Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Mastermind of Sin]

@MOS, We have all explained to Pine how to best use his role, and he still hasn't, that is truly scum motivated.

...if Pine was scum, why would he not just pretend to listen to us and claim OBVRESULT on someone who has already claimed their alignment?

if you look at the game from Pine's perspective it's pretty easy to see where most of his thought-processes have come from, even if he didn't always think things through correctly.

Elaborate on this.

I have done this so many times it's not even worth it to repeat myself at this point.

[Feysal]

Oh also what do you make of Feysals final post and vote yesterday because it's bugging me a lot right now.

I suppose it would, given your town read on BBmolla, but I don't share that read. I agree with nearly all of your other reads and the reasons behind them, but not this one. At the time I found the claims from both BBmolla and Shadoweh to be suspicious, and voted the one I felt was more likely to be scum. I was also in a rush. To answer what Faraday asked me in #2319, I had skimmed the final pages of the thread, missed the comments about Shadoweh effectively claiming doctor in case the scum had targeted Tammy, and I did not think it through myself. I'm glad someone did, but I don't regret voting BBmolla. In fact, now that I've had time to catch up properly and think things through, I could not be happier seeing so many votes on him.

VOTE: BBmolla

I was not fond of Mastin either yesterday, since his reads made no sense to me. When someone has town reads on my main suspects and scum reads on four of my top town reads, I see more than a little cause for concern, particularly when there are no explanations to be found for those reads. Today he has admitted to probably being wrong about his suspects, which reflects well on him, though I would not say I trust him just yet. In any case, he is not the correct play today, and BBmolla is.

What's a 'cleric' in dnd terms? Is there any obvious power role they would be?

Duh. This was already answered, but frankly I wonder why you would even ask this.

[Junpei]

When someone has town reads on my main suspects and scum reads on four of my top town reads, I see more than a little cause for concern

Never understood this because fallibility, but whatever.

...if Pine was scum, why would he not just pretend to listen to us and claim OBVRESULT on someone who has already claimed their alignment?
.

That isn't a response to what CooLDoG said. CooLDoG said that action X is scum motivated because Y. You said that action X is not scum motivated because why wouldn't action X be action B. The issue here is that all that action X is what happened, not B. If action X is devoid of town motivation but has scum motivation, then pointing out another possible scum action in B does not change anything.

[Tammy]

He actually had two claims that he could have picked to check. Zar's and BB's. He chose CHESSKID. What a horrible choice. But guess what, CHESSKID isn't a half bad scum kill now is it? Chesskid ain't going to draw a doc (sorry CHESSKID, but it just ain't happening this game) to block a scum kill. CHESSKID wagon will never get off the ground. Perfect scum kill target. And that is why pine tried (actually the investigation wen through) to target chesskid.

Pine is not town.

If pine flips scum will that make me town?

When you say Zar, you mean Zdenek right?

Why would Pine flipping scum make you town?

[Tammy]

Shadoweh is Shadowmeh I can lynch it if necessary

If AV is scum I'm looking Shadoweh's way.

I misremembered this before as I thought you said if Shadoweh was scum you were looking AV's way, but still. Can you elaborate on your thoughts?

[Tammy]

Radical thought here: we should focus on eliminating one group first (i.e. go after Shadoweh's buddies) because if both towns are alive in the long-term, our enemy faction comprise a lower% and we have a lower statistical chance of lynching them.

I would agree if Lawful Good town wasn't in such bad shape. I mean I'm going to scum hunt as usual, but focusing on just potential Lawful Evil candidates means that it's less likely for both towns to win.

[Mastermind of Sin]

...if Pine was scum, why would he not just pretend to listen to us and claim OBVRESULT on someone who has already claimed their alignment?
.

That isn't a response to what CooLDoG said. CooLDoG said that action X is scum motivated because Y. You said that action X is not scum motivated because why wouldn't action X be action B. The issue here is that all that action X is what happened, not B. If action X is devoid of town motivation but has scum motivation, then pointing out another possible scum action in B does not change anything.

