Mini 1747: Cinnamon Roll Mafia Endgame

[TheCow]

VOTE: toolendeuso

You uh

Wanna expand on that thought?

not really but i probably have to later

[toolenduso]

Your utter inability to understand what I'm saying might be because you're town.

I'll have to consider that a little further though.

I do not exactly understand this perspective. In this example, how would davesaz's utter inability to understand what you're saying make him more likely to be town-aligned?

I would think that town-aligned players could misunderstand as easily as scum-aligned players, and I'm not sure if your post was some kind of offhand and sarcastic comment.

I was proposing a scum explanation for his actions: that he was trying to undermine people's townreads and make people look scummy so that they could be mislynched, as opposed to genuinely scumhunting.

When he replied to it, his response was something like: "like that doesn't even make sense because my motivation was to find scum."

In other words, he gave a town explanation as an alternative to my scum explanation. But he did it in such a way that it looked like he couldn't see things from my perspective at all -- instead of considering what his actions would look like from the point of view of somebody who doesn't know whether he's town (me), he seemed only capable of considering his actions from the point of view of somebody who knows he's town. That only makes sense if he's town.

But then he said that he did understand my arguments, which kind of contradicts my theory.

I've been thinking about it some more, though, and I'm starting to feel like the underlying point might still stand on its own -- that dave has displayed the perspective of somebody who knows they're town (as opposed to trying to convince others they're town).

I wanna go through his ISO once more I think.

[3dicerolling]

Vote Count: 1.4

Cinnamon is one of the oldest spices known. It was mentioned in the Bible and was used in ancient Egypt not only as a beverage flavoring and medicine, but also as an embalming agent. It was so highly treasured that it was considered more precious than gold.

hawkleader3 - (0)
Soapbar - (0)
FA_Q2 - (1) Syndesis
MoosyDoosy - (1) MoosyDoosy
toolenduso - (1) TheCow
TheCow - (0)
Metrion - (0)
Swordsworth - (1) Soapbar
BirdythePhoenix - (0)
iraonavp - (0)
Chaotic Neutrality - (0)
Syndesis - (1) Chaotic Neutrality
davesaz - (1) toolenduso

Not voting: BirdythePhoenix, davesaz, iraonavp, Metrion, FA_Q2, hawkleader3, Swordsworth

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Mod Notes: Metrion V/LA until Monday, Swordsworth V/LA until Sunday.

Day 1 ends: (expired on 2015-12-27 23:20:59)

[toolenduso]

We've had a good amount of fireworks with the Hawk runup and claim. I think we should be looking for subtle opportunism getting onto that wagon.

Let me know if you find anything here btw. Unfortunately at least half of the votes on that wagon weren't serious, so I'm not sure whether it'll actually yield anything but I'm interested to see if you find anything that hasn't been highlighted yet.

[Metrion]

Okay from my initial read through I'm thinking TheCow is fairly town, especially after that vote on Tool. Not necessarily because he is correct but I feel like Town would make a bolder move such as this especially because of his attitude and lack of prep.

Reversely I'm more scum reading Soap. He's not been brought up to much in a negative way, and he seems rather mainstream in his contributions to the thread, otherwise he has done little in the form of questions and role theory. I'd like for them to post more for sure.

[Soapbar]

V/LA until Wednesday-Thursday

I might be able to post from my phone, but that's a big might since I'm not sure how shitty my Grandpa's internet is going to be

[davesaz]

We've had a good amount of fireworks with the Hawk runup and claim. I think we should be looking for subtle opportunism getting onto that wagon.

Let me know if you find anything here btw. Unfortunately at least half of the votes on that wagon weren't serious, so I'm not sure whether it'll actually yield anything but I'm interested to see if you find anything that hasn't been highlighted yet.

hawkleader3 - (6) Davesaz, Syndesis, Swordsworth, MoosyDoosy, iraonavp, FA_Q2 L-1

My vote was RVS.
Syndesis was a naked vote, followed up with "caught scum please sheep" after Hawk replied to it.
Swordsworth piles on with a comment that claims it's RVS, but then says he doesn't understand
MoosyDoosy comes on with the "might as well" post and asks Swordsworth for a explanation
iraonavp's vote had a reason.
FA_Q2 - vote has a reason and I have no reason to suspect

Syndesis vote had all the hallmarks of a reaction test, and iraonavp and FA_Q2 both gave concrete reasoning. If there is scum my bet is on Swordsworth or MoosyDoosy.

