Newbie 1346 -- Game Over

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.01

sirdanilot - 2 - Manus Celer Dei, SafetyDance
MNIJ - 1 - Bacde
Manus Celer Dei - 1 - JKMatthews
Snooperfax - 1 - MadWitch

Not Voting: Snooperfax, blizz, MNIJ, sirdanilot

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-04-01 14:03:43)

[blizz]

Wait, wait, wait, lurkers get lynched? It's my first game, and I'm not about to lose it, I'm voting

MCD

!

[sirdanilot]

Just got my pm. Was thinking of declining since I'll be moving, but I don't think it should be too big a deal since Day 1 is three weeks long.

Wait so you think it's okay to get into a game while you know you're going to be v/la? How is this pro-town behaviour exactly?

[JKMatthews]

Just got my pm. Was thinking of declining since I'll be moving, but I don't think it should be too big a deal since Day 1 is three weeks long.

Wait so you think it's okay to get into a game while you know you're going to be v/la? How is this pro-town behaviour exactly?

Wooo wagon time!
UNVOTE:
VOTE: sirdanilot
Is that a joke...? That makes no sense...

[sirdanilot]

^ Can you please explain to me why it makes no sense? It makes all sense to me: Snooperfax gets into the game knowing he'll be V/LA, with the argument 'oh day 1 is three weeks long'. As if we don't need his postings in the first couple of days of that week.

Also, putting someone at l-2 on PAGE TWO is not a very bright idea. Generally you want to see a bit more discussion before someone is hammered.

[sirdanilot]

* of that period of three weeks

[sirdanilot]

Also I forgot to react on this interesting bit

(1)Bacde is town for joining a wagon + trying to gauge reactions
(2)MadWitch trying to pressure a guy who's going to be v/la. Hmmm
(3)MCD not understanding that lurking is bad! Lynch All Lurkers!

1. Firstly, telling who you find town is generally not a good idea. It doesn't help the town team in any way, while it does help the scum team as they know who is generally viewed as town by town and thus threatening to them. In games with more experienced players (which does not exempt you or anyone here, it remains to be seen at what level you guys play, despite the fact that it's a newbie game) people saying that others are town are usually scum, because they know damn well you shouldn't be going around telling people are town and it does make them look more town themselves without actually contributing. This strategy is called 'buddying'.
2. Whether this is iffy or not depends on context. I see no reason not to question snooperfax right now.
3. Doesn't this contradict point (2)?

[JKMatthews]

^ Can you please explain to me why it makes no sense? It makes all sense to me: Snooperfax gets into the game knowing he'll be V/LA, with the argument 'oh day 1 is three weeks long'. As if we don't need his postings in the first couple of days of that week.

Also, putting someone at l-2 on PAGE TWO is not a very bright idea. Generally you want to see a bit more discussion before someone is hammered.

Ok, so it wasn't a reaction test, just had to make sure before I pointed out it doesn't make sense.
You accuse him of not being pro-town in whether or not he chose to play. But if he's not yet playing, his actions can't possibly be pro/anti-town, because

he's not in the game

. You can't possibly think that he's more likely to see a scum PM and go "oh well being v/la will be ok so I'll play the game" than getting any PM and saying "I'm going to be v/la, but I play mafia for entertainment so I will try to play a game of mafia anyway". It's a ridiculous stretch at best.

As for putting you at L-2, it works for me! If you get hammered before the end of page 2, obviously votes 4 and 5 are scum.

[JKMatthews]

So, why such little activity in here?

[sirdanilot]

He was talking about rejecting to confirm his role pm... When you get your role pm (and thus know your alignment) you can either confirm or reject it. If something came up between sign up and confirmation phase, rejecting may be a good idea.
But I will let him answer the question himself.

