Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[skitter30]

snip

This is my first time pure vibing you like I am used to.

kk happy u got there, slightly worried it's cuz at this point literally everyone is townreading me and i'm not a viable push anymore

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i don't think ari is as much of a proxy sort for rc anymore as tw would be, i'm realizing

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no, he was for very significant portions of the game, and that is why we almost lynched him and ptu the game on hold for like 4 irl days, remember?

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i don't think ari is as much of a proxy sort for rc anymore as tw would be, i'm realizing

I disagree.

Can you please not ruin this Ari lynch? Like I am exhausted and it’s super close to L-1 if not there already.

in a vacuum/pure reads way i'm at the point where tw is a better proxy for rc than ari is

but i don't think that it will necessarily be beneficial to force the gamestate to go that way at this time
but i do think it will probably resolve the mess faster

[skitter30]

no, he was for very significant portions of the game, and that is why we almost lynched him and ptu the game on hold for like 4 irl days, remember?

I'm really sorry about that. I do feel bad.

I just legit couldn't be here.

I should have accepted my lynch then instead of dragging all this out because what a shitshow I've created

i dont' blame u for that, obvs work/irl comes first
just kinda deliniating the outcome that it did have on the game

[skitter30]

nope i think 5 votes rn
teacher was already on

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Ari town lunch TW
Ari scum lynch RC then if RC scum lynch TW

this is backwards

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you lot exhaust me

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Ari town lunch TW
Ari scum lynch RC then if RC scum lynch TW

this is backwards

Why do you say that?

I think RC was gonna bus Ari for cred then abandoned it when I didn’t play along in his scheme.
If Ari is town that theory is invalid making RC more likely town.

you know what
this is silly
ari isn't a good proxy for either of them at this point

VOTE: tw

[skitter30]

i actually have no idea why we're trying to lynch ari rn besides for, like, inertia

[skitter30]

If he's town it resolves itself which isn't true for Town!TW.

One is probscum tbh because the alternative is that they're both town and are digging a hole with scum for the rest of us. Which would be disappointing.

why ari over tw rn?

Tinfoil stuff. Math got to me a little bit. Besides that I don't have strong reasoning I'm kind of out of tune with the shitstorm that is that trio. If you wanted to Lynch between RC/tw I wouldn't mind.

I've finally realized that lynching ari ... willl not actually be super helpful wrt the other two, or with rc in particular

I think i'm ok with tw today and using that flip to evaluate rc tom if he's still alive

[skitter30]

mathb, you've been stellar this game. i can tell you've improved a lot. just please don't waste the d1 lynch on ari.

But he’s fucking scum.

Asking between RC/TW is probably SvS or TvT and like it just sucks.

If it’s SvS then the worst gets lynched every time and Raybells rides the cred,

If it’s TvT a lynch on lolcatting obvScum is gone

Like I get wanting to solve it but at what cost?

I really dont think they're the same alignment

[skitter30]

The vig better shoot Ari if we have one. Because I can’t ignore RC+Me+Titus+BBMolla read I just can’t.

I endorse this product and/or service ^

[skitter30]

Like 25 pages sprung up overnight

The tw/rc/ari thint has been going on for like 70 pages now

This kinda needs to end

I think i'm changing my mind on ico, he's probably town

I think that a tw/rc/ari solve is kinda ridiculous, but there's at least one scum in tw/rc and we need a flip there imo

[skitter30]

Ok a few things:

1. I dont independantly townread ari but working him into a tw/rc team just like ... doesnt work rn. If rc is scum with him ... he almost got him to a lynch and then backed off, and if he had decided to bus i dont think he'd give up on the plan halfway, if rc is scum he always outlives ari and he'll look awful whenever ari eventually flips and he just knows how to handle associatives better than that. If tw is scum with him ... tw decides to pick a fight with rc to protect ari of all people ? Like idk i dont think he does that (no offense ari).

2. Ari at this point is like muddled with tw/rc and the associatives dont really make sense so i kinda want to sort out tw/rc first and then return to ari

3. Tw's interactions with ari feel buddying-y, and i think it worked

4. Rc is being ridiculous rn, and i think he's gotten to the point where 'if they arent siding with me i will sr them', and i think that is at least in part fueling the current ari thing

5. I think that tw/rc are not tvt - i refuse to believe that this is scum theater and that either of them would purposefully do this to the thread (more accurately scum!rc i can see doing with a partner, i dont think tw would). And if they're tvt ... there's like nobody egging this on, it's just been the two of them fueling this for forever. I think they are both commited/tunneled and dont particularly care of the outcome of this so long as they get the lynch they want

6. At this point i'm prioritizing unfucking the gamestate over a scumflip because ... i just cant do my job in this gamestate. I can handle a lot and keep up with a lot, but i've reached my limit and regardless of either of their alignments i just cant scumhunt effectively like thus, i cant even keep up really. I tried to play mediator, i tried to divert the gamestate into a more positive direction, but i just cant do it anymore, and my nightmare scenario at this point is day2 looking exactly like today

7. Like 50 pages ago, flipping ari would have been the best way to do that, but given how the tw/rc thing has developed i dont think that ari is the best way to go about this anymore

8. Since rc is willing to be bop'd on tw today i think of the two it's smarter to go that way. Also tbh considering lynching him is just more energy than i think i have rn. Also i think there's a p good chance town!rc gets resolved via nk despite this, and i dont think town!tw does, so if i have to pick one i'd rather the person who is unlikely to be resolved in other ways. I didnt really want either but i feel like they've forced this into 'me or him' and this is my best solution to the situation

9. If tw flips town and rc is alive tomorrow i think i am just going to vote him because this is ridiculous and i'm starting to hate how he is holding the game hostage. If tw is scum and rc is alive tomorrow i guess he gets another lynch but i really hope he's less ~this~ about it because i kinda hate how he's running this game rn. And if he just dies we can all just move past this so ngl there is a part of me secretly hoping for this outcome

I hope that explains where i'm at
I'm aware that most of my considerations here are not directly trying to get a scumflip, i'm more trying to get the game back on track in a way that will enable me and i hope everyine else to actually play the game

Idk i hope that answers your question, that's the best answer i know how to give rn

[skitter30]

Please RC stop.

Are you familiar with the book Ender's Game?

you realize that the book presented the 'win at all costs' mentality as being unhealthy and dangerous, right?

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also tw i hope everything is going ok in ur life rn

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i think plum had the worst vote yesterday and i want to start there for now
VOTE: plum

rc i have ... very strong feelings on how yesterday went down

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I had a negative result and don't think there is any gain from sharing it.
Think that there's a reasonably high probability that scum simply elected not to kill to make sure I couldn't get a guilty before I was lynched today.
(and before someone says that would add credence to my claim, no not really because someone who scumreads me is going to point that out and say it's scum me trying to spew town)

.....

[skitter30]

ari's posts on this page are all awful

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last page, whatever

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I was 100% serious, it's what I would do as scum because I think it would be reasonable to assume I have at worst 1/6 odds of hitting scum and if I hit scum and get them lynched and then scum get forced to kill me, the damage done is staggering in terms of both a lost mislynch on me as well as a lost scum member and being forced to nightkill me anyway.