[Syndesis]

Why does giving a reason make a vote less suspect?

[davesaz]

OK, I like that question. If it had been a bad reason, I would have jumped on it. So it's more correct to say reasons which make sense, at least.

[Chaotic Neutrality]

That makes no sense. Scum can make up reasons just as easily as town could, and they'll often look better because they're paying attention to how people read them.

Placement of the votes and motivation matter a hundred times more than reason.

[3dicerolling]

Replacing BirdyThePhoenix.

[hawkleader3]

Don't prod. I'm still keeping up with it all. I may make a post about my interpretations of everything tonight, but so far. Nothing has really jumped at me except for TheCow's vote for no reason

[Syndesis]

I find myself adrift in this game.

[davesaz]

Okay from my initial read through I'm thinking TheCow is fairly town, especially after that vote on Tool. Not necessarily because he is correct but I feel like Town would make a bolder move such as this especially because of his attitude and lack of prep.

Is that the only reason, or do you have more?

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Let's discuss Scum Moosy. He's super scum. Why is he still alive?

[TheCow]

Let's discuss Scum Moosy. He's super scum. Why is he still alive?

If you want to dayvig him, be my guest.

I'm liking this comfy toolenduso wagon rn, it has heated seats

[FA_Q2]

That makes no sense. Scum can make up reasons just as easily as town could, and they'll often look better because they're paying attention to how people read them.

Placement of the votes and motivation matter a hundred times more than reason.

I don't like this post one bit.

You cast doubt on Dave's statement but fail to complete your statement. If placement mattered so much more then why did you not bother to address those that jumped on where you consider scummy placement? I would also state you are completely incorrect. Placement matters but scum can just as easily manipulate that as they can come up with reasoning. Reasoning is a powerful tool for town - as the game rolls on scum tend to reveal themselves with inconsistent reasoning and in the motivations behind those reasons.

Speaking of which:

VOTE: toolendeuso

You uh

Wanna expand on that thought?

not really but i probably have to later

No, you really need to now. A vote is worthless without something behind it to get more people to vote.

[MoosyDoosy]

Let's discuss Scum Moosy. He's super scum. Why is he still alive?

Personally I'd rather die as well.

btw, how long can you be afk before you're replaced?

[MoosyDoosy]

Meh, might as well put in some effort before I go afk. I'd prefer if Swordsworth or FA_Q2 get lynched for today. I'd like it if ChaoticNeutrality can give some reasons behind his thoughts rather than soft pushing people and trying to get others to make reasons for him. iranoavp or whatever his name is needs to be looked at again. And by that, I mean his ISO. I said he was no-lynch pile for today but that may change. His vote onto hawkleader3 might have been an opportunity to jump onto an easy wagon and his subsequent jump onto the next popular wagon with terrible reasoning was highly suspect.

If people would discuss what I've said that would be great.

btw, I am Mafia attempting to point people in all the wrong directions so there's actually no need to listen to what I've been saying.

[MoosyDoosy]

I find myself adrift in this game.

This may be the only sane person in this thread other than myself.

[MoosyDoosy]

Example: Moosy is scummy and Tools defense of him feels scummy.

so where exactly has toolenduso defended me?

[Syndesis]

You know you can ask for replacement, right?

[Metrion]

Okay from my initial read through I'm thinking TheCow is fairly town, especially after that vote on Tool. Not necessarily because he is correct but I feel like Town would make a bolder move such as this especially because of his attitude and lack of prep.

Is that the only reason, or do you have more?

Well TheCow strikes me more as Town through his actual effort (even stating so in such a cool manor that makes me think he isn't specifically trying to appear as such) and pushing forward. From what I gather so far he's my strongest read of the bunch, but in the land of the blind the one eyed king rules and all that jazz.

[TheCow]

ye if there's a dayvig out there, pls shoot moosy

[hawkleader3]

VOTE: TheCow

Until he explains the vote on Tool. He has been asked to explain his vote twice and has ignored this question once.