League of Legends (Old)

[Saki]

It's not like I can't bring him top - I've beaten ranged champions before with the monkey (just handily beat swain several days ago), and I've got a 100% win rate vs. Jax with wukong as well.

He's a strong top.
You should be good.

[Oman]

I am somewhat worried that I won't be able to play Wukong jungle, because the difficulty of the jungle is gonna go up apparently and wukong's first clear is very bad, health-wise. I may have to stick to wukong top.

Looks like sejuanni is just going to be shelved. I'm obviously counting that chicken way too early, but the girl has always had massive problems with clear speed, and pre-six her ganks are okay against non-mobile champs, and almost shut down against mobile or well warded champs. Even after six she has to commit a lot of resources (including health) into a successful gank.

I'm not saying that Sejuanni isn't a lot of fun, or doesn't have a lot of awesome awesome abilities, but I can't see a more dangerous, more complex, more contested jungle being the place for her. If if her first clear speed increases for whatever reason, she might be able to do it by just never being in the jungle after level 3.

Also everything above applies to nautilus, who (despite some buffs and an awesome piece in "A New Dawn") is still incredibly luckluster for me to play if the enemy jungler has a shred of awareness.



That all said, reworks are always interesting and I'd love to see how this changes the game a little. I just have a lot of suspicions that Sej is going to lose her spot on my roster (she's on the flowchart under Amumu banned? ---Yes--> Pick the Boar!)

[Saki]

Her clear speed is amazing and the mobility that Q grants her in the jungle isn't to be underestimated.
I don't think a more dangerous jungle would be any challenge for her.

I won't say anything about her pre-6 ganks though, I haven't played her recently.
You can't exactly do the season three exhaust-smite sejuani anymore.

[Oman]

Her clear speed is amazing

Not really.

To have a good clear speed:
1) you won't before level 5. Thems facts. You'll take a lot of damage, have no inbuilt sustain, and be chugging pots constantly.
2) You'll be maxing W. That's not bad per se, but you're taking a pure damage skill and leaving your mobility and CC skills at rank 1. It's a sacrifice.
3) before about 1-2 full items (somewhat alleviated by quill coat) a full clear, or even just buffs leaves you too low to gank.

A lack of inbuilt sustain is honestly her problem (also worth noting she's not worth buying lifesteal or spellvamp on...)


Someone tell me if I'm talking out my arse here, but that's my Sejuanni experience. No sustain, struggles early, has a huge effect in late-game teamfights, useless against splitpush comps for the most part.

[BROseidon]

You're supposed to not max your mobility and cc skills first most of the time...

[Oman]

I feel like Sejuanni suffers if she does that because she's not bringing anything else to the table (except tankiness).

EDIT: Then again I can think of zero others ways to play her viably than W first to the max.

[FakeGod]

You're supposed to not max your mobility and cc skills first most of the time...

You need to max q on vi jungle

[animorpherv1]

I never got that much. I always did fine maxing W or E first, cleared pretty well (auto-e-auto for the attack speed and %hp damage) and never lacked cc for ganks.

[JasonWazza]

I never got that much. I always did fine maxing W or E first, cleared pretty well (auto-e-auto for the attack speed and %hp damage) and never lacked cc for ganks.

The reason for maxing Q first is generally for having 2 Q's per gank, which if you do it right (Q>auto>E) shreds people really hard.

[BROseidon]

You're supposed to not max your mobility and cc skills first most of the time...

You need to max q on vi jungle

It's also your main damage skill for ganks and helps fine with clears

[Saki]

Her clear speed is amazing

Not really.

To have a good clear speed:
1) you won't before level 5. Thems facts. You'll take a lot of damage, have no inbuilt sustain, and be chugging pots constantly.
2) You'll be maxing W. That's not bad per se, but you're taking a pure damage skill and leaving your mobility and CC skills at rank 1. It's a sacrifice.
3) before about 1-2 full items (somewhat alleviated by quill coat) a full clear, or even just buffs leaves you too low to gank.

A lack of inbuilt sustain is honestly her problem (also worth noting she's not worth buying lifesteal or spellvamp on...)


