Mini 903 - Owarai TV (Game over... who won?)

[chauchaudotcom]

I don't see any motive for a scum player to promise content knowing they have nothing to deliver, so I don't see any reason to think that HellFire is scum for promising and then not delivering content.

To hope that in the mean time other suspects will pop up (as they have) and then they can successfully lurk their way and at least survive N1.

He would happily lynch a townie.

A misrep. In the event of not having a scummiest he said he would lynch the noobiest (most likely to hinder town progress). Newbies don't equate town.

[xRECKONERx]

^reads like scum trying to setup a townie

My thoughts exactly. This short sentence has somehow convinced me Raivann is town (it reads like it's coming from a townie perspective). It also confirms what I thought about Devestation. Opportunistic "case" on me, that is riddled with holes.

Unvote, Vote: Devestation

[xRECKONERx]

-He would happily lynch a townie.

As CCDC pointed out, this is a blatant, HUGE misrep.

-Lack of any real content in his posts

Quoting one select post from me and saying there's no content in any of my posts also constitutes a misrep.

Wants to have control over when the hammer falls

Why is this scummy? I just want to hammer, because I hate sitting and waiting for someone to hammer. Or rather, I feel the

need

to hammer.

-Offers multiple answers?!?

Uh, did you see my explanation later on? Way to completely ignore the point/resolution of that post.

I'm pretty happy with my vote on Misrep McGee.

[VP Baltar]

If they're not alignment tells, then they can't be scumtells either.

Fair enough, but I did explain why I thought claiming early was more likely to come from scum than it is from town. Your counter argument is that it's noobish behaviour...which doesn't really refute my point.

I don't see any motive for a scum player to promise content knowing they have nothing to deliver

It's called stalling for time.

In the meantime, I think there are things worth pursuing wrt Inquisition and Devestation

I'm not saying those players shouldn't be pressured, but I'm fairly certain that Hell is scum here. You're welcome to do as you please of course.

Things that I think are much stronger indicators of actual scum than anything Hellfire's done.

I don't agree that anything being pushed on either of those fronts is legitimately stronger of a scum indicator than claiming way early is.

^reads like scum trying to setup a townie

My thoughts exactly. This short sentence has somehow convinced me Raivann is town (it reads like it's coming from a townie perspective). It also confirms what I thought about Devestation. Opportunistic "case" on me, that is riddled with holes.

This is probably about one of the worst reasons for calling someone town I have ever seen. Basically equates to you think he's town because he is mildly opposed to Devestation's points about you.

[Raskol]

Hmm. Well, I'm having trouble finding where you explain how claiming early is a scumtell at all, much less a better one than anything else that's happened all game. The last I can find that you mention it is in your ISO 33, where you say this:

Well, it's not so much that I see any actual scum benefit from him doing it as I think he felt pressure that wasn't necessarily there and really did think it would refute the arguments against him. As you said, it's a noob tell (which does not speak to actual alignment).

I do hear what you are saying though Raskol and that is actually the reason I'm trying to question him. I'd like to know what his experience is and possibly read some of his previous games.

You may have some reason in mind but I don't think you've given it in-thread, unless I'm missing something.

[Amished]

@Raskol: I think VP mostly agreed with my point on Hell's early claim as we have a couple experiences together where scum (and only scum, so far) have claimed way too early.

[xRECKONERx]

@VPB:

I don't know how to explain it - basically, I think that train of thought is pro-town and wouldn't come from scum.

[VP Baltar]

The quote you cite is partially what I'm referring to, but perhaps it's not as elaborate as I thought it was.

This is the heart of it:

I think he felt pressure that wasn't necessarily there and really did think it would refute the arguments against him.

To expound on this, scum mentality in the game of mafia (particularly coming from less experienced players) is one of a "guilty conscience". Because scum players know they are inherently guilty, they tend to feel that comments pointed toward them are more aggressive than they really are.

I think this point is evidenced in the fact that pretty much the entirity of the Hell attack at first is summed up here:

probly Hellnfire & chauch.
Hell because I don't think Anon's posts were confusing and his unvote seems fishythefish to me.

Chauch because her questions seem fake.

I actually strongly agree with both of these, particularly HellnFire. He seems very apologetic and eager to appease players when he is questioned.

Unvote, Vote: HellnFire666

Plus your earlier vote.

Then Reckoner voted with no real reason and WHAMO! Hell claims. There was almost no real pressure on him to be worried about. He later says that he felt that was the only way to answer people's accusations against him...which I think is completely silly since it answers nothing (though I guess in some regard it has worked since people started to back off after that).

I think a much more common response from townies in that situation (particularly less experienced players) is to either a) lash out angerly at their attackers or b) just resign themselves to the lynch and shut down.

Claiming early is much more likely to come from scum, however, because it is seen as an easy out that will deter people from the lynch.

@VPB:

I don't know how to explain it - basically, I think that train of thought is pro-town and wouldn't come from scum.

Not really a selling point for me, sorry.

[xRECKONERx]

Doesn't have to sell you. It sold me.

[Raivann]

Vote:Hellnfire666

[Kise]

Vote Count:

Hellfire and brimstone

HellnFire666: 4

(VP Baltar, dramonic, Starbuck, Raivann)

The Inquisition: 2

(Raskol, Anon)

Amished: 1

(The Inquisition)

xRECKONERx: 1

(Devestation)

Devestation: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Not Voting:

Amished, chauchaudotcom, HellnFire666

Threshold:

7 votes.

Deadline:

1 week away.

*checks prod list*

[Devestation]

I'm saying it as I see it, xRECKONERx. You can deny what I see all you want.