I don't think evens matters a whole lot, I have no killed in situations like this more than a few times as scum, I think it's the safe play from scum PoV since if they already know I'm the investigative they don't have to fear being ferreted out by a cop or whatever if they skip nights.

no, it's a really really really stupid way to play scum

[skitter30]

ari's posts on this page are all awful

Why do you say that? I thought they were okay.

tone's p bad

[skitter30]

I do not think that reading people off of the TW votes is a good idea unless you think that scum were trying to keep Aristophanes alive.
Also someone mentioned this so I'll bring it up: the reason I targeted Teacher was that I thought that he was likely to make the kill if he was scum whereas most other targets were crapshoots.

um there is almost for sure scum on that wagon irregardless of your alignment

if you're scum, well, it's you
if you're town scum took advantage of that shitshow to get a mislynch. i would be shocked if there weren't scum on that wagon in this scenario
i think that looking at the wagon is a great place to look for scum rn

[skitter30]

Obv*

And so what he ended the day early? He also like, delayed that hammer to let the thread continue for a while which I don't think had any protown use to it.

I think you're reading way more into his motivations, Bella.
And I think you scumreading me is tainting your view on him.

also this is p bad ^

[skitter30]

i'm not sure how to read the defeatism

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it's wholly uncharacteristic of you, as either alignment @rc

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i'm a little nervous that he's doing that to get people to back off him today given yesterday

also @rc if your'e town and scum are that scared of your guilty they just .... nk you ?

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also isn't a detective roughly the same strength as tracker or am i mixing it up with psychologist?

isn't the one where you get a positive result if someone performed an nk ...

so a detective inno n1 doesn't mean that much really

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yeah i have no idea what to do with the defeatism

also i don't think that tracker/detective innos really work like that but whatever

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eh fair enough wrt ur logic

i dont' hold much value in a n1 detective inno tho

(i don't think value is the right word but i'm blanking on what word should go there)

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i think i'm the nk most times last night

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i have a tendency to n1 a lot, apparently

not bella, i could still see tris

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i kinda prefer to start with plum over ari tbh

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i'm ~strongly~ considering it but i'm not sure i want to derail the gamestate again just yet

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also now i'm worried about pocketing again

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the tris thing is more from plum than ari to clarify

i'm not really into full-team-solving at this stage, there isn't any confirmed datapoints and then we get a repeat of yesterday

[skitter30]

i'm ~strongly~ considering it but i'm not sure i want to derail the gamestate again just yet

How would pushing Plum derail the gamestate?

no, rc
i scumread him but idk if i want to start a ~thing~ rn

[skitter30]

also i'm voting plum ...

pedit yeah and the defeatism is also really confusing me

[skitter30]

rc as it is rn i don't think u can live till lylo

[skitter30]

did nsg read at all overnight?

also jjh told me that he was planning on reading soonish

[skitter30]

rc as it is rn i don't think u can live till lylo

Hey skitter what if I said I think scum tried to kill me so RC would be mislynched?

i think that if he's town he's a p viable mislynch given ~yesterday~

but i also think that he needs to be resolved before lylo given ~yesterday~

i'm not sold that it has to be via lynch but he cannot be alive in lylo uncleared given how the tw lynch went down

[skitter30]

like i said

nsg has not posted in discord in several days
gif hasn't posted in over a week

oh sorry :/

[skitter30]

right that's why i'm not starting the day off by shouting 'RC' and going after him like a bull after a red flag

i think we can utilize this time to sort other slots

but at the same time i want to make it very clear that if he is not dead/cleared th day before lylo he needs to be goned

also why ari over plum

also what do u think about teacher?

[skitter30]

Obv*

And so what he ended the day early? He also like, delayed that hammer to let the thread continue for a while which I don't think had any protown use to it.

I think you're reading way more into his motivations, Bella.
And I think you scumreading me is tainting your view on him.

also this is p bad ^

this was the worst part of ari's entrance today imo ^

[skitter30]

i don't think we should be sorting rc by proxy anymore
if he's scummy we should just vote him

lynching ari to figure out rc's wagonomics feels very ~convoluted~ and we tried to do that yesterday even and now people aren't really taking into account the outcome of the experiement, so i'm a little dubious that using ari as a second proxy will be effective

plum's tw vote was scary and while there's (a few) things that i like about ari i can remember just ... like two (?) posts from plum that i liked and on balance i feel worse about her than ari

[skitter30]

no the tw lynch, rc wanted to be bop'd on it and a lot of people voted there because 'tw and rc can't be tvt'

[skitter30]

oh hey my ~'s are catching on

i said i don't want to push rc rn
and that he needs to be gone by lylo

but using ari to sort rc feels silly to me given yesterday

[skitter30]

i think ari is independantly scummy but using him to sort rc is silly

i feel worse about plum so would rather there
if there isn't as much support for that i can switch to ari but i'd rather pressure plum rn

[skitter30]

because i think her vote on tw was awful and i don't think she's done anything townie really at all and i think she's the best bet for scum on the wagon barring rc

also i'm not sure ari defends tw that strongly if he could just be like 'i sr tw vote: tw' upon catching up if he's scum

we can pressure ari too
but like i can think of reasons to tr ari
but i don't really have reasons to tr plum

also, again, i'm very wary of the whole team-reading/solve thing with no scum flips at this point

[skitter30]

that's, um, slightly creepy

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UNVOTE:

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well not the milday bit the sheeping bit

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i think it's awful in the context of a tw townflip irregardless of ari

pedit @math

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i don't know how i feel about voting plum rn

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yes

and i'm wondering if feeling/reacting that way means that i ought to just be voting u

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i'm feeling very conflicted

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i feel like if you're scum u kinda need to try to stay on my good side here so that, well, i don't start death-tunneling you

and i'm a little worried that you're doing just that so like

[skitter30]

I would vote Plum but I don't want to poison the well because I feel like if I support the wagon it's less likely to go through tbh.

VOTE: Plum

I shall follow you milady to whatever bitter end.

[skitter30]

And... I was willing to vote there yesterday. Should I like, not vote my scumreads that align with you so that you don't think I'm trying to get on your good side?

idk like i said the vote kinda creeped me out
esp. since u weren't intereted in it a few minutes before but once i said i wanted to vote plum over ari u did

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yes and my point is that i'm questioning the timing of that

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tbf he did actually get into a fight with me about that

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more that i was commiting to that then than anything else
i also think i may be reading too much into this particular interaction and that i have a tendency to get paranoid about this sort of thing

VOTE: plum

i've been sleeping poorly so i'm going to bounce and try to sleep but i'll be around tom at some point

pedit is that at me?

[skitter30]

do tell

[skitter30]

i sr plum more and would rather see her react to some pressure than push ari rn

i didn't sr ari for most of the mess yesterday, most of what i disliked from him came *after* he popped back in on sunday.
so i objected to that push because i didn't think he was scum at the time
i p much gave up protesting that after like round 500 of the rc / ari thing because i couldn't do it anymore, it was too draining

and i object to the characterization of my play as 'riling up rc' when i deliberately played to do my best to not do that
idk what you mean by 'sidestepping plum + tris + skitter' day1, i do believe i've made my opinions on both of them very clear

i don't object to ari i just want to pressure other people and i'm kinda confused why you're complaining to my wanting to start the day voting someone who was a non-entity for large parts of the day and who i don't think we've heard from enough.

like we have time
we can do ari today
rn i want to do other things

also me/ari/rc is ridiculous

[skitter30]

Actually kinda like the reasoning for plum's unvote
UNVOTE:

Dont particularly like tw's entrance tho.

Like here for example.
You voted Plum were confused then unvoted with no explanation to how you were no longer confused.

Something is weird there.

I almost feel like if you’re scum you’re using Plum as a de facto I can vote them.

If you really believed Plum was scum more than Ari RC’s vote shouldn’t have changed your mind.