Someone tell me if I'm talking out my arse here, but that's my Sejuanni experience. No sustain, struggles early, has a huge effect in late-game teamfights, useless against splitpush comps for the most part.

You're maxing E. You should be maxing E.

[Saki]

WEWQER then R>E>W>Q

I feel like Sejuanni suffers if she does that because she's not bringing anything else to the table (except tankiness).

Grab a Liandries and you can get bruiser-level damage.

Also, the %HP true damage eats through enemy tanks (*cough* Maokai/Alistar/Mundo/Leona/Braum*cough*)

[Saki]

AoE damage on E is not bad for clears too

but please don't rush liandries because you should at least have a randuins first

[Chevre]

the mention of flowcharts made me find this

which a) has probably been shared before and b) isn't probably all that useful but it was pretty funny

btw I'm out of commission for a bit longer (LoL) because my mouse is randomly dying at times and I need to get a new one. HOpefully I don't forget all my leet skillz

[Ankamius]

I never got that much. I always did fine maxing W or E first, cleared pretty well (auto-e-auto for the attack speed and %hp damage) and never lacked cc for ganks.

The reason for maxing Q first is generally for having 2 Q's per gank, which if you do it right (Q>auto>E) shreds people really hard.

Q is your main nuke even through the middle game.

[Saki]

this

I never knew GP was that goodlooking

[Chevre]

I don't know like any of their names. I just recognized Annie, Garen, Lux

And...there can't really be a champion who looks like Uncle Sam, can there?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay

For Six (VI), I figured w-max because you USE W ALL THE TIME ON EVERYTHING LIKE CAMPS AND IN GANKS??!?!?!?!?!?
E-max is bad. The cooldown decrease doesn't give you more attacks when they matter usually, and the damage increase isn't important enough compared to the other skills.

[Saki]

I don't know like any of their names. I just recognized Annie, Garen, Lux

And...there can't really be a champion who looks like Uncle Sam, can there?

That's Ryze. Wearing the Uncle Sam Ryze skin. Some skins make really patent references to stuff.

The Uncle Sam reference probably would've been better with Gangplank.

[Saki]

I don't know like any of their names. I just recognized Annie, Garen, Lux

And...there can't really be a champion who looks like Uncle Sam, can there?

what're you talking about?

[theelkspeaks]

I don't know like any of their names. I just recognized Annie, Garen, Lux

And...there can't really be a champion who looks like Uncle Sam, can there?

That's Ryze. Wearing the Uncle Sam Ryze skin. Some skins make really patent references to stuff.

The Uncle Sam reference probably would've been better with Gangplank.

but but but Minuteman Gangplank??

[Voidedmafia]

ut but but Minuteman Gangplank??

Is that a Legendary skin or just your wishlist? (that would be cool, though).

Those charts are funny as hell, too

[animorpherv1]

ut but but Minuteman Gangplank??

Is that a Legendary skin or just your wishlist? (that would be cool, though).

Those charts are funny as hell, too

No, that's an actual skin.

[Voidedmafia]

No, that's an actual skin.

Ah.

The splash for the Udyr chart is badass, btw.

[mykonian]

I don't understand why clear speed is the stat to talk about with Sejuani. She's a tank jungler. Tank junglers aren't quick farmers. They aren't good duelists. They might have decent ganks, but all that's not the point. It's 5v5's they'll like. So yes, you'll be kicked out of the jungle by the dick who picked lee sin to show he's almost insec, and that's never really going to change. He can have your wraiths a couple of times, just go elsewhere. He should be ganking non stop: it's not as if he can keep you down forever, and he is losing his window of opportunity, being an early game ganking jungler.

If clear speed was a stat we remotely cared about (and there was a time it was considered important), we'd be seeing pheonix udyr jungles, shyvana's, mundos.

And idk, last time they buffed the jungle this would be the end for mummy at that time as well. As if, he always stayed high in the winrates. Because it really doesn't matter how much your first clear hurts. It'll hurt anyway, strong or weak jungle, your first clear is going to cost pots and you'll take some blows, and if your jungle opponent gets on you with a bruiser you are in big trouble, probably flash-or-die trouble. That's the downside that goes with the upsides of the champion.