Mini 1821 Badass Women U-Pick Mafia - game over

[Aristophanes]

Okie dokes

[Aristophanes]

At least the pool is limited!

[pieguyn]

thing is I think Layla is just scum and I have all sorts of issues with her recent play, but after being that ridiculously wrong on mollie, I have no intention of strong-arming it by myself, rather I'm hoping {you, me, mollie, Fox} can reach a consensus of some kind.

so, if you have any form of a town read on Layla (or even just think some of her posts could be town even if it's not a full town read) I'd like if you could walk me through it.

[Layla]

thing is I think Layla is just scum

I don't believe you.

[pieguyn]

I don't believe you.

is this "your read is disingenuous" or "fuck you, you're going to lose the game"?

[Layla]

Have I ever done the latter?

[pieguyn]

for one, in my entire memory of you, I have never seen you use "she's been wrong a lot" as a reason for thinking I could be scum. usually, when I have hit the stride that I usually do when I'm town and you pick up on it and read me in the way that you did here, you recognize that I straight up cannot be scum because I can only ever play like that and get seriously emotionally invested in games in the way that I do when I'm town (except in the case of multiball, which obviously doesn't apply here). as such, if I'm severely wrong in a game, the approach you take is to still see me as town and recognize that I'm just severely wrong about my reads and troll me/discredit me/not bother dealing with my reads/the kind of thing you usually do which I can't put words to. the scum motivation here would be that you ran out of people to plausibly put as scum without being questioned about it and thus invented a reason to justify shifting me into the pool of people who you could push.

two, tonally, the entire 2223 read as a kind of paper trail post I expect scum to make (and have made as scum) when they want to look like they're running through all the possibilities and being as objective as possible about their reads. this isn't as strong of a point, but it supports the first point: I would expect that as town you wouldn't hesitate to call out "these three people are scum, I have town reads on everyone else".

add to that that even outside of my major town reads, I've seen at least some town pings from everyone else left besides you and Mala, regardless of how weak they are, and kraska's play was still really horrible (I don't care if you call it obviously town, it wasn't).

[Layla]

The thing is though when you're on the stride you're not this horribly wrong.

In case of mollie, the first thing you ever freaking do when you think someone is fakeclaiming is to see if their behavior matches the claim. Looking at that was really enough to see if Mollie was being honest about her claim. And you go standard textbook "lol scum would do this general thing" BS. I went on and pretended that I was willing to lynch mollie to show you more about how she was reacting.

I guess this is partially on me for forgetting to mention this and I mean no offense to anyone involved in this paragraph, but "sprouting BS" is what mollie tend to do regardless of her alignment. (By "sprouting BS", I mean something going wrong in the communication process and both side talking about a totally different thing due to misunderstanding). Since you're keep assuming that people would do exact same thing that you think they would do I will assume the same thing and say that since youve played with Mollie enough you acknowledge the trait.

[Layla]

And the whole kraska thing literally boils down to one sentence.

"Kraska did not meet pie's expectation of how town should act."

[Layla]

Anyway classes so later

[Layla]

Oh and just to clarify, I'm not saying that you never can be wrong.
Usually when you're like this and wrong I go "oh pie's town sheep" and then go "oh she's wrong, ah well."
When I am horrible at playing this game and even I find your whole thing disagreeing, I think that's a problem.

[Layla]

(On an unrelated note, please stop me if I try to join mafia game ever again. I REALLY need a break.)

[Skybird]

I didn't really expect to be alive today. Guess I should know better than to believe Layla/GiF.

[pieguyn]

In case of mollie, the first thing you ever freaking do when you think someone is fakeclaiming is to see if their behavior matches the claim. Looking at that was really enough to see if Mollie was being honest about her claim. And you go standard textbook "lol scum would do this general thing" BS. I went on and pretended that I was willing to lynch mollie to show you more about how she was reacting.

the thing is, though, as scum in a role madness setup, figuring out what you want to claim (or at the very least thinking about and considering things that you might plausibly claim) is literally the first thing you do. I 100% knew that her play came from a position of thinking of town treestump, yeah, but I did not believe this meant that she was one; I figured that she probably came up with the idea of fake claiming it pregame and was playing in line with it the entire game.

in a conversation I had with her after FF7 I learned that she is actually one of the most genuinely suicidal scum players I have ever seen and does a bunch of crazy shit explicitly because she has no problem at all with dying as scum (or at least she told me that she wanted to die in that game and that's why she played like she did in the game, which incidentally was the whole reason I could never see her play making any sense as scum), and she played her role openly in the game thread that game all the way back from D1. I didn't, and still probably wouldn't, put it past her at all.

[pieguyn]

And the whole kraska thing literally boils down to one sentence.

"Kraska did not meet pie's expectation of how town should act."

it absolutely didn't, and I wrote several posts breaking down, in detail, why that wasn't the case. everyone just handwaved it and assumed it was because it didn't meet my expectation of how town should act.

[pieguyn]

in a conversation I had with her after FF7 I learned that she is actually one of the most genuinely suicidal scum players I have ever seen and does a bunch of crazy shit explicitly because she has no problem at all with dying as scum (or at least she told me that she wanted to die in that game and that's why she played like she did in the game, which incidentally was the whole reason I could never see her play making any sense as scum)

this is also why I basically straight up ignored you saying "treestump makes no sense as a scum claim since it's an obvious vig shot", btw, even outside of the fact that I don't think treestump is really that much of a vig-bait claim in the first place.

[Skybird]

Layla and Pie are both town. You guys should stop going after each other and help (clueless) me find scum.

[pieguyn]

GIF, can you walk me through why you have beegirl in your "very unlikely to be scum" pile? I think her play does look town to some degree* but I don't have her in my strong town block.

*to be clear for when mollie sees this, that's my read on her play, but yeah I'm still willing to discount it to follow your read if necessary.

[pieguyn]

Layla and Pie are both town. You guys should stop going after each other and help (clueless) me find scum.

do you agree that {Aris, Foxbird} are both town?

if so, then from your POV, this is a basic POE. what reservations are you having about it?

[Layla]

I didn't really expect to be alive today. Guess I should know better than to believe Layla/GiF.

I never said anything about killing!

[Layla]

Re: treestump
Rule of thumb for fakeclaiming roles as scum in role madness.
You don't claim town-only comfirmable role. My whole point of lynchbait/vigbait was that it was easily confirmable that way.

Re: beeboy
Randomness in role hurts too much to be a scum role.

[Layla]

Rest I don't think I can cut it by phonepoosting so later.

[pieguyn]

Re: treestump
Rule of thumb for fakeclaiming roles as scum in role madness.
You don't claim town-only comfirmable role. My whole point of lynchbait/vigbait was that it was easily confirmable that way.

read the second paragraph of 2263 and 2265 again, carefully.

it becomes 1000% more possible when you're dealing with someone who legitimately does not give the slightest fuck about people deciding to kill her to "confirm" her claim.

[Layla]

But she didn't play suicidal this game, did she?
You tell me that mollie is suicidal as scum, and you tell me that you don't believe mollie's claim to shy people from lynching her. Where's the connection here?

[Layla]

You don't believe mollie's claim because claiming that as scum shys people away from lynching the claim*