete bullshit attempt to justify the poor ending through denial and you know it.

My happiness at this is dependent on the DLC being free, which is what I am currently expecting/blindly hoping for - I don't think they could seriously justify charging extra for an ending, and if this is done for artistic purposes then I don't see why they would, more that they're giving all territories time to play the rest of the game/giving themselves time to polish the ending. I accept that there is plenty of reason to believe that we will be cyncially charged for it, in which case I will be much more irritated, but it would still be artistically very interesting.

[Primate]

Well I just finished a speed run playthrough on Hardcore. I just wanted to see the ending. Because I did virtually no optional missions I'm 99.9% sure that I got all the horrible outcomes. Among them:
*snip*

Finally, wasn't Sovereign trying to destroy the Citadel? And the Citadel was the home of the Catalyst, which was what created and controlled the reapers? So... what?

It's worse than that. Sovereign was trying to activate the citadel to call the other reapers. The protheans had managed to stop the citadel/keepers from responding to Sovereigns signal. So Sovereign was presumably unable to send a signal to the thing controlling it or something?

[UberNinja]

So, let me get this straight...

There are only 3 endings, and Shepard ends up dead/presumed dead in all of them? And all your actions get boiled into a single counter to determine how much gets wrecked by the Reapers?

Fuck it. I've been a huge Mass Effect fan. I bought FUCKING PINNACLE STATION and even ENJOYED PLAYING IT. I don't give a shit about Deus Ex Machina endings or whatever, IMO that's part of the appeal of the series: it's a homage to old scifi stories. It's cheesy and awesome at the same time, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

But I can't have them take away Shepard's happy ending. I don't give a shit about what the galaxy looks like, imagination's better than knowing anyway. The characters though? I care about them. I want to know what happened to them. If they died, I want to have a chance to miss them. And I want Shepard to settle down with his/her LI.

Do you get ANYTHING about what happened to the survivors of your squad and friends?

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... /9727423/1

I pretty much agree wholeheartedly with this thread. We haven't seen the ending yet. More than one BioWare twitter account has come as close as possible through a non-disclosure agreement to saying that there is at least more to come and that it is possibly down to this theory.

No ending yet. Play the game.

AAAHHHHHHHH

MUST. NOT. READ....

[UberNinja]

That's it I'm unbookmarking this thread.

-____-

[GreyICE]

Well I just finished a speed run playthrough on Hardcore. I just wanted to see the ending. Because I did virtually no optional missions I'm 99.9% sure that I got all the horrible outcomes. Among them:
*snip*

Finally, wasn't Sovereign trying to destroy the Citadel? And the Citadel was the home of the Catalyst, which was what created and controlled the reapers? So... what?

It's worse than that. Sovereign was trying to activate the citadel to call the other reapers. The protheans had managed to stop the citadel/keepers from responding to Sovereigns signal. So Sovereign was presumably unable to send a signal to the thing controlling it or something?

Hmmm.

If we assume faster than light travel has a significant time delay, then it's possible each Reaper intelligence is fully aware and capable of carrying out it's duty. In fact it's possible the Catalyst was only broadly aware of what the Reapers were doing, and they managed the day-to-day aspects. If that's the case, suddenly the entire thing makes a lot more sense. The Catalyst only really gets involved with part of the entire thing, and the Reapers, like the Geth, can operate self aware and on their own without connection to the central intelligence.

It still makes a lot of things really questionable, but c'est la vie

[JDodge]

The more and more I hear, the more the

"Shepard is indoctrinated and that isn't the real ending" theory makes sense. I am now going to move to being pissed off that Bioware didn't have time to finish the fucking ending but had time to make D1 DLC.

Saying HA WHAT A GREAT MINDFUCK does not excuse releasing an unfinished product.

[Primate]

Well I just finished a speed run playthrough on Hardcore. I just wanted to see the ending. Because I did virtually no optional missions I'm 99.9% sure that I got all the horrible outcomes. Among them:
*snip*

Finally, wasn't Sovereign trying to destroy the Citadel? And the Citadel was the home of the Catalyst, which was what created and controlled the reapers? So... what?

It's worse than that. Sovereign was trying to activate the citadel to call the other reapers. The protheans had managed to stop the citadel/keepers from responding to Sovereigns signal. So Sovereign was presumably unable to send a signal to the thing controlling it or something?

Hmmm.

If we assume faster than light travel has a significant time delay, then it's possible each Reaper intelligence is fully aware and capable of carrying out it's duty. In fact it's possible the Catalyst was only broadly aware of what the Reapers were doing, and they managed the day-to-day aspects. If that's the case, suddenly the entire thing makes a lot more sense. The Catalyst only really gets involved with part of the entire thing, and the Reapers, like the Geth, can operate self aware and on their own without connection to the central intelligence.