Posted from HTC phone

[MadWitch]

You guys with your science language. Didn't expect I had already to browse through this list in the link in the OP for RVS/v/la etc. Actually I was hoping snooper would still be there or come back before he leaves, since the time gap wasn't that big. Now it seems he will disappear for some time. So a lost cause for now as it seems.
To add something to JKMatthews, the thing about snooper is he actually is in the game. He is just away for the time and will return at some point, which makes him pretty much a wild card. At least that's how I got it now.

sirdanilot doesn't seem to like it when people get some townie vibes from some players... While I agree the focus should be on the mafia hunt, it's not that much of a deal if someone thinks someone else is more town. I mean in such a small game I expect it would be obvious after some time anyway. And it's at least some kind of statement after all. But that's just me. Seems you don't like it when other players could get some kind of safe hold in the game?

Blizz seems surprised lurkers can be lynched and wagon in this context on manus... why...? If I understood manus right, he was just saying being lurker must not necessarily be bad. I just don't see the consequence here.

[JKMatthews]

He was talking about rejecting to confirm his role pm... When you get your role pm (and thus know your alignment) you can either confirm or reject it. If something came up between sign up and confirmation phase, rejecting may be a good idea.
But I will let him answer the question himself.

Posted from HTC phone

Yes, but until he confirms or rejects it, he's not actually in the game, so his decision is based purely on personal outside-the-game interest of whether or not he wants to play. Implying that he's anti-town by confirming to play the game is absurd.

[sirdanilot]

IC-stuff: If I or anyone else uses an obscure abbrevaition that isn't in the list on the wiki, just ask me

sirdanilot doesn't seem to like it when people get some townie vibes from some players... While I agree the focus should be on the mafia hunt, it's not that much of a deal if someone thinks someone else is more town. I mean in such a small game I expect it would be obvious after some time anyway. And it's at least some kind of statement after all. But that's just me.

Seems you don't like it when other players could get some kind of safe hold in the game?

Hold it right there.

vote MadWitch

That's a misrep (misrepresentation) of what I said. What I said is that outright stating that X and Y are town is not a pro-town thing to do. Don't misrep !

That doesn't mean that you cannot think yourself that X and Y are town; indeed, you can use this info yourself to narrow down your scumhunting on more suspicious people. But saying that people are town is just not a very good town tactic. It is, however, a good tactic for scum as it makes X and Y feel cozy and warm towards that person (buddying).

Yes, but until he confirms or rejects it, he's not actually in the game, so his decision is based purely on personal outside-the-game interest of whether or not he wants to play. Implying that he's anti-town by confirming to play the game is absurd.

People are in the game as soon as they get their role-pm, as far as I'm concerned. As soon as you know your role-pm, you know your alignment and thus what to do in the game. Everything you do after receiving your role pm is influenced by either scum or town motives. Of course outside circumstances such as that he has to move aren't, but the decision you make based on those circumstances is. One would be more inclined to just lurk for a bit as scum than as town; if you are scum, lurking is a safe tactic as you don't put yourself out there as much (and if there is a nice reason to hind behind it's even safer), while as town it's just detrimental to your scumhunting as you get less time to do so.

[sirdanilot]

You know what is also important when scumhunting? Separating theory from the actual scumhunting. Perhaps you should keep that in mind.

[SafetyDance]

Catching up now.

Wait, wait, wait, lurkers get lynched? It's my first game, and I'm not about to lose it, I'm voting

MCD

!

No, you're not:

4. Please submit votes as:

Vote: PlayerName

or VOTE: PlayerName.

Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.

5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.

Read this and try again. Not mentioned in the ruleset either but it's always good practice to put votes on a new line. That way its even easier for mods to see. :moveoverICyousuck:

Lurking is bad and allows scum to hide/not post. Site-meta seems to be slightly ok with it but it's not. I view it very negatively personally. Being afk/being busy irl =/= lurking, either.

^ Can you please explain to me why it makes no sense? It makes all sense to me: Snooperfax gets into the game knowing he'll be V/LA, with the argument 'oh day 1 is three weeks long'. As if we don't need his postings in the first couple of days of that week.

Also, putting someone at l-2 on PAGE TWO is not a very bright idea. Generally you want to see a bit more discussion before someone is hammered.

I'm with Simba, if he's going to be v/la for only a few days then its not going to be a problem, especially since the day

is

3 weeks. It clearly means doing whatever he is doing wont take three weeks and he'll be able to participate. Shadow-hunting much?

