The Palermo Protocol for Punctilious Pro-town Play

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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:03 am

Post by B Rob »

mith wrote:I don't like the idea of out-of-game promises affecting the metagame (like this, or the various "I will never lie when I attach this special promise" gimmicks). I also don't like blanket metagame stuff which people are expected to follow (LAL, for example). If the goal is to encourage good play from townies, a list of common mistakes should suffice; with something like this it's not a big leap from "better play" to "OMG I will rely on this and only this as my guide to catching scum".

(14. I will not rely on this and only this as my guide to catching scum.)
I wholeheartedly agree with your general stance, but what's wrong with LAL? Townies should not outright lie under any circumstances.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:33 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

Cuz Blanket Metagaming Stygmies Creative Play and Intellectual Progress.

It's ok to lie if you know what you're doing.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:36 am

Post by rolandofthewhite »

I dislike this. It takes away from the fun/spontaneity.
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:02 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Twomz wrote:The problem w/ any sort of "plan" is that you need at least 1/2 the town to trust you enough to believe you. When I attempted to use my "i'm a townie, 100%" thing, no one believed me, even after it had shown true in a couple of games already. And i'm one of the people who you should trust when claiming, because unless i'm actually mafia, i'm gonna tell the truth about my role, - some parts only when I think it necessary (i've claimed mafia traitor, SK, and neutral when i've been them, even though I could have easily lied... I thought it was what was best for the town at the time, so that's what I did. I find it easier to win w/ the town when neutral than w/ the scum when neutral anyway).

I'd also like to add a personal note...

#15. If on day one i'm bandwagoned and close to lynch, i'm not mafia, so go ahead and vote for someone else.

(^^^^ confirmable on over 20 occasions ^^^^)
Twomz, that's because anyone claiming townie on day 1 for no reason hurts the town, and a good guy should always vote for someone who does something that hurts the town. Not for metagame reasons, either, it helps the town in that game as well, because if someone claims townie for no reason on day 1, and I vote for them, that should at least discouage anyone else from claiming townie for no reason.

For that reason and others, I'll always vote for someone who's actions seem to be hurting the town.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:38 am

Post by Fiasco »

rolandofthewhite wrote:I dislike this. It takes away from the fun/spontaneity.
And from the annoyance, but I can see your point of view. I think it's a shame that all games are the same in some ways. It would be nice if we had some games where people could goof around, and some games that focused more on good play.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:52 am

Post by B Rob »

I was going to debate the virtues of LAL, but I think I should save it for a game. ;)
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Through power, I gain victory.
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The Force shall free me.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:37 am

Post by Tamuz »

Tamuzi's rules of play:

1) Do whatever you can to win.
2) Push the boundries of people's 'safe' words at all possible moments.
3) Make lists/categories.

Oh yeah, pooky... It isn't a lie if you believe it.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:41 am

Post by B Rob »

Tamuz wrote:Tamuzi's rules of play:

1) Do whatever you can to win.
2) Push the boundries of people's 'safe' words at all possible moments.
3) Make lists/categories.

Oh yeah, pooky... It isn't a lie if you believe it.
Ah, yes: the George Costanza Theory!
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
├óÔé¼ÔÇØThe Sith Code
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:12 pm

Post by Tamuz »

None other.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:24 pm

Post by Lloyd »

B Rob wrote:Townies should not outright lie under any circumstances.
I disagree. See explanation below.
PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:It's ok to lie if you know what you're doing.
I agree.

As a townie, I strategically lied in LOST Mafia, and I would do it again in a heartbeat :)
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:10 am

Post by Fiasco »

I also agree with Pooky about lying.

Just so no one uses this against me: I no longer plan to mention the Protocol in any future games, since it's ethically controversial.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:42 pm

Post by ShadowLurker »

What does everybody think about these 2 lies when town? I heard them from someone in scumchat :P
1) Claim cop as vig
2) Lie about cop results as cop


Anyway, the most important one IMO is
Don't frustrate people. Town are more likely to be frustrated by you, and when they are, it will cloud their judgment and make them look scummy.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:58 pm

Post by Turbovolver »

ShadowLurker wrote:Anyway, the most important one IMO is
Don't frustrate people. Town are more likely to be frustrated by you, and when they are, it will cloud their judgment and make them look scummy.
:oops:
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:41 am

Post by Frozen Atlantic »

I don't have a problem with promise gaming/townie contracts. It's not very "pure", but it adds flavor to games.
Sucking at Mafia does not make you a townie.
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:52 am

Post by Coron »

1. I will read my role PM word for word, then reread it, noting possible ambiguities. Should I ever change my mind on what it says, you may assume I'm scum. (no)
2. When placing a vote on someone who is already close to a lynch, I will first consult the latest vote count, and continue counting from there. Should I ever place the lynching vote on someone, you may assume I meant to do so. (most of the time, but not as a rule)
3. I will not lie about my role, unless I have an excellent reason. If you find such a lie, and I can't name an excellent reason, you may assume I'm scum. (define "excellent reason")
4. When claiming my role, I will double-check that I've spelled the name exactly as it was spelled in my role PM. I will claim all relevant information, unless I have a good reason not to. Should I ever add to my role claim without a good reason, you may assume I'm making it up as I go along. Relevant information includes any night choices I have made, probably with a short explanation for each. I will double-check that I've stated all choices I have made, not fewer and not more. (see 3 and even then see 2)
5. When putting someone at one vote from a lynch, I will say something along the lines of, "WARNING! LYNCH MINUS ONE!". If not, you may assume that I'm being sneaky. (no not really maybe lynch minus one, maybe I'm assuming the town can figure it out)
6. When a single wrong vote could end the game (e.g. on day 2 of a C9 game), I will give a warning if nobody else has done so. (If I think of it)
7. I will not place a vote that could cause a quicklynch until all players have had a chance to speak. This applies to all game days. (any vote could cause "quicklynch")
8: If I realize I made a mistake, I will say so and try to explain how I got confused. (agreed)
9: If someone asks me a question, I'll answer. If someone accuses me of something, I'll respond. I understand that "You're voting for me so you must be scum!" is not a valid response unless backed by some kind of logic. (actually it is assuming that scum don't crossvote and town is more likely to vote scum)
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:33 pm

Post by Thesp »

ShadowLurker wrote:What does everybody think about these 2 lies when town? I heard them from someone in scumchat :P
1) Claim cop as vig
2) Lie about cop results as cop
In a game I ran on MiseTings, two townies were under serious suspicion, and both believed each other to be innocent. One claimed to be the other's mason partner. The other missed the claim, though, and caused the first (a townie) to be lynched. Later he says he would have gone with the mason claim if he'd seen it the first time he read through. :shock:
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:36 pm

Post by VisMaior »

I have seen scum lynched for doing #5.
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