It still makes a lot of things really questionable, but c'est la vie

Yeah, it's a matter of how much autonomy you attribute to the reapers and how much the catalyst actually cares about losing reapers. I got the vibe from the conversations with Sovereign and Harbinger that the reapers are distinct individuals to a large extent.

Unless the catalyst is out of the picture, assumes it's all inevitable so doesn't care or has no control over the actual workings of the citadel, it's hard to see why he didn't flip the switch to summon all the reapers when Sovereign turned up and made it clear that it was go time for reaping.

[Umbrage]

OK, I'm actually beginning to believe the indoctrination theory myself. There're a lot of hints towards it that gamers have found.

Basically, it comes down to which is more likely: that BioWare not only fucked up the ending of their otherwise flawless game and conclusion to their most successful series but lied to customers everywhere about it, or the whole thing is the most insane marketing ploy of all time.

I mean, think about it. BioWare isn't stupid. They knew the ending to Mass Effect 3 was one of the most anticipated moments in gaming history. Everyone knows you don't play Mass Effect for the combat. You play it for the plot, the characters, and the choices. If the rest of ME3 was equally shitty, then fine, it's just a bad game. But why would it suddenly get shitty at the one part that HAD to be great? The one part that BioWare themselves were advertising as brilliant, and new, and original?

Then there's Skyrim to consider. When BioWare was making ME3, they knew what they were up against. People were bound to compare ME3 and Skyrim. Seriously, think on that for a bit. DA2 was a flop, and now Skyrim is regarded as the best RPG ever? If BioWare fucked up ME3, they were finished. RPGs are all they're known for, if they lost their status as the best in the business, they'd go out of business.

Frankly, I just don't see any other motive, any other reason for this ending to exist. BioWare knew what was at stake, and the only way you could fuck up an ending that horribly was if you really didn't care. BioWare had to care.

On the other hand, this is the company that brought us FUCKING NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2 AND THE WORST ENDING IN THE HISTORY OF ALL VIDEO GAMES EVER.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRjN8XM- ... re=related if you were fortunate enough to be spared that particular trauma.

[Primate]

I get why people think the indoctrination ending is possible plotwise, but I don't really buy it. They get a bunch of bad press on game release, if they do release a free dlc later, it's percieved as backtracking, and considering the xbox (73% of sales by platform) doesn't allow free DLC by publishers, they either have to foot that bill themselves or push it out as paid DLC, which would be even more divisive. I wouldn't be stunned if we got a new ending or two as well as part of some other DLC, and that'd be ace, but I think this is our ending and I wouldn't expect any kind of 'apology' dlc, especially one that was planned before release.

[Umbrage]

But you can give free updates for XBOX, right? And all PC versions of the game are linked with Origin, so those can all be updated as well. If this is a marketing ploy, it's likely just a small update that gives a longer ending, not a full DLC mission.

But whatever. We'll have to wait and see.

[Knight of Cydonia]

But you can give free updates for XBOX, right? And all PC versions of the game are linked with Origin, so those can all be updated as well. If this is a marketing ploy, it's likely just a small update that gives a longer ending, not a full DLC mission.

But whatever. We'll have to wait and see.

Free updates on Xbox Live are limited to a comparatively miniscule data size and, IIRC, 2 per game. This is why generally they're used to push numerical data changes/minor code fixes post-launch rather than content. The only devs you'll see pushing big free content/bugfix patches are those who have signed exclusivity contracts (see major XBLA titles, the Halos, etc) - this is why TF2 is dead on 360, because Valve aren't capable of putting everything they've given the PC market into it without literally bankrupting themselves. (Microsoft charge based on the size of your update and the number of downloads of that update - now imagine all those hats)

If there is a free "small update" that gives a longer ending, that ending will have had to already be on the disc, (which would probably destroy what little goodwill Bioware have left from fans right now) and if there is going to be a

better/true ending

DLC, it will cost money (which will ALSO destroy that goodwill); therefore unless Bioware really think they can get away with "true ending" DLC, the

indoctrination theory

is sadly just a lot of Bioware fans trying desperately to justify some seriously shoddy writing.

Basically, it comes down to which is more likely: that BioWare not only fucked up the ending of their otherwise flawless game

flawless

[Umbrage]

[sidenote]Wow, once again I'm glad to be a PC user. XBOX is completely and utterly fucked-up beyond belief.[/sidenote]

I don't know what BioWare are planning, but they're doing something. There are too many plot holes.

1) Your squad at the ending magically appearing on the Normandy.

2) The little boy vanishing from the vent.

3) Anderson somehow showing up at the end before Shepard.

4) Shepard breathing in space unaided.

And that's just based on what I've read, really looking at the game should come up with more.