Also I forgot to react on this interesting bit

(1)Bacde is town for joining a wagon + trying to gauge reactions
(2)MadWitch trying to pressure a guy who's going to be v/la. Hmmm
(3)MCD not understanding that lurking is bad! Lynch All Lurkers!

1. Firstly, telling who you find town is generally not a good idea. It doesn't help the town team in any way, while it does help the scum team as they know who is generally viewed as town by town and thus threatening to them. In games with more experienced players (which does not exempt you or anyone here, it remains to be seen at what level you guys play, despite the fact that it's a newbie game) people saying that others are town are usually scum, because they know damn well you shouldn't be going around telling people are town and it does make them look more town themselves without actually contributing. This strategy is called 'buddying'.
2. Whether this is iffy or not depends on context. I see no reason not to question snooperfax right now.
3. Doesn't this contradict point (2)?

Point 1 ~ If I said someone was "not scum" does that not equal the same thing? Do you also think, that a read that's got one post, around 24hrs into the game, is one to have full confidence in? Do you think if Bacde comes in a spills the sauce more, my reads won't become more dynamic?
Point 2 ~ Well it's the same thing you're doing. Least you're not a hypocrite I suppose.
Point 3 ~ No, does it? Seems to be your story here. Personally, I don't consider V/LA as lurking. But then some people still think the Earth is only 6000 years old.

[SafetyDance]

IC-stuff: If I or anyone else uses an obscure abbrevaition that isn't in the list on the wiki, just ask me

sirdanilot doesn't seem to like it when people get some townie vibes from some players... While I agree the focus should be on the mafia hunt, it's not that much of a deal if someone thinks someone else is more town. I mean in such a small game I expect it would be obvious after some time anyway. And it's at least some kind of statement after all. But that's just me.

Seems you don't like it when other players could get some kind of safe hold in the game?

Hold it right there.

vote MadWitch

That's a misrep (misrepresentation) of what I said. What I said is that outright stating that X and Y are town is not a pro-town thing to do. Don't misrep !

That doesn't mean that you cannot think yourself that X and Y are town; indeed, you can use this info yourself to narrow down your scumhunting on more suspicious people. But saying that people are town is just not a very good town tactic. It is, however, a good tactic for scum as it makes X and Y feel cozy and warm towards that person (buddying).

Do you react the same way whenever someone in a game makes a list of reads? You're going to have fun deciding where you put your vote in that case.
Why is someone scummy enough to put a vote on for a misrep?

***

There are way too many M's in this game, it will be confusing for a while I think.

@Mod Prod on MNIJ please, he hasn't even posted since day started.

[Nobody Special]

A very tiny formatting change has been made to the rules. It's been bugging me for quite some time, yet I never remember to actually change it when I see it. Thank you, SafetyDance, for bringing it to my attention. The new rule is below.

5. Please submit vote revocations as either

Unvote: PlayerName

or UNVOTE: PlayerName or UNVOTE: . Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.

MNIJ will be prodded in about 48 minutes.

[JKMatthews]

@sirdanilot - the logic of "I won't confirm because I'm town and my v/la will hurt town" is a bit of a paradox, because if someone turns down a town PM, they're no longer part of the town and as such don't care if they hurt town, so they'll play but then they care that they'll hurt town, etc etc. So, as I said, it comes down to personal interest, and calling him anti-town is nonsense.
Also, MadWitch didn't misrep you at all. MadWitch said "I believe your motivations seem to be X", and you replied with "no because the words I said were Y". That doesn't follow at all!

Just noticed also, sirdanilot - no RVS vote? What gives?

Time to stop tunnelling the super-jumpy-outy stuff and read everyone...

[Nobody Special]

MNIJ has been prodded.

[Snooperfax]

No, obviously not since you haven't any votes yet, you are afraid? Why?

Vote: snooperfax

Now your fear is justified and you have a reason to answer at least.

On another note I like how sirdanilot is just implying something negative like lurker with snooperfax just because he hasn't confirmed yet. Seems weird in context that you wasn't doing something like that with the other three you mentioned.