And if you believe Ari is more likely scum than Plum now why no vote?

the unvote had more to do with rc than anything else
i get skittish sometimes, esp when i'm nervous about people sheeping me

idk what you mean wrt 'confused ... were no longer confused'

i dont' believe i said today that i think ari is more likely scum than plum
and i don't like getting pressured into things, if i want to vote ari i'll vote ari but i dont' like how you keep trying to get me to vote ari and off of plum and it's making me not want to

[skitter30]

We should 100% vote who RC did not want us to vote yesterday and the fact a majority of town scumreads Ari is a bonus.

Ari should eat rope. Then if Ari is scum RC. Then maaaybe Skitter or Plum.

I needs me some nukes

you realize rc almost got ari lynched yesterday, right?

[skitter30]

like if rc is bussing ari then why does he hard back off there

it's a bit of a bizarre svs play

[skitter30]

honestly i really need to go to sleep and i don't think i can process figuring it out if voting you is a good idea when you post things like that and i'm this tired

so i'm gonna bounce

pedit ari got up to l-1 and if i recall correctly there was at least one intent (mabye not explicit intent but iirc most people were ok with his lynch just then)
and then rc like hard-reversed and the thing dropped

and i think that between {ari/rc} ari flips usually before rc so he wouldn't tie himself that atrociously to a bizarre ari flip that could be revisited because he'd riled up so much fervor for it and then not carried it through

[skitter30]

*bizarre ari push

like it's such a silly way to tie himself to someone who is probably going to flip before him that it seems just plain weird to not commit to the bus if rc was going to go that route
i'm not really sure i buy the svs {ari/rc} theory

[skitter30]

yeah idk what to say to that

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Like I am pretty sure you’re trying to rile me up to lynch you so we don’t lynch Ari but maaan.

this doesn't even make sense ....
it's too convoluted to make sense ...

[skitter30]

Hey busy day at work and weekend plans changed to (possibly?) traveling tonight. Probably wont be on until much later tonight

[skitter30]

i'm around for a bit, catching up now

[skitter30]

Like I am pretty sure you’re trying to rile me up to lynch you so we don’t lynch Ari but maaan.

this doesn't even make sense ....
it's too convoluted to make sense ...

math, can you explain what exactly scum!rc was thinking yesterday when he nearly brought scum!ari to a lynch and then suddenly backed off,
and then why he'd today be trying to rile you up to lynch him over ari when we all know that rc is a better scum player who is acutely aware of bussing and is more likely to endgame in vaccuum ... ?

[skitter30]

i kinda just hate like everything he's saying but scum!him doesn't make sense with scum!rc here imo @math

[skitter30]

Does this still stand, skitter? You think RC is confscum now or?

i think so, ya
i don't think he's scum with ari tho
and i think voting ari to sort rc is ridiculous

but before we like ~do that~ i wanna sort other people because he's being kinda quiescent rn
he needs to be resolved by tomorrow's lynch at the latest tho

=

What prompted this sudden change of your game-long scumread on me?

positioning wrt tw, i think it's easier to pop in when u did and push him for a lynch than defend him

[skitter30]

math i don't understand why you're pushing ari rn

[skitter30]

I would love to be able to leave him until tomorrow but he is consistently fucking with Skitter and other people to start a wagon that is completely antitown.

- disagree that plum is anti-town, not sure why you're portraying it that way
- the way he's behaving around me is really freaking weird, ya

[skitter30]

i don't think ur thing with tw was tvt
and i don't think that you can be in lylo at this point

the defeatism / repeated references to wanting to be lynched is ... very uncharismatic and making me paranoid and i think are lowkey townie and i find them confusing
like i think you're like fl in that you care about your scumgame more than your towngame and you being this defeated as scum is just like ????? and hard to process

i don't think i'm making incorrect reads based on associatives with you tho? the only team-read i'm sold on rn is that you/ari are not svs so i'm kinda confused what you're even referring too

[skitter30]

see like that isn't helpful and i don't know what to do with that

[skitter30]

There's no point in lynching RC today, Math. I'd want to. But there's no point.

Either he's town PR, and he dies tonight. Or he's scum, and we lynch him tomorrow.

Do you think it's better to get rid of him today?

So I'm probably not catching up fully tonight. Walking 3 miles to and from work is exhausting me.

But I do want to nip this in the bud.

This is what sets the foundation for a future narrative. Which is a world where RC doesn't die until end game because "scum are leaving him as a mislynch.".

RC never eats a nightkill this game because even as a claimed investigative his result is not credible. So it's on town to deal with. He is no longer self resolving.

town ^
and i don't have a problem with this

[skitter30]

No because if my lynch happens it'll be effectively unreadable because there's no way to sort bad town from scum on it.

like i think you're like fl in that you care about your scumgame more than your towngame

this is the exact opposite of true

I would never have posted as much if I were scum I would never have cared this much on D1 if I were scum

My attitude here is that I think that TW's teams play towards me should be punished to deter it from happening in the future and I doubt that I will survive the day unless it's what scum want as a result of it so trying to force myself to stay alive is anti-town.

this isn't how i percieve your scumgame like at all

[skitter30]

Skitter I want to move on and if the game is going to scumread me forever the game has to move on; why do you call me confscum then act like me trying to resolve the issue is an unhelpful thing

because i'm aware that you can't stick around long and that we have to move past this

but i think that there are better ways to use the day than all of us just speedlynching u rn

like plum hasn't even posted yet
or tris
and xtoxm
and flopz

or maybe they did in the pages i haven't read yet but i'm not caught up and like just lynching u rn before we make people talk and contribute things in a ~calm and sane manner~ seems silly

[skitter30]

I can’t sleep and was thinking about RC’s claim.

@RC If we have a vig why isn’t anyone dead? You claimed detective and based off this theorized a vig.

Any ideas why Ari or you aren’t dead?

sorry where did all the vig stuff come from ?

[skitter30]

be back in a sec

[skitter30]

My theory is Ari is a PR and RC isn’t. So Ari is more valuable than RC. Assuming Ari+RC but it could be Ari alone and RC is just stubborn

no i still don't think the day plays out like that in this universe either

[skitter30]

I can’t sleep and was thinking about RC’s claim.

@RC If we have a vig why isn’t anyone dead? You claimed detective and based off this theorized a vig.

Any ideas why Ari or you aren’t dead?

tbf i think that this is an unfair line of questioning

[skitter30]

My theory is Ari is a PR and RC isn’t. So Ari is more valuable than RC. Assuming Ari+RC but it could be Ari alone and RC is just stubborn

no i still don't think the day plays out like that in this universe either

Why not?

because that's not my understanding of how rc plays scum or how busses or how he values dayplay

[skitter30]

@skit - what’s your take on me?

slightly below null

[skitter30]

ari was the only person to oppose the duck lynch in a significant way
he was also the proposed alternative lynch which is really low value for scum
+town equity

i'm confused

i'm assumign your'e talking about eod - why are you reading proposed alternative lynch as being +town and not as it being a potential cw that got thwarted

[skitter30]

I can’t sleep and was thinking about RC’s claim.

@RC If we have a vig why isn’t anyone dead? You claimed detective and based off this theorized a vig.

Any ideas why Ari or you aren’t dead?

tbf i think that this is an unfair line of questioning

Why? It’s something that at least has some bearing on the plausibility of the claim, and RC is a world builder who thinks through these things (as shown by the original vig hypothesis), so why not get the benefit of his thoughts on the world we are in?

back again sorry

math's acting like the fact that there is no evidence of a vig is inherently damning for rc and indicative that rc is scum / scummy for bringign it up in the first place
but if he is actually a detective thinking there might be a vig is a reasonable position to take even if there isn't one

[skitter30]

Serious question Skitter actually

Why is this different from Seaside?

