Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[VictorDeAngelo]

if RB was scum why would he admit aspect off the bat anyway. The best thing to would be to keep the information to himself, and then perhaps hold off hammering just before lylo and then take advantage. Giving the town a heads up serves no purpose

even apart from the fact that people don't always think about things optimally, in the scenario he lied about his role and simply claimed "double voter" or something, he could potentially get caught in a lie at some point prior to lylo and screw himself over

(plus, really, a double voter scum is no different to a triple voter scum in lylo and it's not even an advantage if, for example, town has a method of nullifying his vote or just outright vig killing him if he did that)

The lynch threshold doesn't seem to change though with the extra votes. And if the idea that the town has two hated players while the scum have multivoters just feels insanely unbalanced. Even if there is an odd spellcard around to stop it I remain skeptical because of how swingy a setup this could end being.

like yes, it's potentially a powerful role for scum if all goes well and he lives to lylo in a game with multiple cop investigations and other abilities that could screw him over, but what exactly do you think scum has to counter town power?

Well we know Bitmap had an alignment investigative ability. The only other one claimed was Sakura's and that had yet to be proven. An odd killrole might exist as well but if anything that might just stop scum brazingly hammering.

[zMuffinMan]

all role madness setups are inherently swingy. that is the nature of role madness. that's why clearing players based on how likely or unlikely it is for them to have a particular role as a certain alignment is extremely stupid when you (a) don't know the entire setup and (b) don't know what the mod was thinking when he designed the roles

for example, pieguy's role (scum) in the last touhou upick was, among other things, designed to give scum an advantage if pieguy made it to lylo (essentially autowin) which would have basically meant a surprise lylo the day before actual lylo if things had played out differently (i.e. if the hider hadn't killed himself on pieguy N1) (also of note there was a town hated in that game so it would have been a surprise lylo in every sense of the term)

this setup has more players (really only one more, but given there was a town treestump last game, it's technically two more), and probably more overall town power - i would be extremely surprised if scum don't have something on par with what pieguy had in last game (or stronger).

so when you say it feels unbalanced, i shake my head and shrug. it's definitely swingy, i don't think that necessarily makes it "unbalanced"

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well who knows, maybe the game's already lost. There are four dead townies, if Pim ends up being town (and really the lynch seems to be going ahead with the same level of thought as the new earth lynch yesterday is) then the game is probably going to be a scum blow out. But hell I have nothing to lose at this point.

[Malakittens]

....

Well if you unvote me we have a good chance of catching scum and I'm not one of them! Victor, I know you believe I'm scum, but can you give me half a shot at trying to let me convince you I'm town.

[zMuffinMan]

There are four dead townies, if Pim ends up being town (and really the lynch seems to be going ahead with the same level of thought as the new earth lynch yesterday is) then the game is probably going to be a scum blow out

ok, i think you're exaggerating here, but how would this change if notscience-slot is lynched and ends up being town? or <insert name of any other player>

and what exactly are you proposing we do?

i think RB-slot is scum. i went over my reasons while RB was still in the game; since pim has replaced in all he's done is prod dodge with promises of content (and fakegod could potentially be looking for yet another replacement soon if he doesn't pick up the prod). i don't think that slot is town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE: Malakittens

I'm all ears Mala.

[VictorDeAngelo]

There are four dead townies, if Pim ends up being town (and really the lynch seems to be going ahead with the same level of thought as the new earth lynch yesterday is) then the game is probably going to be a scum blow out

ok, i think you're exaggerating here, but how would this change if notscience-slot is lynched and ends up being town? or <insert name of any other player>

and what exactly are you proposing we do?

i think RB-slot is scum. i went over my reasons while RB was still in the game; since pim has replaced in all he's done is prod dodge with promises of content (and fakegod could potentially be looking for yet another replacement soon if he doesn't pick up the prod). i don't think that slot is town.

Give me a case to vote Pim and I'll vote Pim. But I don't see any reason to see this slot as scum right now. And I'm only pointing out how voting inactive players has unproductive so far this game.

[zMuffinMan]

But I don't see any reason to see this slot as scum right now

that's why i asked you to give me an opinion on his play, not his role

did you think RB looked town? do you think pim looks town?

[vezokpiraka]

Why does gaiden vote count as two?

I really don't like how mala always says she isn't scum. I get it once. That's a semi-townish thing to do, but she does it a lot. I believe she is panicked scum who wants to get out of this lynch.

[VictorDeAngelo]

did you think RB looked town?

The better question is surely do I think RB looked like scum. The answer is I can't remember anything scummy he did. (and I'm not looking back over it on my phone)

do you think pim looks town?

Pim's been inactive. If I had more content maybe I could read the role.