I disagree. CooLDoG is essentially saying that because Pine did NOT take action B, he's scum. I'm pointing out that *if* Pine was scum, the easiest play he could have made would be to do exactly what other people were telling him to do. Instead he chose to stick with his own plan, however much others disagree with it. I don't see the scum motivation in Pine's target choice.

[TiphaineDeath]

:/ Trying to form an opinion, having trouble, stuck in rehearsal, get back to you guys.

[Tammy]

@MOS, We have all explained to Pine how to best use his role, and he still hasn't, that is truly scum motivated.

Meh, I hate the argument that someone is scum because they didn't use the role the way others think he should have. You can rarely ever win in these situations. When I had a role similar to Pine's, I used it like you guys have been telling him to and there were people who thought I was ridiculous for doing that too.

[Tammy]

I would still back a

Mastin's explanation for his change of read on BBMolla, is partly reasonable, and partly the sort of thing that I would expect from Mastin.

Alignment related? I have to admit I quite liked his last few posts, not that my read of BB has changed, but Mastin seemed like he really believed what he was saying, which has me wondering about my read of Mastin.

[BBmolla]

Shadoweh is Shadowmeh I can lynch it if necessary

If AV is scum I'm looking Shadoweh's way.

I misremembered this before as I thought you said if Shadoweh was scum you were looking AV's way, but still. Can you elaborate on your thoughts?

It just reads a noncommital scumbuddy read. I'd completely forgotten about this tbh.

[Nachomamma8]

yo, mastin.
are you scum or town?

[CooLDoG]

...if Pine was scum, why would he not just pretend to listen to us and claim OBVRESULT on someone who has already claimed their alignment?
.

That isn't a response to what CooLDoG said. CooLDoG said that action X is scum motivated because Y. You said that action X is not scum motivated because why wouldn't action X be action B. The issue here is that all that action X is what happened, not B. If action X is devoid of town motivation but has scum motivation, then pointing out another possible scum action in B does not change anything.

I disagree. CooLDoG is essentially saying that because Pine did NOT take action B, he's scum. I'm pointing out that *if* Pine was scum, the easiest play he could have made would be to do exactly what other people were telling him to do. Instead he chose to stick with his own plan, however much others disagree with it. I don't see the scum motivation in Pine's target choice.

Activly doing something that does not help the town is scummy. Elaborate on the Pine is town point. Show me town motivated actions,

not

the absence of scum motivations.

Also, I am saying that because Pine targeted CHESSKID he is scum.

@tammy, shadow1's case is that I am scum because I think pine is town. Thus, if pine flips scum I am town according to his premise.

[Regfan]

Pine's night actions continue to be very fucking stupid. They're starting to worry me. What do you think of them, Regfan? The CHESSKID investigation is hella dumb. I remember him faking retarded night actions in AFFC, too, as scum.

Yeah, his roleblock claim again and target choice have made me second guess my town-read on him and was why I moved him down the scale in my last post. I'm waiting for him to make a proper post with reads and thoughts + explanation behind his investigation choice before I decide further though.

Can we please have a Mina post sometime today please, I'd like to hear her opinions rather than your recount of them.

How many times do I need to say it - Norman was a policy lynch, scum/town had nothing to do with it, he was playing like a moron and annoying the hell out of most people. Regarding the Kondi thing, you have a fair point but I still don't see it as a particular scum tell - I was interested in kondi's opinion on Norman - you seem to be blowing this way out of proportion.

We're going in circles here. You're stating it was purely a policy lynch vote whereas I'm reading it more-so as opportunistic scum jumping on a lynch with the easy excuse of "I wanted to PL". And yes, the point about Kondi has been talked about more than it deserves, it's only a minor scum-tell in comparison to the sheer amount of scum reads/suspects you've claimed to have all game and the disingenuiness of your scumhunting.

Radical thought here: we should focus on eliminating one group first (i.e. go after Shadoweh's buddies) because if both towns are alive in the long-term, our enemy faction comprise a lower% and we have a lower statistical chance of lynching them.

This doesn't work because the game isn't based on Total Scum Alive vs Total Town Alive but rather Lawful evil alive vs Chaotic good and Chaotic Evil vs Lawful good.

