New York 180 (Endgame)

[MathBlade]

Dragon spawn because they post opinions and reads without poking and pressure others.

Why Ozgin and Wolf?

Oh and short posts as I rest from weedwacking

[goodmorning]

RE: Ellie: I'll state for the record that the "I think he might be truthing but I'll vote for him" post doesn't seem impossible to have come from Town but that the post where she refuses to elabourate does.

I'm curious about this part - I actually had a very good reason for saying no, but what is your reasoning?

More than anything else, Town can't afford to be opaque.

The reason I am not immediately posting is because my current time in this thread is being spent responding to bogus accusations (ie you). The content will come; whether it's in 4 hours or one hour ago is immaterial.

This reminds me of you vs Csareo. I don't like that.

This game is the stupidest fucking thing ever - I am constantly plagued by the most retarded attacks ever and when I explain just how stupid they are, I am defensive scum.

So does this.

But I'll say to you now what I said then: just ignore it and be productive instead.

[Ozgin]

Sorry guys, real life been bringing down the hammer on me. I just read up on the day. Here we go...

Read this again: no matter what ika says,

players are never told if they are protected in normal games on this site

. vikingfan lied. Why would he lie about being protected? He is insecure about how his survival looks and tried to compensate for it by fabricating an explanation for it. He made a mistake in site meta.

He needs to be quicklynched ASAP.

So this is probably the most argued thing that has come up in the last few pages, the idea of whether or not people are informed when they're healed. ika gave a very neutral response, literally the most null wording possible. Is there any official source material that specifically says it is 100% impossible? Or maybe that it's just unlikely? I mean, if it's ambiguous in the rules, then it's about as null of an argument as you can get -- you simply cannot know if vf's telling the truth or not.

That being said, regardless of whether or not vf got a response, I just don't know that I believe the story. The whole "I got shot, revived, my read roleblocked, and two people actually died last night."

If we assume pisskop used his roleblock on vf, that still means there are three sources of attack at night phase. I'm a noob here, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but are there not only like, 5 ways someone can be killed at night in a normal game? How likely is that?

It's just so much

unlikeliness

happening in this story, but I'm not prepared to bring the thunder down on vf because I really think it's possible for him to just have garbage luck.

I think vikingfan is a town cop and telling the truth, but I am okay with his death and will probably hammer him if he reaches L-1.

I really liked Ellie for town until this post. I mean, what pro-town player in their right mind says, "I think player x is town, but I'm okay with killing player x." Especially if you think the "player x" is not only town, but also a fucking cop. This is just bad. Even if Ellie isn't scum, this certainly is not a pro-town read.

ABR I feel ika's covering for vf is kinda pro-vf's claim - I also have meta to do, so I'd appreciate you not running him into the noose.

Can you tell me in what way ika has defended vf? I read ika's response as very neutral, and particularly designed to not give a confirmation nor a denial. I mean, I think it's more or less just the fact that a bunch of people were confused and asking for help.

Sorry, I realized during the night that I had mixed up my role pms with another game. I'm unfortunately a VT. My bad...

Ugh. I don't know how to read ABR. But I keep imagining myself looking back to this post after the game and asking

why

exactly we didn't lynch him for it

Bingo.

People, think of it this way. WHY is ABR posting so much content today than he has the entire rest of the game? He is admittedy either A, an idiot, or B, a scum liar. He admittedly fakeclaimed day 1 and now wants us to let him off the hook for getting his role PMs mixed up instead of specifically LOOKING AT HIS PM. A careful town would make sure he quotes the right PM. A scum would not. And he's used words like 'us' (who is us, pray tell?) and is trying to get us to quicklynch me (something which is NOT beneficial for town).

Consider what the end result is for him. Lynch me, lynch him, he's accomplished a mafia for a cop trade. More to the point, he has used so much town attention on me that it is difficult for town to figure out what else is going on. Quicklynching only furthers that goal.

VOTE: ABR

BTW, ABR, there are probably several other scum in this game. Mind giving your opinion on other players besides me? I haven't heard any today.

So this feels very OMGUS, and desperate. It's almost like what a frustrated townie would say, but I really don't like the arguments he made.

Like me - I'm posting today after taking a while to respond, I missed the mass day-start PM

and

RL shit on me. I have a few reasons to be slightly delayed in my responses. Now I went on to read the day and make a nice wall for people to look at.

Does that make me scum in your eyes? My sudden increase in post rate?

What makes him an idiot? (Ad Hominem attacks don't help you, trust me I know). A scum he probably would be if you got lynched and flipped town, but how has he lied? He just seems like he's a town who genuinely believes you scumslipped.

