Open 536: Faith Plus One Game Over! Mafia Win!

[T S O]

Guyett was town though

[pieguyn]

oh wow
I need to learn to read .-.

[T S O]

ah pieguyn, you amuse me

[pieceofpecanpie]

Very well played scum.

Sorry to Taylor, shos and xScorp. I thought the three of you had a lot going for your town play and individually made some great posts.

I didn't realise this was your first mod game bubba. It was ace, you can mark it down as a job well done, keep modding and you'll go from strength to strength.

[shos]

Oh mAAAAAn.
I hate quickhammers by reckless townvoting :/

TSO, very well played. Last day my townrrad on scorp was bigger than on you but still DAYUUM.

[pirate mollie]

As the only person who thought TSO was suspicious on day 5...seriously guys?
This was a complete uphill battle at the end and I had 0 chance to turn the game around once Taylor died.

scorp that is not true, I was sus of tso too starting d4 when it seemed like the only time he would show would be for dinner. etl and guyett kept warning me off of him.

in fact if I am not mistaken that was 1 of the keystones in shos's argument as to why we were a scum team was that we were both going after him.

can some1 plz tell me that pecan protected groovy kid n1?

[shos]

Lol.
After heliums flip - i was prepared to relook at tso.

Remind me to never alliw guyette into a lylo..

[Guyett]

Remind me to never alliw guyette into a lylo..

probably for the best :/
I had bad tunnel vision hoping that my fake hammer had worked

[pirate mollie]

shos you and I trolleytracked on each other hardcore. we just should have had our 1v1 d4 and been done with it.

[pirate mollie]

also shos,

how do you feel about 1v1s now? what was your perspective before and does this game change how you view them? I think after being in 1 that cost us the game I think unless it is a d1 large I am inclined to let them do it even if I think both parties are town. what are your thoughts?

[shos]

I dont think it cost us the game, not at all. This was not a 1v1, too; my vote jumped quite a bit. Eventually, both wagons were on townies, a sthar wagon could have formed but unlikely.

In lylo i think it woulda come up to a real 1v1 between me and sthar. If id have won that, then wed probably lose 3p lylo to tso anyway :/

[N64Lord]

I will only have time for this game tomorrow. Be ready for me to take over this thread but do keep yourselves busy until that time.

So basically I saw this as claiming intent to spampost,(his past games being up to interpretation, but definitely spamposting compared to a lot of people) so I had Mollie as policy scum in my mind for her d1 attack all game. I didn't mind your 1vs1s, but I had a queasy feeling that you were trying to force disagreements into an assumption that the other person is wrong intentionally and that its a given that they will be on you afterwards.

I think I put TSO as a scumbuddy before I was lynched, because as people lost interest in the game, he kind of crouched behind his read on an unpopular townie that he could prove, but he didn't need to as long as his consistent belief and lack of new outrages. That's how I've pocketed votes as scum before.

From the dead QT

Building off of Town is overlloking Guyett-Stharhr, I can say that the essential problem with the fake hammer is that it is a public interpretation of how he reacts, instead of how sthar8 has been playing, or what he directs his pushes onto, or cheap anti town tactics to get support.

I didn't like shahr8 play after the fakehammer even onto immediate things during d3, but sthar8's propositions made few splashes from either side during the rest of the game, so his status as semi confirmed was never at risk, while pecan himself was minimized by cheap shots and the credibility of whatever he would come up with after he returned. It's easy to blame Guyett for derailing the game, but the real damage of the unconditional read on sthar8 was that it marked the big dropoff in interest that could be seen forming even during the Pasch lynch, and definately by d6. Lurking wasn't the core problem. It was settling for small things to hurry the game along and end it already. Pasch pretty much had a 1-1 reason for being lynched that didn't demand people put in new input, and the last lynches were kind of willowy, and people got persuaded that alignments could be told by the better players without casing the targets over.

also from the qt

I guess I should defend Pecan pie, since I'm occasionally a chronic lurker. It's of course not helpful, but a lot less hurtful than if he's forced to coast and make hard reads or votes. As much as it breaks the "pace" of the thread, its better to let people argue so you can not only follow a train of thought, but make sure the intention bejind it reflects the varying level of certainty that should come from someone who's making up his mind about something that he has no foolproof knowledge of. Also taking potshots at this point gets towncred without finding the scum, and when he speaks up scum can claim he's spewing bull because of evidence that he's not attentive. Lose-Lose.

[T S O]

if I could improve on anything as scum, what would it be?

[shos]

You played really great this game. I have nothing to add. Lemme read those QTs.

[shos]

UGH.
that was a pain to read.
we should've totally at least lynched Sthar. he got away too easily.