I took basically the exact same tac as scum there

which one was seaside
not sure i remember it that well

[skitter30]

for a few minutes, yeah

[skitter30]

tbh a lot of games have been blurring in my head recently
adn most of my recent animus comes from the cop/doc one that teacher modded

and i try not to remember that one for several reasons
and i don't remember you being resigned to a lynch, i remember you picking a fight with math; baiting cop checks; and fucking around with associatives and messing with my head to get me to lynch the exact wrong person

it's mroe the last thing that's stuck with me because i know you can get in my head sometimes and that's why i'm nervous about the buddyign you've been doing today

[skitter30]

Atp I genuinely think not lynching me is pro-scum. Everything I know about you says you'd want me dead ASAP. I don't get it. Talk me through it.

your'e being rational rn and i'm kinda scared that if go full force the thread will get derailed and i want to take advantage of the decent-ish gamestate to focus on the quieter people before it implodes again

like it's going to happen, yes. i dont' want to do it ~at this moment~

and i feel like you're trying to provoke me the push which is weird and i don't entirely like it
and i feel like you're also like buddying and/or talking for me liek we're part of a collective town bloc that we've mutually agreed on
and i don't know what to do with those things

[skitter30]

for a few minutes, yeah

kk nvm.

I was wondering kinda if you had anything specific you wanted to talk out with me/have me look into/have me address because I feel like you are the best person jnt he game to be both active enough and impartial enough to ebgage with properly in order for us both to gain solid, proper reads on multiple slots.

I'd love to do a real-time jam with you.

[skitter30]

whoops, i meant to respond to that but hit submit by mistake:

- it's been a busier few days than i expected and i've had less time than i would have liked
- i should be around mroe saturday night, but probably won't be around much at all between now and then
- i feel like a lot of your posting this phase has been kinda fence-sitty and like you're popping in to proclaim that you haven't really read and/or your reads haven't changed
- i don't feel like i have a great grasp for your reads rn besides for like you thinking you're not scum with rc; can you kinda summarize where you're at and who's your ideal lynch rn
- why are you voting plum?

[skitter30]

Ok so basically you're saying I have to shit up the game to get town to play optimally

if that's at me no that's not what i said at all and i have no idea how you came to that conclusion

[skitter30]

i said i dont' want to do this ~rn~
and that i want to work on other people first

i dont' get why you're provoking lynches on u rn when there are other/better ways to spend this time rn

[skitter30]

rc if i were scum here i'd have come in guns blazing trying to get your mislynch after the shitshow of how yesterday went down
and it would have been relatively easy i think

i'm actually trying to use this time to do something useful while the game ~isn't~ a mess
but i feel like you're trying to provoke it into imploding anyways

[skitter30]

both amrun and jjh are telling me to vote you rn

[skitter30]

I mean.
You're literally lining up my mislynch anyway
Why does it matter when it happens really

You lining up reads behind my scumflip is completely unokay and I should (and you should agree with me) be calling you out for it and telling you that you're making a mistake and should vote me before you make up your mind.

rc there's like 9 other slots that aren't you or me and half of them got to lurk through yesterday
i want to force them to have content before day 3

you know how i feel about fucking up gamestates and i think doing things in this order is the best way to keep the game tolerable for as long as is needed in order to get reads on those slots

i don't think i'm lining up reads on your scumflip ...
like where is that even happening

[skitter30]

What are the odds that Skitter/Aristophanes is a thing?

oh do tell

[skitter30]

This is exhausting, what the hell

Ari i am thoroughly underwhelmed

Was there anything particularly addreased to me in the last like 6 pages, because i didnt really read them

I almost want to lynch in {tw/rc} now just to resolve this mess and move on

>Ari I am thoroughly underwhelmed
>I want to lunch in TW/RC though

yes, because ari popped in and basically contributed nothing after holding the gamestate up for like 5 days
and at that point you two had had a 60 page 1v1 that needed to be dealt with

[skitter30]

Skitter you literally told Math that you weren't considering Ari because I was confscum and Ari wasn't my buddy then in your NEXT POST you talked about how my defeatism pointed to me being town.

no, i said that i don't think that sorting ari is a good way to sort you any more
but the defeatism doesn't match my understandign of how you play scum

[skitter30]

Skitter if your team was telling you to vote me

Why aren't you doing it

You are the LAST PERSON on MS who gives me a break

So what's your read on Ari now

they're telling me that you're being ridiculous and that the defeatism isn't like you at all and that you aren't making sense rn

but i'm nervous that you're trying to rile me up
i don't want to make the game like yesterday

townie
i think he positioned himself awfully yesterday as scum
i feel like there's way too many people happy to lynch him and pushing his lynch
i feel like he doesn't make much sense as scum with anyone

and that he's saying a lot of stuff that looks and feels kinda bad but i was thinking about it and realized that like ... he always sounds like that so i'm not sure if most of this is actually, like ai for him

[skitter30]

Skitter you literally told Math that you weren't considering Ari because I was confscum and Ari wasn't my buddy then in your NEXT POST you talked about how my defeatism pointed to me being town.

no, i said that i don't think that sorting ari is a good way to sort you any more
but the defeatism doesn't match my understandign of how you play scum

It doesn’t match town either it’s just confusing.

I like this RC better tone wise minus the defeatism.

I don’t feel angry each time I check the thread.

that's what i'm saying
i feel like if i go after him rn it will turn the thread back into that
and i feel like we can actually get stuff done when it isn't like that

everyone agrees he cannot be in lylo
so i don't feel like it needs to be taken care of ~right this instant~
and i don't like that he's trying to hasten that process and it makes me feel like he's trying to screw with the gamestate again by provoking a fight with me rn

[skitter30]

rc you're doing that rn

[skitter30]

i mean ...

[skitter30]

rc there's literally like a third of the game not playing rn

[skitter30]

I kind of struggle to believe that if you think I'm scum I'm cornered and that I don't have some way out of it if you don't actually engage the process of lynching me.

I have no struggle believing you as scum see that I've given up and find it valuable to not be the one to hard drive it

I'm struggling a lot here

do you not understand the words ~right now~ ?
or the notion that the game does not, in fact, revolve around you and that there is value in not ending the day before i have reads on the billion people lurking rn

you're somehow coming to the conclusion that 'wanting to sort other people first' means 'i'm trying to avoid your lynch' which is not at all what i've been saying and i feel is a gross mischaracterization of my position

[skitter30]

rc there's literally like a third of the game not playing rn

Ok

And you can't force them to play

Because they know that in the end everyone is gonna turn around and lynch me

i mean there's like two slots that haven't even posted yet today
and who's content yesterday was .... lacking at best

and i want them to like ~exist~ before day3
and yeah you're derailing this again by makign this about you so it might have that effect

[skitter30]

you're somehow coming to the conclusion that 'wanting to sort other people first' means 'i'm trying to avoid your lynch' which is not at all what i've been saying and i feel is a gross mischaracterization of my position

If you're town vote me in your next post and I won't do anything to prevent my lynch

If you don't do that I am going to do everything in my power to keep my slot alive

yeah and i just want to tell you something rather rude when you make demands out of this
which i actually wrote out and then thought better of and then erased

VOTE: radientcowbells

now let me do my sorting in peace, happy ?