[zMuffinMan]

The better question is surely do I think RB looked like scum. The answer is I can't remember anything scummy he did

the questions essentially lead to the same answer so whatevs

i *really* don't want to put together a case on RB unless i have to :<

it's a lot of time and effort when the "case" could be found scattered across my ISO

tl;dr of it is the way he was scum hunting came across as really fake - most of the questions he was asking lacked direction or point, most of the statements he was making lacked any real analysis, and the stances he was taking on certain things didn't look town

[zMuffinMan]

if you want some quick examples off the top of my head, stuff like questioning why a cop didn't investigate a miller, after calling them both town, then proceeded to suggest they were buddies (iirc). awkward questions to me about what i thought of feirei's(your) vote-sticking stuff rather than questioning me about what i think of feirei(you).

and you know that thing you called notscience scummy for at the start of today (questioning gaiden's hammer). that's what RB did sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[zMuffinMan]

also not really sure what a case is going to do if you haven't really read his posts or formed an opinion on them (which is odd given you have opinions on like... everyone else)

[VictorDeAngelo]

The better question is surely do I think RB looked like scum. The answer is I can't remember anything scummy he did

the questions essentially lead to the same answer so whatevs

Well only if we simplify everything.

i *really* don't want to put together a case on RB unless i have to :<

Well I guess we see. Obviously I'm not going to vote for a guy unless I see a case.

it's a lot of time and effort when the "case" could be found scattered across my ISO

It's a lot of time and effort for me too.

tl;dr of it is the way he was scum hunting came across as really fake - most of the questions he was asking lacked direction or point, most of the statements he was making lacked any real analysis, and the stances he was taking on certain things didn't look town

That could applied to half the game honestly. Including the three players {notscience, Kagami, Sakura} I have already singled out.

if you want some quick examples off the top of my head, stuff like questioning why a cop didn't investigate a miller, after calling them both town, then proceeded to suggest they were buddies (iirc). awkward questions to me about what i thought of feirei's(your) vote-sticking stuff rather than questioning me about what i think of feirei(you).

The cop bit is weird but could just easily be derpy town.

and you know that thing you called notscience scummy for at the start of today (questioning gaiden's hammer). that's what RB did sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Well I guess that's a scumpoint in both the ns and RB column. In fact funnily enough so is the question my role.

also not really sure what a case is going to do if you haven't really read his posts or formed an opinion on them (which is odd given you have opinions on like... everyone else)

I have his posts, as anyone bothering to check through my ISO would see. Frankly I feel like I wasted my time reading so much of this game to catch up when no one seems to listen.

[zMuffinMan]

i wasn't sure whether you had since the only comment i remember you making about RB (all game) was something about him town reading his wagon easily

[zMuffinMan]

(apart from the stuff you've said about his role, i mean)

The cop bit is weird but could just easily be derpy town

*shrug* just about anything could arguably be derpy town, though really i think that's more likely to come from a scum mindset than a town mindset

[VictorDeAngelo]

i wasn't sure whether you had since the only comment i remember you making about RB (all game) was something about him town reading his wagon easily

And to be fair that's pretty the scummiest thing the role has done. I certainly couldn't provide a behaviour case anywhere near as long as ns's for RB.

[VictorDeAngelo]

(apart from the stuff you've said about his role, i mean)

The cop bit is weird but could just easily be derpy town

*shrug* just about anything could arguably be derpy town, though really i think that's more likely to come from a scum mindset than a town mindset

Fair point.

[zMuffinMan]

eh, it's midnight and i'm about to go to sleep. if i'm feeling super generous, i might write a case when i wake up

[VictorDeAngelo]

No rush, I'll be asleep myself but that point anyway.

[Varsoon]

Just comb your ISO and quote the parts that are there, if they really are.

[FakeGod]

Prodded Magua.

[VictorDeAngelo]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[zMuffinMan]

Just comb your ISO and quote the parts that are there

i don't think i ever wrote something resembling a case on RB, though - it was a read that evolved over the course of D1 through conversations with him and about him - the reasoning is sprinkled all over

[Nachomamma8]

nacho's right to read me has been revoked for good

you've been bad at reading me longer than i've been reading you, sooo

obviously i thought he was the towniest fuck that ever towned. should be pretty obvious if you've read anything i've said about him. or you could just scroll up to 2203

I was hoping that you'd be able to give me reasons that I wouldn't have to scroll through your ISO to read. I have no intention of reading your ISO since it won't help me get a read anyways, sooo.

Nacho give me thoughts on Kagami and GiF please. Mainly the former than the latter.

Also requotingcuz he missed it~

I dunno. GiF seemed town in ISO, but I haven't seen town presence. Don't really have an opinion on Kagami.

stuff like questioning why a cop didn't investigate a miller, after calling them both town, then proceeded to suggest they were buddies (iirc)

This seems crazy, not scummy.

awkward questions to me about what i thought of feirei's(your) vote-sticking stuff rather than questioning me about what i think of feirei(you).

This additionally doesn't seem very scummy.
Were these your favorite points?