The only thing I agree with is this weird "I read the wrong PM" thing, but it's (in my opinion) much more believable to me that a player (regardless of experience) who just got a little flustered and clicked the wrong role PM, because ABR plays (from what it seems) a lot of games.

Do we really believe we have three separate attackers going on?

This wasn't directed at me, but this pretty sums up my skepticism about the whole issue. The question is, how probable is it that 3 attackers is the case? I mean, obviously we have the scum. Next, we either have a vigilante and a serial killer, or some other power role and a serial killer, or two power roles (probably including vigilante).

Me, elusive, goodmorning, you, SilverWolf. Ozgin and Shinobi are probably town, but not as strong. Why dragonspawn?

I'm probably reading into semantics (again), but why do you say "Me,...are probably town,..."? Why do you equate yourself to probable town? I'm not gonna push too much here, though, because last time I was sticky about semantics I was dead wrong, but just something that never fails to grab my attention.

Unrelated to my responses above:
Did we all forget how NakedJogger did that really scummy hammer "Lights out bitches" thing? It's just been bugging me since night happened, and it's gonna be hard for me to get over. The only reason I'm not scolding NJ for it is because a) before his hammer on kling I didn't really think he was scum and b) Since the hammer, NJ has been active and contributing.

-P.S.-

That took me so long to type, I'm surprised nobody has posted before I submitted it.

[goodmorning]

Is there any official source material that specifically says it is 100% impossible? Or maybe that it's just unlikely? I mean, if it's ambiguous in the rules, then it's about as null of an argument as you can get -- you simply cannot know if vf's telling the truth or not.

To restate, the official source material says nothing against it, which means it's possible. It is, however, reasonably unlikely.

That being said, regardless of whether or not vf got a response, I just don't know that I believe the story. The whole "I got shot, revived, my read roleblocked, and two people actually died last night."

If we assume pisskop used his roleblock on vf, that still means there are three sources of attack at night phase. I'm a noob here, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but are there not only like, 5 ways someone can be killed at night in a normal game? How likely is that?

Let's analyse this assuming he's telling the truth.
Mafia don't want to be investigated, for obvious reasons, so they RB him. Maybe they take a shot at him. More likely they settle for the RB because they assume he'll be protected. We'll guess for the sake of the exercise that they killed Boon.
Now there are several other possible players:
Wolves: maybe shot pisskop. Or maybe they weren't willing to take the chance that the Cop could be Maf-only.
SK: There's no real precedent afaik for Cops finding SKs. However, a good SK strategy is to make the Town implode while you steadily pick off the real threats at Night. Losing a PR would help that along. SK could also have thought he WAS aiming for Scum, see next:
Vig: viking's claim was apparently scummy enough that people didn't trust it, which makes him a reasonable target for an impatient or egoistic Vigilante.
Now, we know at least one of these exists because they shot pisskop (presuming no Bus Drivers, which I'm presuming because I want it to be true). If more exist then viking's claim is possible.

The only thing I agree with is this weird "I read the wrong PM" thing, but it's (in my opinion) much more believable to me that a player (regardless of experience) who just got a little flustered and clicked the wrong role PM, because ABR plays (from what it seems) a lot of games.

Back when I had more time for Mafia, I routinely was in 9 games at once. I think my maximum was 13 simultaneous games. And I never once forgot my role in any of them.

You can make of that what you will, but he's already tried to set himself up as superior to the rest of this playerlist. I wonder.

[T S O]

fine, no more responding to idiocy.

[Ellie]

Why Ozgin and Wolf?

pisskop tried to make me suspect Oz when I said I liked his replace in and Dragonspawn vouched for SW which matches my read of her. Active, open about thoughts, and scumhunting.

[Ellie]

More than anything else, Town can't afford to be opaque.

I think some people are too transparent as town

[T S O]

Do you think keeping your reasons for making that post veiled is pro-town?

[MathBlade]

@Ellie I will keep that in mind.

@Ozgin

I haven't. I have been working on potential associations from pisskop NJ VF and when I can ABR.

While I believe VF should be the lynch today still world building.


And being a big bad oaf who is dumb and stupid apparently. Har har Math is a troll. Yes she is. She likes third person and self depreciating humor.

[T S O]

I think at this point we need to lynch Viking Fan.