i don't want you lynched before all of plum, tris, xtoxm, flopz do stuff

[skitter30]

Skitter what does A50 think of the game? Reads?

he's literally read up to like page 7 and i paraphrased like everything until that point the night that he did

[skitter30]

he's in discord

idk about the last time he was on site

[skitter30]

*or more accurately signed in on site
he ws literally reading along

[skitter30]

he was reading along
he says tell you to check his offsite posting now

idk what that means

[skitter30]

* onsite posting it got edited too, which makes more sense

[skitter30]

um what's the vc

[skitter30]

he says to tell you that he doesn't use invisibility mode at all

and that he posted 10 minutes ago

and then went to eat fajitas while watching netflix

[skitter30]

i don't really like this conversation, i feel like it's skirting kinda close to a few site rules

[skitter30]

i can see tris and/or bella

also i may have mentioned this a few times, but i don't really believe in full-team-solving at this stage rn

[skitter30]

scummy

he had a burst of ate like around when he repped in that seemed townie at the time but i looked at it again recently and i didn't really see it anymore
other than he's just had a series of bad takes

[skitter30]

hey i'm around, catching up

[skitter30]

heya fire

[skitter30]

I'm pushing there. I'll case it or whatever when I get the chance. Also burn openwolf Ari.

sorry, you think that both ari + rc are scum ???
i don't think that universe makes much sense at all

rc i dont' see what you see in the flopz posts you quoted on p 146

[skitter30]

i can't function when i don't feel like i have a stable foundation in the game because fear of being mislynched starts to outweigh everything and i can't relax and i can't sort if i can't relax.
that's why when i get in 1v1s like duckling i just all in and end them.

rc do i have just like a very warped perception of how you play and the difference between yoru scumgame and towngame?

because i think that:

-> you care significantly more about your scumgame than towngame
-> you care more about dominating the game as scum than getting mislynched
-> you turn ~on~ in order to control the gamestate as scum and to shut down things that aren't conducive to you

and i guess the only time i can kinda think of town!you getting into a thing like this was i guess teacher's cop/doc game with me
whereas i kinda associate this sort of gamestate with scum!you

actually as i write this out i'm recalling taz mafia, and that you were town there
and i'm not sure i have that many examples with scum!you to begin with
and the only scumgame that i can think of in comparison is last time's tm but i admittedly was not in that one

[skitter30]

man.

i really don't know why i was townreading skitter ever.

i feel like that was not a thing that i should have been doing.

i feel like her response to my play here has been disgustingly scummy.

do tell

[skitter30]

ya i'm starting to wonder if my understanding of your meta is just ... very wrong

[skitter30]

she called Ari scummy a whole bunch when he made some mediocre posts at the start of the day
then she started to go after Plum for reasons that she was relatively vague on
then when Math is repeatedly prompting her to go after Ari, her excuse is that he's not TvS with me and i'm confscum
then calls me lowkey townie in her next post for doing something that aligns exactly with a maneuver i previously made as scum

ari's posts are p bad
despite that, i dont' think he takes most of the stances he's taking if he's scum tho, he's positioning himself p horribly
i think i've made my posistion on plum p clear so do tell
and that's not my stance on you/ari, but ok
and you've made some posts that i think more likely than not comes from town!you
(although apparently my understanding of your meta is quite wrong so meh)

[skitter30]

iconeum do you agree with my assessment that skitter, like, really didn't seem like she was actually interested in voting me today

rc i didn't want to fuck up the gamestate

and you were seeming kinda sad adn despondant
and i feel a little bad going ~all in~ on people who seem upset for other reasons

[skitter30]

i've felt the entire game that skitter was kinda like... handling me with kid gloves if that makes sense? and i thought she was just trying to be nice but i'm no longer feeling that way.

i mean ....

[skitter30]

Like current V/LA list just grew.

Plum is replacing, Ico for the weekend, xtoxm, teacher for the weekend plus.

Tris is MIA, Bella is lowest content, RCE isn't around much, and Flopz says a few scummy lines then disappears every once in a while.

This leaves RC, Skitter, Math, and Myself as active posters and as actively talked about. This isn't a game where anyone else can be read and if one of the latter 4 gets lynched and another NK'd the game will end in a scum sweep for mere inactivity.

My reads are stagnant because the only people giving enough content to read are already solid reads and are the minority in the thread.

ari are you around? iirc you wanted to talk?

i think the bolded is kinda townie actually

[skitter30]

VOTE: ari

Trying to portray yourself as active in this game - and more so than me - is kindly just all the way off. “Active poster” ari my ass.

teacher i do not tr btw

i don't feel like i have a good sense for where your reads/head is, but rather that you're popping in once in a while, and nitpicking random things and choosing to vote them

like what you're reacting to feels kinda wrong, if that makes sense
also is this a sr of ari (ie that you thought that htis post was scummy?) or are you just annoyed at him that he called himself more active than you

(which tbf over at least day2 has been kinda accurate)

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

VOTE: ari

Trying to portray yourself as active in this game - and more so than me - is kindly just all the way off. “Active poster” ari my ass.

Okay but I am?

I was inactive for the first part of the game but since my work schedule cooled off I have been here actively. I have more posts than yourself in a far shorter timespan, and I would be more active if there were people other than Math and RC to interact with on a regular basis.

Also I was talking about the weekend specifically here and you are on a V/la so really you took my post and spun it in an ilunintended direction for whatever reason.

Your vote sucks and you should feel bad about it.
Case me if you think I'm scum

Hi Ari.

Engage me. It's hard to post a lot of content when a lot of the thread is RC. I'm not dealing with RC today. .

Why are you scum reading teacher? It feels like you are being deliberately obtuse about him - how do you explain the hand waving you did over his RC vote? BC it feels like the handwaving you did over "Bella does this as scum...I meant she doesn't, but she could!'

Hi Ari.

Engage me. It's hard to post a lot of content when a lot of the thread is RC. I'm not dealing with RC today. .

Why are you scum reading teacher? It feels like you are being deliberately obtuse about him - how do you explain the hand waving you did over his RC vote? BC it feels like the handwaving you did over "Bella does this as scum...I meant she doesn't, but she could!'

Hey Bella!

Do you mean his vote on TW? Because he never voted RC that I can tell.

My comment about your potential scum ability was just that. With my understanding of your abilities as it is, I presumed it to be something I could see coming from Scum!Bella. It wasn't a major point and it hasn't done much for my sorting of you. It was merely a commemtary so I could keep it in mind as the game progressed and if anyone else had a similar insight it might spark somethig unnoticed by them previously.

As for Teacher he's probably a secondary scumread atm. I should probably reread his postng but just like his surface understanding of that last post, leading to a vote on me for something I didn't actually say, he has shown a very surface level inclination for most of the game leading me t ok think he is more likely to already have the answers, as scum do.

also is scum!ari even capable of giving cogent, detailed responses to people scumreading him like this ?
in not-quite realtime, but fairly quickly?

[skitter30]

I don't agree with that read actually.

I'm starting to think RCE actually makes more sense as the deepwolf than Skitter.

