Any reasons? I mean, I can do that, but since both of them are a stable game which is created to be quite balance, I think this it's ok.
If seperate newbie+normals to Open or Theme, that makes more senses.
Anyway, I would do both.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
If the skill level is different, then the elo gain or lost would be different.
If the different group of player is different, then the elo gain or lost would be different.
The only thing that cannot be addressed by the Elo system is the balance of the game. Some games are easier for town to win. Some games are easier for scum to win. I believe Normals and Newbies adress them quite well by limiting the violateness of the game, so that was my basis of merging the game.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
This would work if you standardise it and have specific approved 'competition formats'. There's too many variables otherwise. Replacements can make the game easier or harder for one side, even in Normals there's huge setup variation, player skills etc.
If you picked a set of formats that you'd consider competition approved and you held 'Competition Mafia' then you could probably get a decent representation of who is or isn't good. I'd say it'd have to be something simple like 13 player 10v3. Cop+JK vs. 3xGoons. No in-depth setups. No daytalk etc.
But limiting setups means a lot of the player-base simply isn't interested and making Mafia into a competitive venture is probably not the greatest idea. It's already the kind of game that can rile people up, I think it might be even worse if you attach a 'rating' to each player and have them then play. I can already see arguments like, 'my ELO is higher so you do what I say' type of attitude (which happens in basically every competitive game with some kind of rating system). As much as I love competitive games, Mafia isn't the type of game for that (imo).
I keep thinking of Glecko, which is a ELO system with standard variation, which accounts for too many "variable".
I would keep that in the mind.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
In post 30, rb wrote:This would work if you standardise it and have specific approved 'competition formats'. There's too many variables otherwise. Replacements can make the game easier or harder for one side, even in Normals there's huge setup variation, player skills etc.
If you picked a set of formats that you'd consider competition approved and you held 'Competition Mafia' then you could probably get a decent representation of who is or isn't good. I'd say it'd have to be something simple like 13 player 10v3. Cop+JK vs. 3xGoons. No in-depth setups. No daytalk etc.
But limiting setups means a lot of the player-base simply isn't interested and making Mafia into a competitive venture is probably not the greatest idea. It's already the kind of game that can rile people up, I think it might be even worse if you attach a 'rating' to each player and have them then play. I can already see arguments like, 'my ELO is higher so you do what I say' type of attitude (which happens in basically every competitive game with some kind of rating system). As much as I love competitive games, Mafia isn't the type of game for that (imo).
But yes, it could be done.
The NRG does exist for a reason. They do balance reviews too. Skill level differences are already accounted by the elo system and if the NRG is doing a good job balancing setups, then the variance in setups becomes only a minor factor.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
Some setups are harder to balance than others, though. If a setup's inherently hard to balance, we normally let it run when we don't think its balance can be obviously improved, even if we're not sure where the balance is at the time. If a setup's easier to balance, we can normally hone the balance to a pretty consistent standard (whether that standard is actually the correct one is up for debate – maybe we should make it more townsided than it currently is – but it can be fairly consistent between simple games).
Conceptually that would work but in practice mods like to be "creative" with their formats in normal games. And for better and worse, fully closed formats (as opposed to the semi-open formats that all matrix games are) are what flies in normal games.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
I think the biggest problem is I am not mith. If I am mith, I may as well create competition forum just like epicmafia.com did.
Since I am not mith, my option is to modify the data, not modify the implementation.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
So I finsihed editing the Normals data set, but now I'm lazy..
=(
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
I finished tabulating the Normals leaderboard. I put the code in my hard disk, but left it in my grandma house.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
That is your elo rating. It's like how many stars is your quality, but more complex. People starts with elo of 1500. If you're good, your elo will climb up. If you're bad, your elo will go down.
But what is VERY GOOD PLAYER? can only be solved after I retrieve my hard disk.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
so if I have won 4/5 Town games and 1/3 Scum games, what would be my ELO? (granted at that many games, there is still massive amounts of variance to deal with because it is a small sample size)
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
Just saying 4/5 or 1/3 is not enough data. This is ELO, not fantasy football..
If you lose, but your opponent is tough (ie. the scumteam is demi-god), you lose small ELO point.
If you lose, but your opponent is easy, you lost a big amount of ELO point.
Same way if you win. If you win against tough player, you gain big ELO point. If the enemy is easy, you win small amout of point.
So it's entirely possible for you to have win rate < 50%, but elo > 1500.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
Just saying 4/5 or 1/3 is not enough data. This is ELO, not fantasy football..
If you lose, but your opponent is tough (ie. the scumteam is demi-god), you lose small ELO point.
If you lose, but your opponent is easy, you lost a big amount of ELO point.
Same way if you win. If you win against tough player, you gain big ELO point. If the enemy is easy, you win small amout of point.
So it's entirely possible for you to have win rate < 50%, but elo > 1500.
IDK how you calculate how good the opponent is?
Like for example, I have a game where I was Town and Thor665 was Scum but Town won. Thor665 is really high on the list. So would you have to compare his ELO score to mine in his Scum vs. my Town or something?
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
It depends. Part of why I've been separating out stats for town vs scum on newbie games. Some people are much better at one alignment than the other, so it's hard to say if you should really be equating a win against, say, nacho (much better stats as town, at least in newbie games), when you're scum against town!him vs vice versa.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?