This doesn't make any sense, Regfan. BB already claimed yesterday that he had not blocked Pine, and he also claimed that he thought Pine was town. There is NO way that town-BB would block Pine under these circumstances, so if he got tracked last night to Pine he's already fucked. Therefore there is no reason for him to wait and see if he's caught before claiming another target today, because blocking Pine is an indefensible position

anyway

.

You're actually right on this front. Though I still think you're wrong about BBMolla, other then him though who are your scum reads?

@ Pere

- You stated that you were going to re-read and hunt for Shadowehs partners, where's the follow-up on that? Also you state that you still think my slots mafia, have you read any of my posts at all or are you basing your read solely on Jackal?

@ Feysal

- So is your reasoning for voting BBMolla is purely related to his claim and if so what specifically about it makes you think he's mafia.

@ Nacho

- I'm waiting on your Briz-town explanation still...

[Mastermind of Sin]

@Regfan: I'm still working that out.

[Shadow1psc]

...if Pine was scum, why would he not just pretend to listen to us and claim OBVRESULT on someone who has already claimed their alignment?
.

That isn't a response to what CooLDoG said. CooLDoG said that action X is scum motivated because Y. You said that action X is not scum motivated because why wouldn't action X be action B. The issue here is that all that action X is what happened, not B. If action X is devoid of town motivation but has scum motivation, then pointing out another possible scum action in B does not change anything.

I disagree. CooLDoG is essentially saying that because Pine did NOT take action B, he's scum. I'm pointing out that *if* Pine was scum, the easiest play he could have made would be to do exactly what other people were telling him to do. Instead he chose to stick with his own plan, however much others disagree with it. I don't see the scum motivation in Pine's target choice.

Activly doing something that does not help the town is scummy. Elaborate on the Pine is town point. Show me town motivated actions,

not

the absence of scum motivations.

Also, I am saying that because Pine targeted CHESSKID he is scum.

@tammy, shadow1's case is that I am scum because I think pine is town. Thus, if pine flips scum I am town according to his premise.

I assume that's a typo, but you're taking the easy vote against someone who is obviously town at this point in time, coupled with every other thing I've had wrong with you. You're not generating content, and the discussion on Pine has already been clarified (I'm looking at you MoS), to, anyone thinking Pine is scum right believes

he is lying about his results and did not actually choose Chesskid (/MoI) as a target, and is scum making fake (easy) results

.

We also have to take a step and assert that, if this is the case and CoolDog is not wasting his own time, CD is Chaotic, otherwise he should be generating content elsewhere, and scumhunting with Pine as a 'backup' lynch option.

[mastin2]

yo, mastin.
are you scum or town?

Town.

You?

[Zdenek]

Compare:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3937720
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3964313
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3966003
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3967119
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3967240
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3967534
with
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3998836
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4001692

He forgot that he was suspicious of Pine.

Unvote
Vote Shadow1psc

[CooLDoG]

Compare:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3937720
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3964313
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3966003
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3967119
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3967240
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3967534
with
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3998836
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4001692

He forgot that he was suspicious of Pine.

Unvote
Vote Shadow1psc

Good posting. Pine is still scummier.

[Shadow1psc]

I did not forget, I rethought out the circumstances, and the people around it.

[Zdenek]

I did not forget, I rethought out the circumstances, and the people around it.

You go from being suspicious of Pine to saying that he's obviously town without any explanation of your thought process. I think you're scum who fucked up trying to push a wagon too hard.

[Pine]

This game is moving way the fuck too fast. Having a very hard time keeping up with it given end -of-semester projects and a play that's going to have its opening night on Saturday.

Just finished catching up to the end of D1.

[Shadow1psc]

I did not forget, I rethought out the circumstances, and the people around it.

You go from being suspicious of Pine to saying that he's obviously town without any explanation of your thought process. I think you're scum who fucked up trying to push a wagon too hard.

You're not that dense.

[Pine]

I just skipped ahead to this page, and read Zdenek's case on you in 2517. It has merit, you can't just brush it off with disdain. Explain yourself.

[Shadow1psc]

I just skipped ahead to this page, and read Zdenek's case on you in 2517. It has merit, you can't just brush it off with disdain. Explain yourself.

You're refuting my defense of you? This game.