I actually can't see why people are townreading him?

he has firm, unwavering opinions that stand up against people disagreeing with him/protesting his stances
he's made several townie posts/thoughts/observations at times that were p much exactly what i was thinking
like he isn't posting a lot but all of it is ~good~

i track his thought process, and what he's doing, and how it follows from what he was thinking before

and the fact that you're starting to question townreads on him right after he reaffirms his sr of you / intent to vote you is just ... not good

[skitter30]

i'm working on it ... you guys post a lot

[skitter30]

Also everyone is playing the associative game with 0 scumflips. Which is cool if that's what you do but has no bearing for me if all we're flipping is town.

again just reiterating that the way that like half of you is approaching the game is just plain ridiculous ^^^

[skitter30]

The read in there that probably confuses the most people is Plum, but like I think that her iso is a lot harder to fake than it looks to an untrained eye
So... even if we lynch me we can obliterate the entire pool of people that I think contains all the scum

you realize you went from strongly considering her scum to townreading her without her posting in between, right?

[skitter30]

There’s no way town Ari writes this.

Two Neutral Killers and a scum team? And no deaths overnight?

Hahahaha

BBmolla’s response is paraphrased as How is Ari still breathing?

I am literally puppeting my team’s reads.

math i think your'e tunneled on ari
i don't think he flips scum here

[skitter30]

If he's not town loses literally 100% of the time

This is empty hyperbole.

Town loses if we don’t lynch scum on day two with a save already.

This is empty rhetoric RC. You know better.

no it's a pretty bang on assessment

[skitter30]

At least she's one of the 3 people who isn't v/la this weekend! Might give you a chance to hash things out

well, i'm vla every weekend, but you know

[skitter30]

Aristophanes (4): Iconeum, MathBlade, Flopz, teacher
RadiantCowbells (2): skitter30, RCEnigma
RCEnigma (1): RadiantCowbells

Not voting (5): tris, Plum, Bellaphant, Xtoxm, Aristophanes

like this vc is just kinda gross
i don't trust the latter half of the ari wagon
rc your vote on rce is awful
and the entire lurker pool + ari is not voting

[skitter30]

Already in bed so I'm going to make this brief and follow it up tomorrow. Our team had 1 and only 1 scum role PM which has now flipped. Given NSGs IRL circumstances she has had barely any time to play TM at all. Nothing I said about her inactivity was untrue or exaggerated in the slightest. I also want to make it clear that there is a reason that NSG read and meaningfully gave reads in this game before she did anything else in TM. We legitimately assumed this slot was going to be locktown nk bait from day 1 due to claim and more general reasons so we wanted to get this game on the right track early. TW deathtunneling us made that impossible and while she tried for part of it she at some point just got tired of the toxicity and didn't want to read even when she was around. We're still town in this game and both or is are capable of really great things read wise but none of that matters unless people can trust us.

This town can't afford to mislynch us or to ignore us.

i have a lot of thoughts on how u lot played this collectively but it's probably the sort of thing that would be better for postgame so whatever, i guess

[skitter30]

Cant wait to read all this 156 pages of quality content when i replace in

saudade !!!!
hi !!!!

[skitter30]

is that a serious claim?

no, it's not, to clarify
no matter what he says

[skitter30]

ok i'm caught up

i'm p confident i can read saudade so i'm happy he repped in
also he's cool and i like playing with him

i still want to vote the plum slot but i can give shos some time to read ad stuff before we get in there

i don't know if i still scumread rc

i want to push teacher tho

VOTE: teacher

[skitter30]

sure

[skitter30]

ok
see what you can do
because your thing yesterday was ... not good for the entire game
and i think that if you are in fact town here, me deathtunneling you and trying to get you lynched rn will put town in a p awful position that i'm not sure we'll be able to recover from
(which, you know, i'm trying to avoid
which, you know, you're apparently scumreading me for)

so if you can like articulate it in a way that i can see it i think that would probably be the best outcome for everyone

[skitter30]

i'm writing something up, i'll start by saying that i don't think that you're scum and i didn't think that for more than like an hour when i was getting stressed out

(sorry had to talk to my aunt for a few min, back again)

i mean on thursday you were pushing me for essentially not wanting to screw over teh gamestate
even though you know that i try to mitigate that sort of thing and prioritize keeping the game pleasant and easy to play over like deathtunneling people

also pointing out, again, that your rce scumread nearly exactly coincided with him pushing you

[skitter30]

ok

wrt to 3972
a lot of what you said there resonated with me - esp the bit about turning like ~on~ when you're scumread and not being able to like drop it or get over it and that it messes with how you approach with the thread - i kinda do that too, when i feel like i'm being scumread for ridiculous reasons i just like become significantly more aggressive and like push-y in an attempt to get people to drop it (but not toxic), and i sometimes get scumread for this (ank in particular would until she realized thta's just kinda how i work) and it would be really really really frustrating because i was trying to get people to understand taht they were wrong but it just kinda snowballed and i ended up worse than i was to begin with

and i think taht your'e sometimes just like not fully capable of controlling this sort of thing of town
like if you're town you literally just did the same thing with rce here
and yeah there's a bit of a pattern here (me in the newbie, me in the teacher doc/cop game, xreck in taz mafia)

so i actually kinda like that post, a lot
and your reads do match with mine quite a bit

but i guess one thing that i'm kinda stuck on is that like in vaccuum if you're town at the start of teh game you're self-resolving given like, you're you
but if you're town here i'm not sure that you are
and that's a little scary for me but i'm not sure that pushing you for a lynch is the best way to resolve you rn
but if i'm being honest with myself there is a *very* large chance i get eaten up with paranoia if you're around in lylo if we're both there, no matter how i read you the day before, no matter what my thoughts were the day before
like i just kinda know myself that this is where my mind is going to go even if i don't want it to

so i don't entirely know what to do

[skitter30]

the plum transition was basically thinking she wasn't TvS with you. I went back on that as soon as i felt like you were town again
basically i won't say i'm confident on RCE but i'm confident on you and i am willing to trust your ability to read him because i realize that i just am too frustrated to be objective

other than that our reads really aren't that different (and outside of D1 equiv TW ig), except the order that we'd lynch our scumreads ig and the fact that i'm not, like, sure Ari is town?
like he's either town or scum but i think that we solve that by lynching around him more easily than lynching him because

if he's scum it's pretty frigging clear that remaining scum is in 3, maybe 4 people whereas if he's town that says nothing about Tris or Plum's weird treatment of him and the people pushing him could be scum

i still want plum (pending shos catching up tho)
i do not think rce is scum

and i don't really think that ari is scum either

and i guess i'm just kinda tired pushing people for gamestate/information reasons when we could just be like ... pushing the scummy people themselves

[skitter30]

well at least math and saudade aren't scum together, that's nice to know

[skitter30]

Skit I’m traveling and vLa but reading up. Happy to discuss anything. My vote was ari because I am pretty confident on my reads of math and RCE, and I’m slight town on RC though my team (ofrhz) wants that lynch.

I’d like to see things out o shos/saudade now that those slots have replaced, or xtomx since they’ve taken the game basically off. I’m disappointed that in 160 pages I don’t really have more/strong scum elands, it can’t really do anything about that. At least I feel my towns well and can work with them, even if I think there is probably a wolf in that pack too.

I feel like I’m currently the designated lylo lynch and don’t like that much, since it results in a loss, but also don’t really know how to change much since I don’t think much has changed.

ok a few things:
- how are you reading me ?
- i don't get why math/rce means you want to vote ari ??? do you have an independant read on ari?
- i'm a little scared that you don't have stronger scumreads rn
- how did you come to the conclusion that you're the designated lylo lynch ?