I think I'd be satisfied with a lose if it was on a 3p lylo with TSO; he played brilliantly, and his WK on me worked on me like magic. I was clearly wrong about Helium, and reading guyett's ISO made me come to the right conclusion, but TSO's townread was just...too good. Damn. you played well.

Mollie... *sigh*

[Antihero]

Sorry I flaked, i really wanted to stick with this game, but I just couldn't deal with RL and mafia (and I unfortunately still can't... :'( )

Had I remained in the game, I probably would have gone after sthar8 eventually, but I probably would never have caught TSO, though. He was in my solid town list. Good job, TSO.

Also, you guys are stupid for lynching mollie. Literally everyone with any meta knowledge about mollie or I knew from the start we were obvtown (and were pretty vocal about it).

[XScorpion]

For me, it was either lynch shos (town) or lynch mollie (town). Did not have much choice there.

[sthar8]

my notes:

TSO, seriously you are one of the best scumpartners I have ever had. Absolutely spectacular about keeping away from associatives, willing to risk yourself to generate noise when it's needed, good insight in the QT. You also mostly get my style of manipulation and our theater was spectacular. If I had to pick an ideal scumteam, you'd be on it. You said at one point that if we lost it would be down to those damn coin flips; we won because you were strong enough to handle it.

I know you had some issues with me before the game, but I like you as a player and as a person. I look forward to playing with you again. All game haze aside, you remind me of the guys I play meatworld mafia with.

---

My play this game was pretty constrained by meatworld pressure, so I went for the "make noise and cause chaos" plan. The idea was that I would be suspicious loudly and contentiously, with setup based townplay countering my absent analysis until my eventual lynch. Then my partners could coast to endgame. Obscurity's temper tantrum was a huge setback, and the coinflips did not favor me as a gambler. All of my plans were predicated on keeping the game as short as possible. Guyett's fakehammer was a lucky break, but I think I could have yelled my way out of that wagon. I probably would have been lynched the next day and TSO would still have likely won.

---

Mollie, anti, grim, guy, mastin and ETL- Seriously, I like all of you and it was incredibly painful watching you go nuts on each other. You all let the yelling get in the way of playing the game, and you all just could not accept that your piece of the picture was not the whole thing. If you had all cooperated in putting the pieces together, scum would have been fucked.

---

I wanted to wait until post to say anything, but I replaced into this game because I had been reading it recreationally and one of the players I thought was scum requested replacement. I had figured out that TSO was scum and who taylor was, and I sent bubba a note asking if I could go on the replace list with a preference for scum, because I though being on a team with TSO and playing against ETL/Mastin would be really fun. I thought there was a good chance that grim or mollie was my other partner, too. I was right about how fun the game was, and I wanted to say thanks to all of you. Grim and mollie, I'm going to hunt you down and make you play as my partners at some point.

[T S O]

Thoughts:

This game, I had serious fun. It was a nailbiting ride right up until the end, so much so when I saw I had victory at my fingertips with the hammer I reloaded the page over 5 times to make sure I wasn't going to fuck the win over. A really, really incredible game the whole way through, possibly my favorite game on-site, right up there with War in the Middle East.

Starting thoughts were that although I was my preferred alignment (undecided on whether I'd prefer Serial Killer or this; arguably the comradeship of scumbuddies in the QT helps tip the balance), from what I could see our scumteam wasn't particularly strong. Obscurity had completely flaked, and I had no idea he was active lurking. willwang was also missing in action, leading to a zero-man scumteam in the first 15 pages. Did this help? Probably. Often strongest reads are formed in this period of time, and you could see Town turning on itself. I almost got repped out before I got my shit together (at this stage I was playing over 12 games and it's something I will never ever comprehend doing again) and just made it in before bubba pushed me out in place of a replacement.

Starting suspicion on the Taylor hydra was fairly bad, guys. It's easy to talk when you know the scumteam, yes, but their play was fucking oozing and bleeding town. Grimgroove, in particular, seemed to be on some path of destruction against him. Seeing my chance to grab some towncred, I decided to white knight them. Guyett continued on about some stupid associative which was what-the-fuck level but started to irritate me. I talked him down, yelled at Grimgroove a while. White noise.

Then Sthar replaced in for willwang. This was quite unexpected. Me and Sthar had ...issues in another game, where my life was going badly and I started insulting him back. It's something that's definitely over now, but it seriously pissed me off at the time. Suffice to say, there was history there. Briefly I contemplated replacing out, but I had a decent foundation in the game at that stage and I also knew Sthar was a pretty strong player from that game. I wanted to see what we could achieve together.

Sthar: what about my start convinced you I was scum?