Reason being if they are town they aren't likely to live very much longer to provide needed results. I also have significant doubts about their claim.
Secondly a doctor is dead. While possible there may be two docs I don't want to bet on us getting results from VF tomorrow. That bet is just bad.
Thirdly I have seen an assocation in D1 between NJ and VF. If VF is scum then we may be able to get NJ afterward pretty damn quick.

Now let's look at the converse and assume VF is town. Then ABR's play with the fake claim and how he immediately entered suggested a strategy of wanting to lynch VF out of the gate. His entire posting isn't really talking about anyone else and it suggests a certain confidence. One I'd expect him to put his own life behind. Therefore if VF is town then ABR very likely scum.

Therefore lynching VF from my POV will net us 1 scum or 2 in two rounds. It's protown to do as we can't put off lynching VF for results that may never be true or that we may never see.

Yay big sticks are awesome

So logically my head says VikingFan. My gut says ABR. Hence I'm down for both.

Yes, this is a really bad post, that wasn't just me rushing.

[Ellie]

If you are scum and see there were two kills and know who your team shot (prob Boon) why invent a third kill?

That

is overcomplicating

[T S O]

Pisskop/VF/NJ/Shinobi/TSO

You forgot ABR, MathBlade. He's also in the scumlist.

[Ellie]

I'm probably reading into semantics (again), but why do you say "Me,...are probably town,..."? Why do you equate yourself to probable town? I'm not gonna push too much here, though, because last time I was sticky about semantics I was dead wrong, but just something that never fails to grab my attention.

The names in the first sentence are strong town reads.

[Ellie]

Do you think keeping your reasons for making that post veiled is pro-town?

Yes, and I'll explain what I meant later anyway

[T S O]

Dear MathBlade: stop your fucking trolling, it's not even good troll.

Dear everyone: stop set-up spec completely.

[MathBlade]

Again TSO no reasons. You just label it as bad. You also don't have the stones to put your vote there either. If you think my posts are bad bring it on. I have a lot of hp as a troll.

No I did not. If VF is scum ABR likely town. And vice versa. My list is how I think things are.

Your posts are just as trolly unhelpful without reasons.

If you want to hunt pressure and ask questions.

This troll will wait for your questions. Til then she will play whack a scum.

[Ellie]

TSO - lock in some scum reads please. I don't see any for D2 in your ISO.

[T S O]

The games vikingfan gave me don't point to it being a feature of past games that he'd be notified upon protection; therefore, it seems to point to him being town.

[vikingfan]

Here are several thoughts:

A, is there a reason NJ's scummy hammer has totally sailed under the radar? pretty much no one has followed up on it from last night even though the twilight had everyone saying it was mega scummy?

B, just out of curiousity, what is the likelihood of another protective role existing in some shape or form? This is NOT a call for a claim, just throwing it out there? In a Normal, I certainly think its possible, I need to go look at some other normals to get an idea. The reason why I bring this up is since it seems to be agreed to lynch me today since I'll die tonight anyway. but if there's a reasonable chance of another protective role, then it seems to be a waste of a good cop.

BTW, if you guys do lynch me, when I turn up town, I'd advise our vig (assuming we have one) to kill ABR overnight, remove a likely lynch candidate and help the town the next day.

[T S O]

TSO - lock in some scum reads please. I don't see any for D2 in your ISO.

I thought it was pretty clear you were one.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ellie needs to be ignored. She is a troll, pure and simple. Cluttering up the thread with nonsense; like a jester. Don't feed her.

[Ellie]

TSO - lock in some scum reads please. I don't see any for D2 in your ISO.

I thought it was pretty clear you were one.

Sure. Who are my partners?

[Ellie]

Ellie needs to be ignored. She is a troll, pure and simple. Cluttering up the thread with nonsense; like a jester. Don't feed her.

This made me laugh and then wonder why you only started pushing this angle after I called you scum

[MathBlade]

Assuming VF is town and telling the truth and what he said is true: (which I doubt)

An argument has been that we should see results before lynching.
1) We waited yesterday and scum fucked it up (if VF truth telling).
2) What reason do we think scum would have to not stop his death today?
None.

Therefore I think we face the facts that if VF is town we will more than likely never see a cop result.
Combine that with the rather outlandish claim it just doesn't make sense.

@vikingfan -- ugh such misrep. Did an association of NJ earlier. You're just my top scumspect.

@ABR I has green skin and big stick I am the troll I can see where it gets confusing on occasion that I have been showing my serious face recently.

[T S O]

TSO - lock in some scum reads please. I don't see any for D2 in your ISO.

I thought it was pretty clear you were one.

Sure. Who are my partners?

I don't really know, don't really care.