I'm not saying Mass Effect has never had shoddy writing or plot holes, but BioWare doesn't make these kind of mistakes. ME plot holes are usually just various characters passing the Idiot Ball back and forth, or BW getting some of the science wrong. They don't lose track of where their characters are, and have you EVER seen an ME character breathe in space without a helmet or one of those weird bubble things?

There's a difference between a bad ending and an IMPOSSIBLE ending. I could see BW do some arty shit like that choice at the end and call it a day, but they don't fuck up like this. It wouldn't be the first time they extended an ending through DLC, Arrival and Awakening did the same thing.

I'm still pissed at them - for the D1 DLC, and shoving Origin down our throats, and turning the ending of a game into a marketing ploy, and I think the shit they've already gotten is just the beginning. But they're not stupid, just evil.

[Hiraki]

The more and more I hear, the more the

"Shepard is indoctrinated and that isn't the real ending" theory makes sense. I am now going to move to being pissed off that Bioware didn't have time to finish the fucking ending but had time to make D1 DLC.

Saying HA WHAT A GREAT MINDFUCK does not excuse releasing an unfinished product.

Spoiler:

as much as I agree with you, this is EA we're talking about

it's not like "We need to delay the game one more time for more additions"

it's more like "Release the fucking game now."

I think I understand now, if the indoctrination theory is true(which to be quite honest it does make a load of sense) why they did it. Mass Effect at their moment is their baby. You think they like KOTOR?

Also, realize that KOTOR was one of the largest investments that EA has ever made(if not the largest overall so I've heard) That doesn't really leave a load of room for Mass Effect.

tl;dr: yes I would be satisfied with ending DLC, though I would be extremely hesitant to buy it

and the D1 DLC was planned(due to script leak and mod package leak), that makes the indoctrination theory have even more credibility

EDIT: This isn't really spoilerish yay!

If you have Kinect use it. The game is

much

better with it. And this is someone who thinks that Kinect was a complete and utter waste of money(I didn't buy it mind you)

Edit 2: aw fuck.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... ex/9999272

Casey on after Mass Effect 3
"Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"

Then again...

Spoiler:

this is casey hudson speaking

[TheButtonmen]

What exactly are you meant to spend money on in this game?

I ended the game with >600K in the bank because the only thing I ever bought that cost >4k was a set of armor (Inferno Armor) which I then used for the entire game. I mean it might have been a

first world

vanguard problem due to charge / nova meaning I never needed to buy weapons and I found the guns my companions needed (Carn/Widow) for free. Other Vanguard problems involve ending the game with >50 skill points because once you max ammo power, charge, nova, assault mastery and fitness there's nothing to spend points on (In ME2 I had Geth Shield Boost but in ME3 all those types of abilites slow power usage which is suicide for vanguards).

Also Banshee's are goddamn terrifying when you're melee focused though Brutes and Phantoms are hilariously unthreatening for vanguards as you can just bash lock them (while chaining invincibility periods) with charge->nova->roll back->charge endlessly.

Also honestly for me the ending while complete trash was counter-balanced by the rest of the game / serious having some of the best writing I've ever found in a game. All the alien races were interesting and well designed (Krogan history alone get them a gold star), you fly the coolest damn ship ever (Normandy > aluminum falcon and enterprise combined), the endless background flavour for even things as small as the ads (Blasto!) and your companions are some of my favourite NPCs ever (Garrus is #1, spacebros for ever). I can ignore the last .01% of the series being awful when the rest of it is so well done.

Over all ME2 > ME3 > ME1 but all of them hold a special place in my heart and I admire what Bioware did here by establishing the first true trilogy we've seen yet.

[Bella]

Best ending:

Spoiler:

[JDodge]

Actual best ending:

Spoiler:

[TheButtonmen]

Also has anyone beaten an insanity playthrough yet?

I've done about 60% of the game insanity so far and I think i've figured it out enough to do the rest.

(Vanguard specific)
Charge / Shotguns are worse in ME3 then ME2 (I've ended up just carrying a SMG (Lotus/Tempest depending on the enemy)/Heavy Pistol (Carnifex) for the +196% cooldowns) but it's counteracted by the addition of Nova (I lovelovelove this skill) but I'm still having troubles running insanity in any cerberus section (Reapers are a joke when you're a vanguard and Geth aren't bad as long as I don't terribly miscalculate a charge and end up next to two cloaked hunters).