[Devestation]

Dev: could you describe the thought process that led to your switch off of the HellFire wagon?

Because xRECKONERx was becoming a lot scummier than HellInFire666, who was at least promising content.

[The Inquisition]

Grr did my post not go through?!? I'll summarize:

1. Rant about mods that require unvoting. It's unnecessary and a ridiculous assertion of mod power into a game in a way that affects the outcome. I urge you to get rid of this absurd requirement, especially since you have a "not voting" category.

2. hell is our lynch today because it makes sense unless we want to mass claim. Because

a. We leave hell and don't get furhter information from him despite the fact that he's claimed VT

b. At best, by getting someone else to lynch we'll have narrowed down the possible power roles for scum. Because, for example, instead of mafia having (in a 3 scum setup) 8 people to try and pick a PR from, they'll have narrowed that number to pick from 7. That may seem a small thing, but consider that future days will also have this issue. Hell will undoubtedly be left alive if we don't lynch, so let's say we manage to lynch scum on Day 3 but didn't before. Scum now pick to find a power role among 3 people rather than 4. That's a significant jump in the probability a PR is lynched.

c. At worst, we let a scum off the hook without any compelling reason.

unvote

vote: HellnFire666

[xRECKONERx]

I agree with the above statement, my niggas.

unvote, vote: Hellnfire666

[Amished]

Does anyone have any other questions before hammering?

[Raskol]

I think the downsides of leaving a claimed VT alive are small.

I think the fact that the argument currently being made for HellFire's lynch has nothing to do with how likely he is to be scum suggests that the above three posters are either scum, lazy townies, or incompetent ones; in any case I don't particularly feel like going along with them.

My suspicion of Devestation has gone up and my suspicion of Inquisition has remained the same (high). I would rather lynch either of them than HellFire, though I'd probably rather lynch HellFire than anyone else but those two.

I have no idea what Amished is thinking. I have no idea what Reckoner thinking, if anything. I currently have a weaker read on many of the players in the game than I would like to have at the end of Day 1. I do not want to end the day yet. Need comment from everyone, but especially from Starbuck and Raivann.

Inquisition, who do you think is most likely to be scum? If you had to lynch someone besides HellFire, who would it be?

[VP Baltar]

Not me.

[Amished]

@Raskol: Inquisition's posts so far haven't really impressed me in content nor number; so I would hope that he posts more. I think xRx is scummier than Dev; but not by much and I think that we have caught scum in Hell so we should just lynch him. Anything else?

[Raskol]

It's difficult for me to regard the claim as anything but a nulltell, which is part of why I'm having trouble understanding how you can be so certain about this.

I'm not against ending days well before deadline

if

we can be sure scum is caught

and/or

we have reason to believe there won't be any good info gained by continuing the day, but afaic neither of those conditions have been met. If we had an approaching deadline I would be 100% okay with just lynching HellFire early but as it is I really don't want to move on to what will amount to a Day 1.5 with a lynch of someone I regard as about random chance to be scum when I have issues with players that haven't been gone through yet.

[Raskol]

Here I am, about to sum up Inquisition's participation in the game.

Post 1: Hey, Amished is scum for talking about the RVS, and also for distancing himself from his scumpartner Raivann who actually now that I think about it isn't scum hehhehe.

Post 2: Hey, I know I haven't done any scumhunting yet but we should go ahead and lynch Hellfire even though I don't think he's scum.

Post 3: Hey, I still don't have any reason to think HellFire is scum and still haven't made any comment on the game but let's lynch him quick because otherwise scum will know he's not a PR.

[Kise]

I have been reminded that the day should have ended earlier. Here is the actual final vote count (post subject 276):

Vote Count:

HellnFire666: 7

(VP Baltar, Devestation, dramonic, Raivann, Starbuck, xRECKONERx)

Amished: 1

(The Inquisition)

Starbuck: 1

(Anon)

Not Voting:

Amished, chauchaudotcom, HellnFire666, Raskol

Lynch scene coming soon. If anyone has any final words before the thread is locked, I'll give you

10

13 minutes to speak your piece.

[VP Baltar]

What, who the hell is a double voter? If you're town, you had best claim it immediately.

[Raskol]

If there's a standard double voter it has to be Inq, since he's the only one on the wagon now that wasn't on it when there were 6 votes and 6 names listed.

However, if he's a double voter then that fact wasn't indicated on the votecount when he was voting for Amished.

Either this is mod error, Inq is a double voter whose double votes only show up when there are enough votes to lynch, or we have someone in the game who can vote out of thread (ie kill the mod this ain't a normal mini).

I'm already dead.

[Kise]

Everyone's memories are beginning to come back. There were villains amongst you all that plotted to kill the beloved ice cream man, leaving the city with no more frozen goodness. Something unknown happened to cause the memory loss, but VP Baltar is the first to remember one of the culprits' faces.

He rallies a majority of you to turn your attention to HellnFire666, who brushes his coat off only for a firearm to slip out from within.

HnF666:

"Oh noes.. okay, hold on a second, everyone."

Raivann:

"Wait for what?"

HnF666:

"For... for me to get my gun!"

He bends down to retrieve the weapon but the dynamite strapped around the mod's body blows up. Chunks of pink ice shards fly everywhere, along with the truck, and engulf HellnFire's body. He runs like a mad man, screaming and searching for a spot to cool off...

Like Indiana Jones, VP throws a lasso towards HnF and catches him around the neck, tugging at it until he chokes the man out.

---

HellnFire666 -

Mafia Goon

- Lynched Day 1

---

Time for the first of many (maybe) night phases.
The night will end in 72 hours.
If you are permitted to do anything at night... then do it.