Vote: MadWitch

For voting me while simultaneously throwing suspicion at another. Do you really have such good reads so early to have multiple mafia suspects? Or are you just a monkey flinging poo and seeing what sticks?

[Snooperfax]

Just got my pm. Was thinking of declining since I'll be moving, but I don't think it should be too big a deal since Day 1 is three weeks long.

Wait so you think it's okay to get into a game while you know you're going to be v/la? How is this pro-town behaviour exactly?

I might be low activity for a couple days during the Day 1 phase. Did I imply that I would be v/la for months on end? I really hope you can manage without me for a couple days. I hoped town would be tough enough to weather the storm of my absence, but if not I will bow out and you can find a replacement.

[Snooperfax]

Vote: MadWitch

Triple post to bold vote.

[blizz]

UNVOTE:

@

SafteyDance

, well, it's my first game, and I haven't read that much of the wiki to know how to play, so of course I'm gonna suck. Also, why point out that a user is town? I'm green as grass but I do know that it's bad to point out a player's alignment. Unless you're throwing the game, which I highly doubt, I've got my eye on you. Plus, sirdanilot doesn't have clairvoyance to know whether a player's town or mafia.

VOTE: SafteyDance

@

MadWitch

: To be honest, I had no idea what I was doing. Like a dog without a bone, an actor out on loan...

[Snooperfax]

UNVOTE:

@

SafteyDance

, well, it's my first game, and I haven't read that much of the wiki to know how to play, so of course I'm gonna suck. Also, why point out that a user is town? I'm green as grass but I do know that it's bad to point out a player's alignment. Unless you're throwing the game, which I highly doubt, I've got my eye on you. Plus, sirdanilot doesn't have clairvoyance to know whether a player's town or mafia.

VOTE: SafteyDance

@

MadWitch

: To be honest, I had no idea what I was doing. Like a dog without a bone, an actor out on loan...

I wanted so badly to get on your bandwagon, but I don't see it. To be more clear, your sentences make a lot of sense in isolation, but I don't see how they pertain to SafteyDance's behavior and your subsequent vote. If I'm dense forgive me, but can you remake that case so I can understand?

[sirdanilot]

Ugh I need to get used to this quote+ thing, it wasn't there yet in my days.

Oh and as for the ICing stuff: generally people tend to learn better if they discover their own mistakes, so I'm not going to go around correct mistyped votes. If the mod doesn't count your vote, and you didn't bold your vote, that's probably why Bold your votes ! Not bolding is baaaad.

Just noticed also, sirdanilot - no RVS vote? What gives?
.

I clearly said in this post why I do not random vote; read, read, read ! This is not the first game where I don't random vote, nor the last. I have voted randomly in my early days though but I gave up on it. As you see, my tactic was pretty effective because we're already alive and well, scumhunting on PAGE TWO. That's not something you see often in games where everyone randomly votes because of badgers or ugly avatars ! Unless someone makes a newbie slip or something, but that might have happened as well in this scenario to be honest.

UNVOTE:

(1)@

SafteyDance

, well, it's my first game, and I haven't read that much of the wiki to know how to play, so of course I'm gonna suck. (2)Also, why point out that a user is town? I'm green as grass but I do know that it's bad to point out a player's alignment. Unless you're throwing the game, which I highly doubt, I've got my eye on you. Plus, sirdanilot doesn't have clairvoyance to know whether a player's town or mafia.

VOTE: SafteyDance

1. What kind of defense is that to something like

Read this and try again. Not mentioned in the ruleset either but it's always good practice to put votes on a new line. That way its even easier for mods to see. :moveoverICyousuck:

Lurking is bad and allows scum to hide/not post. Site-meta seems to be slightly ok with it but it's not. I view it very negatively personally. Being afk/being busy irl =/= lurking, either.

? Your defense (though honestly one can hardly see this as an attack to begin with) boils down to 'I'm a newbie so I suck'. You should definitely try harder than that, my friend.

2. You should point out a player's alignment if you think they are scum, but going around shouting people are town is nothing but detrimental to the town's prowess.

@

MadWitch

: To be honest, I had no idea what I was doing. Like a dog without a bone, an actor out on loan...[/quote]