[skitter30]

sorry sorry i'm away for the weekend with family and i keep getting distracted a lot of people are talking at me give me a sec

[skitter30]

i do think that teacher's, like, less equity than just Plum but I figure you're more interested in sorting him than saying yeah he's definitely scum

yes

[skitter30]

i'm also scared that you're like, underestimating the odds of Ari being scum but I think everyone else recognizes those odds enough for it to not really matter enough for me to want to do something about it

from my understanding:
ari hates playing scum, has a strong tendency to lurk, and isn't really capable of giving cogent thoughts on the game or gamestate

here he's: (besdies for that period with work) actively making himself available, engaging with people, his reads are evolving, he's capable of giving real-time-ish explanations for his thoguhts and stances down to minute-ish details

which i think he'd have a hard time doing if he's scum
he's also taken some strong positions that i think a) just hard for him to fake as scum b) are bad for him to take as scum (i.e. you/tw being tvt)

[skitter30]

at the risk of being called pockety, if you work with me we just won't make it to lylo. there's a reason i've never made it to lylo as town from D1 besides Baton Pass (which, several mitigating factors)
not saying that to like brag or dick measuring contest, we just really can do this

if nsg ever shows up again and it's still in question maybe she can help show that we're town, idk.

yes i think that nsg being involved would make it easier for me to read you
i'm better at reading her than reading you
so if you can like ~prod~ her to be here that owuld be great

i'm willing to put this on the back burner today
and revisit this thought tomorrow
but i need it to be dealt with by like tomorrow night because i know myself and even if i don't want to go there i can predict what's going to happen even if that's not how i want to play it out
(i literally said a few games ago that if town!pk is in lylo i will probably vote him. we were in lylo. i voted him.)

or maybe i'll just die and this wont' be my problem anymore

[skitter30]

Saudade, is there really no game relevant commentary in you team thread?

can i have link to my team thread

are you on my team teacher

ok saudade is prob town

[skitter30]

are you on my team teacher

Yea, you should also have a link to the scum or with me and Vork.

?

[skitter30]

also keep in mind skitter that even if somehow scum manage to get away with keeping me alive when we massclaim it's *probably* going to be obvious the setup isn't balanced if I am not a TPR

this is a true point
ok we can deal with this tomorrow i think, if we're still both here

[skitter30]

Skit - anything to 3977? I feel like yours is a pressure vote and I’m being told to dance, but I don’t know the tune.

i like this post

no

[skitter30]

-on you, I believe there is a deep wolf (or two) in this game. I don’t think it’s math. I think there’s about equal chance of RC/RCE, which is why I’ve got the pending question to RCE. I think you could *possibly* be scum with RC, but are unlikely to be by yourself. In other words, I townread you, but with paranoia (less paranoia than on RC).

-math has been hard pushing Ari. RCE is pushing RC, but calling ari openwolf. That’s two of my townreads calling out a slot that has been difficult to lynch and that I don’t see putting out content.

- on stronger scumreads, I’m not the type to fake it. I feel good about my towns, but there are way too many slots just being allowed to skate by. If we get content out of shos/saudade/xtomx and Bella, I will start feeling stronger.

- because everyone’s blah on me but I’m being enough of a presbence to be discussed, but not really considered (yet)

Pedit: began this when skits post I am responding to was the most recent thing.

i think math is tunneled on ari. and rce thinks rc/ari is a thing which i think obviously doesn't make sense. like what do you thinka bout the rc/ari situation ???
and again do you have an independant read on ari or?

and that's what i'm saying wrt shos/saudade/xtoxm/bella/almost you, that if we cocnentrate on ari/rc/me/math/whatever we're never going to get content out of them, i think that pressuring the lurkers is a much more productive use of our time than deathtunneling ari or me deathtunneling rc

who do you think is most liekly scum in that group and why?

also i'm feeling blah on you so that's why i'm starting this dialogue ...

[skitter30]

That is the point yes. And I am not massclaiming, I am simply stating that it is very likely that at some point in the game my role is enough power that it is really obvious that it has to exist.

That’s not how any of this works....at all.

You can just as easily be covering with a scum buddy or TMIing.

See game where Titus bussed you for faking a guilty meta
And the person claiming info doesn’t always have to be the source.

So how about instead of talking mechanics we don’t know we get to reads?

Awesome.

math i think u misunderstood the point he was trying to make

[skitter30]

This is what everyone believes and then Ari suddenly wins in lylo against one of the strongest towns ever assembled on MS.
I'm not saying he's *super likely* scum and I think that again the solution to scum!Ari is to lynch his scumpartners because it's real obvious that a lot of people aren't SvS with him

yeah but he's not lurking his way to lylo here
like he isn't popping in ever like two days making excuses for not having reads

he's actually playing and trying to engage people

[skitter30]

Dammit, RCE is probably town. I took a step back and dialed my OMGUS back, as well as actually reading his posts, and they're actually pretty towny and I see effort in solving the game present.

Time to rethink some things. I honestly didn't expect this, and it became evident a lot earlier in his ISO than I ever would have thought.

@teacher wrt ari's reads
he had been scumreading him just before

[skitter30]

Because I leave for a day only to come back to more spam and more bs and I just gah. This is a lot and it is draining.

tell me about it
i think tonight has been significantly better than most days in this game tho tbh

[skitter30]

I think that is a really dangerously easy townread to give him jsyk

idk how much experience you have with him but I have seen him win a lot of games as scum and he replaced my second strongest scumread

is this about me on ari?
ok do you think i'm mis-assessing some part of his scumgame in particular?
like do you have a particular reason i'm wrong beyond 'scum!ari is better than people think'?
(which your ealize is how you get scumread most of the time ... ?)

[skitter30]

also keep in mind skitter that even if somehow scum manage to get away with keeping me alive when we massclaim it's *probably* going to be obvious the setup isn't balanced if I am not a TPR

this is a true point
ok we can deal with this tomorrow i think, if we're still both here

Why are you assuming today will be a mislynch?

VOTE: Skitter30

math i think you need to take a step back from the game and just like ~broadly reassess~
your reads are p bad imo

i don't think ari is scum here

[skitter30]

I feel more sure on Plum atm because even Shos's entrance I kinda hate already and like I guess I had some townfeels on Tris but Tris just had some weird progressions
I won't like tell you to lynch Sau if you townread him but I think that balance of probabilities the both of them are scum

saudade i can read (and have already gotten some townpings off of)

i am happy to go back to plum/shos tho

[skitter30]

i think i can read saudade , we've played a lot together and his tone as one alignment as compared to the other is very different

also i want to give him space to catch up since if he's town we work super well together

pedit @rc ok what don't you like about him
@ saudade we can relitigate our history if you feel the need to but like ...

[skitter30]

who do you think is most liekly scum in that group and why?

Kinda want to talk with RCE if he picked up my directed message in this thread before answering this, to see if he agrees with my creeping suspicion about the role of one of them. It’s the one I think is either tor or scum, and it’s the former is the only reason I haven’t pushed that slot independently before.

sorry this post feels a little cryptic and/or i don't understand what you're trying to say

[skitter30]

I also didn’t like you didn’t address my point regarding you skitter.

which point ?

[skitter30]

Dammit, RCE is probably town. I took a step back and dialed my OMGUS back, as well as actually reading his posts, and they're actually pretty towny and I see effort in solving the game present.

Time to rethink some things. I honestly didn't expect this, and it became evident a lot earlier in his ISO than I ever would have thought.

@teacher wrt ari's reads
he had been scumreading him just before

Ty. I did see this but again it seemed to be moving with the board (following RCs voice iirc) rather than independent evolution, despite being worded that way.

And yes, I do have an independent scum read of ari. And I think his flip doesn’t say much about RC.

no, i'm p sure rc was still scumreading rce at the tiem (or at least, hadn't said he wasn't)
ok, why is ari scum ?