Then Obscurity happened. Shos called him out for active lurking, he got force-replaced out and he fucked his slot by saying he was aative lurking. Right there, that sealed the d1 lynch. It was such an incredibly scummy post I barely wasted time on an agenda to save Majiffy, who deserved serious credit for replacing into a doomed slot. And really, he didn't do a huge amount wrong, but I felt he might might might have been able to wriggle out of the d1 noose, and claim a PR or something to help us. Something no-one picked up on was me talking itt to Majiffy about his plan in #1629. As it was, everyone claimed, Taylor proposed a decent strategy and Majiffy got hung.

Sthar and I lamented how we hadn't even managed to get towncred on Majiffy's wagon, and we were now down a member (against a set-up which is townsided anyway, in my opinion, but was ridiculously so at that stage). Worse still, Grimgroove had given a list of possible targets with my name and Sthar's on it. If he was allowed to stay alive, we could potentially have 4 confirmed-town players, or one of us auto-dead. With that in mind, we went for the Grimgroove shot. And we nailed it.

Out of interest, who did Grimgroove investigate?

With Grim shot to shit and the RNG on our side, Sthar and I embarked on a bit of scum-theatre. This wasn't hard to fake, because it wasn't fake. Then Guyett and Sthar pulled their fakehammer shit. For what it's worth, that trick has ran its time with any player from pre-Sept '13. I always check the vote counts when someone hammers me, as scum OR as town. Sthar shouldn't have been cleared on that. Annoyingly, the whole game agreed Guyett was Town. This meant I had to release my tunnel, which was probably for the best anyway, but meant more work. My WK-reads in shos and Taylor were backing me, which made me nigh-unlynchable. Someone had to be found to be lynched, and Maestro was the man this time around. Honestly, I didn't interact enough with him to vote him, and that should have been suspicious. We pushed it through, but RNG fucked our Faith Healer kill.

I'm not going to continue typing endlessly. This pattern continued. We pushed lynches. We missed kills. Rinse and repeat. This game was incredibly hard with us having 2 conftown players, albeit one afk, and getting no nightkills. Sthar was positive when I began to get irritated. This definitely helped. We persevered in lynching, and it worked. This game had an incredibly strong playerlist. There wasn't one Town player who I would consider near bad. No Village Idiots, nothing. Anyway, we finally nailed our Taylor kill, and the first chink of armour cracked in the armour of the Town. We genuinely couldn't believe our luck when molliie was lynched. Every other mislynch had evidence to back it, some sort of case. There was NOTHING on mollie. It was incredible. She started getting Townier and Townier when she became in-danger, to the stage where I nearly wanted to say stop because it was so horrible to watch. Her play didn't deserve that.

We got to the final day, and we all know what happened. Guyett placed votes, and Sthar brilliantly set out his stall to semi-confirm shos as scum. Truly top-notch play. And the rest is history. I placed the hammer. We won the game.

#3198 made me shed a tear, by the way. them feels, mollie.

Final thing here is I've got to give a shoutout to firstly Majiffy, but secondly and far more importantly, Sthar. You were magnificent, and it was a total blast playing with you. I felt our interactions alone ruled us out as a scumteam, which is usually nigh-imposible, but we pulled it off. I had serious fun playing with and against competent players, but none more so than you. Truly, remarkable.

lmao this is the longest post I've ever written here

[pieguyn]

grim is fun to play scum with \o/

I almost died when mollie got lynched. from what I could remember she was obvtown and then she got lynched and I was just "..........what"

I had XSco and shos pegged as town. imagine if I didn't replace out

(against a set-up which is townsided anyway, in my opinion, but was ridiculously so at that stage)

this setup has never been won by town. I was praying in the dead QT this would be the first but then fakehammer and everyone in the dead QT saw through it and NO ONE in thread did and then you two evaded that fate with your excellent play. very wp

[T S O]

yes it has, Titus was a Faith Healer in that set-up, let me link

[T S O]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30411

[XScorpion]

I'm never falling for that fake hammer bullshit ever again even if the rest of town disagrees.

[shos]

Yes, this was a wonderful game. I have more to say but i will only do that in a while.

Shouldnt have lynched helium. Could sefinitely have lynched sthar. Would never lynch TSO.
Vgg..

[sthar8]

Sthar: what about my start convinced you I was scum?

Uh, I think it was 586? IIRC you were wk-ing taylor hard, trying to establish yourself in a position of moral authority, and still buddying the players you were yelling at. Plus I know for certain that ETL is pretty good at the fakerage, so that post seemed manufactured. Basically you were arguing with town about town in lieu of scumhunting, which is very safe for scum whose partners are absent. That and your whole attitude up to that point was a little off.

Nothing good enough to lynch on if my slot had been town, but as an observer I was pretty confident.

I'm never falling for that fake hammer bullshit ever again even if the rest of town disagrees.