(General)
I'm finding it in general easier then ME2 insanity but there are some specific fights / enemies I find a lot harder then ME2 ones (Atlas/'shee/Phantom and their ability to instagib me from full, though this should probably go under vanguard specific as other classes don't spend most of their time in melee range of them), I'm not having the ammo issues I had in ME2 and the ability to revive your allies for free makes things much easier as I can endlessly throw them at key targets and Liara makes fights so much easier with Stasis (maxed duration / aoe) spam locking down half the foes at a time (seriously singularity blows compared to stasis) and how armor piercing works in ME3 completely negates things such as brutes / guardians positioning and cover (in ME2 I had to flush foes out of cover for Legion/Garrus to make explode but in ME3 Garrus w/ max AP ammo and a Widow with AP mod can shoot through almost anything people hide behind).

In all Insanity is easier in ME3 then ME2 but you'll randomly die a couple times and if you were running a class like Sentinel or Infiltrator then I'm pretty sure Insanity is very do-able.

[TheButtonmen]

Soooooo uh it appears that charging a banshee while is uses it's charge can somehow make your charge go off course and shoot you off the map....

My 'guard is now floating hundreds of feet in the in air, I can't move and there's nothing I can charge to.

[Umbrage]

Actual best ending:

Spoiler:

MWAHAHA YES

Anyway, that Casey Hudson quote pretty much confirmed I'm not buying ME3 ever.

[Hiraki]

Why does everyone think we want a happy ending?

I have absolutely no qualms about Shepard dying(untrue, I'd probably like him to live) but I'd like an ending more if it made sense.

(PSSST. THIS ONE THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR DOESN'T)

Edit: Eh. This post requires spoilers.

Spoiler:

What I mainly don't understand is

how

someone gets indoctrinated.

In addition, why would the Reapers, if they indoctrinated you(which I'm pretty sure is what happened at this point) allow you to have the choice to destroy them?

That just seems stupid.

This ending just doesn't give closure. It shows you how everything ends in Shepard's mind, but we really don't know if that's reality.

If anyone dares says that indoctrination isn't what happened, I'd like to know how/why you'd think that.

[Umbrage]

Why does everyone think we want a happy ending?

I have absolutely no qualms about Shepard dying(untrue, I'd probably like him to live) but I'd like an ending more if it made sense.

(PSSST. THIS ONE THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR DOESN'T)

Edit: Eh. This post requires spoilers.

Spoiler:

What I mainly don't understand is

how

someone gets indoctrinated.

In addition, why would the Reapers, if they indoctrinated you(which I'm pretty sure is what happened at this point) allow you to have the choice to destroy them?

That just seems stupid.

This ending just doesn't give closure. It shows you how everything ends in Shepard's mind, but we really don't know if that's reality.

If anyone dares says that indoctrination isn't what happened, I'd like to know how/why you'd think that.

Think of it like Inception. Remember how they couldn't just tell the guy an idea in a dream or it wouldn't stick? They had to get him to come to the desired conclusion.

I think it's the same thing with indoctrination. Basically, Harbringer is trying to get Shepard to choose not to destroy the Reapers. He can't say "YOU MUST SPARE THE REAPERS THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION", because Shepard (and you) would fight against that. It's basic psychology, by making Destroy an available but unappealing option, it increases the likelihood that Shepard won't choose that option.

Harbringer's been setting this up from the beginning. The boy says "you can't help me", Harbringer is trying to convince Shepard that he can't win. It's like Saren. Saren honestly believed that everyone had to cooperate with the Reapers. Harbringer is trying to do the same to Shepard, convince him that the 'best' ending is one where the Reapers survive.

Remember that Synthesis was pretty much what the Collectors were working for, and the ultimate goal of the Reapers. The Reapers are trying to get you to agree with that goal, failing that to get you to go for Control and let the Reapers in to your mind. We all know how that ends.

[Hiraki]

Spoiler:

It's not the itself choice that matters to me, it's the reason that the Reapers would even think about allowing the choice to be available. It's basically saying "lol, you can help us, and we'll even make it look good, but you can also hurt us"

While that may be part of mental psychology, as far as I'm concerned Shepard is ultimately unaware of his condition. That's the whole point of indoctrination.

Which leads to another good point I got when reading your post.

Why did the perfect ending only become unlocked when EMS was at the maximum potential?

That kind of seems stupid from a story standard.

[Umbrage]

1)

It all depends on how indoctrination works, I'm not sure. I think it's because Harbringer had to make Shepard choose to serve the Reaper's goals of his/her own free will for the effect to be complete. The important thing isn't that Shepard chooses Synthesis or Control, it's that he/she doesn't choose Destruction. If that choice isn't there, then when Shepard wakes up he/she just goes "oh wait, I don't have to do that, I can just kick the Reapers' asses". If Shepard declines Destruction, then Shepard wakes up thinking "well I COULD kick the Reapers' asses, but I don't think that's a good idea".

2)

Perfect ending? You mean Shepard waking up? My guess that was just thrown in to provide dedicated players with a nice clue toward the indoctrination theory. If the indoctrination theory isn't true, I don't know and I don't give a damn.