[skitter30]

also keep in mind skitter that even if somehow scum manage to get away with keeping me alive when we massclaim it's *probably* going to be obvious the setup isn't balanced if I am not a TPR

this is a true point
ok we can deal with this tomorrow i think, if we're still both here

Why are you assuming today will be a mislynch?

VOTE: Skitter30

Underlined for you to see Skitter

if you're talking about ari - i think he's town and i think you're just wrong on him (which i said already)
otherwise i don't know where you think i'm assuming today is a mislynch

[skitter30]

and that's what i'm saying wrt shos/saudade/xtoxm/bella/almost you, that if we cocnentrate on ari/rc/me/math/whatever we're never going to get content out of them, i think that pressuring the lurkers is a much more productive use of our time than deathtunneling ari or me deathtunneling rc

That’s the thing, I feel like I’ve been saying EXACTLY this since D1, but it hasn’t happened. I know I have neither the investment nor influence to make it happen, but I’d really love to make a “no discussing RC” rule for two days and see what happens in thread. It’s why, as RC pointed out, tris/plum appear together throughout my iso - me saying I need more from those slots. It’s why I tried to redirect the wagon. It’s why I began the day with a reminder that nobody was talking about xtomx. I feel like several things you have said today, I said first, and yet your nully-scum on me, for reasons I don’t quite get.

i would be thrilled with a no-discussing-rc-for-two-days rule

i would also be happy trying for plum/shos again

VOTE: plum

i honestly don't remember most of what you've said today (or that you've even been here much ... which is why i thought it was weird that you were calling ari out on being nonactive)

i don't know why i should be townreading here, and i find that alarming.
like if i'm wrong ... can you help me see that ?

[skitter30]

Interesting

I asked my teammates to help in case of issues
Their biggest issue “Why isn’t Ari dead yet?”

Like that’s been the state of my discord. I asked them to reconsider and they’re all like “Nope he’s scum” *sigh*

ok, so let's talk about ari

why exactly is ari scum (and/or why is bbmolla convinced ari is scum ?)

[skitter30]

i am in no rush to push this skitter, let him catch up and shit, and i'm also willing to default to your read if you think you're confident on him

yeah i'm not interested in him rn

i think i can read saudade , we've played a lot together and his tone as one alignment as compared to the other is very different

also i want to give him space to catch up since if he's town we work super well together

pedit @rc ok what don't you like about him
@ saudade we can relitigate our history if you feel the need to but like ...

yes u never beat me

ok that game devolved for other reasons but i did catch you

I also didn’t like you didn’t address my point regarding you skitter.

i'm reading in order (ish) and hadn't seen your posts yet, i'm working on it

[skitter30]

You’d only be dealing with mass claim possibly if today is a mislynch. If we lynch scum mass claim doesn’t come into this. The fact you’re saying we would deal with mass claim logic tomorrow is troubling.

a) i'm generally a proponent of earlier massclaim than later massclaim tbh
b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

i said i wanted to revisit the rc thing, not that i was going to shout for massclaim tomorrow indiscriminately

[skitter30]

more productive use of our time than deathtunneling ari

ok, why is ari scum ?

?????

I don’t have new things to add, which is why I hadn’t added them. If you’d like a recap, I can make one, but I don’t think it’s that productive.

i know that i don't want to deathtunnel ari rn

but you're stating that that's the push your comfortable with, and you're saying a large portion of the reason is because the people you tr want it, but you do sr him independantly
and you don't have any other strong scumreads

i'm not advocating for an ari push, i'm just like using ari read to try to get into your head to try to see what your thinking, because on the guy you wanna push rn you're basically sheeping

like can you articulate the reasons you're voting your strongest push, or are you just sheeping people ... ?

[skitter30]

Actually I just listened to you Skitter and went back and looked at his scum game from the Pine wars and I agree that it's like ungodly different from the one he's currently playing

I'm willing to put him a lot higher town ig

i actually vaguely read that one and i remember a lot of 'i promise i will be here soon' without actually trying to do anything

[skitter30]

i don't know why i should be townreading here, and i find that alarming.
like if i'm wrong ... can you help me see that

I don’t think so? Like I’m playing my totally normal game, which holds up fairly well against any of my other games that I’ve played with you, and I normally fall into the boards null-blah pile but I feel meta-you should see it? I’m not really sure what to say to this - perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised you aren’t townreading me since you never really have before (I think I even collected the links in our most recent discussion like this), but I also don’t really know how to make you see the nose in front of your face, so.....

i feel like i usually have a stronger sense for town!you by now
liek i def did in the c9++ game

like i kinda feel like you're just kinda floating around and popping in and making questionable votes / pushes that are kinda surface-level
like i don't like the snipe you made on ari when you voted him

pedit good god

[skitter30]

b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

No? It’s presumably 9-3. Tomorrow is 7-3 (worst case). Massclaim then??? No.

fuck i keep forgetting we're 12 players today

9-3 today
7-3 tom
5-3 the day after

idk i'm still a propnent of massclaim at latest the day before lylo, but with the oppurtunity to no lynch it can wait till day4 teachnically

[skitter30]

You’d only be dealing with mass claim possibly if today is a mislynch. If we lynch scum mass claim doesn’t come into this. The fact you’re saying we would deal with mass claim logic tomorrow is troubling.

a) i'm generally a proponent of earlier massclaim than later massclaim tbh
b) i was obviously referring to the worst-case scenario wherein we lynch town today, in which massclaim has to happen tomorrow

i said i wanted to revisit the rc thing, not that i was going to shout for massclaim tomorrow indiscriminately

Nah you had none of that qualifiers and early mass claim is stupid if deepwolves can exist.

I am pretty sure you’re scum.

i mean i thought it was a given that if i'm talking about massclaim tomorrow it would be because it was the day before lylo
i did miscount tho, i keep thinking we're 11 instead of 12, which messes with things

do tell tho why thinking this is scummy, i'd love to hear

[skitter30]

i'm like perpetually ~40 posts behind, you lot talk too much and too fast

[skitter30]

VOTE: Shos

Ico, Ari, let's get this game figured out.

/in =D

How can I help

I think we should leave Saudade around for the interim. Shos is a decent place to start though!

can i interest you in voting shos ?

[skitter30]

VOTE: MATHBLADE

YOU ARE FUCKING SCUM YOU FUCKING SCUMFUCK

No one fucking shoots you at night, you're just so arrogant that you think that town would think that you *HAVE* to be shot so you no killed for that reason

ummmm

a) why is math scum all of a sudden?
b) you realize you started the day thinking that scum no-killed so as not to get detective-guiltied, right ?

[skitter30]

Nah.

NSG didn't tell me to vote TW yesterday, she told me to vote Mathblade. I ignored her. I was wrong to do so.

rc just like ...
did you make up all the nsg conversations or like ...

[skitter30]

Skitter was assuming we would fail rather than pass or fail and just don’t know.

That makes her likely scum.

dude, you realize i know how to play this game, right?
and that i don't just randomly go 'hi it's time for massclaim !!!' when it's not the right time yet

you're also putting words in my mouth
i never said i wanted massclaim tomorrow

i said i would revisit rc and his claim tomororw, which is not at all the same thing

you somehow extrapolated that meant that:
a) i wanted massclaim tomorrow
b) that i

indiscriminately

wanted massclaim tomorrow (i.e. that i woudln't evalute like ... the four thousand other things that must be taken into account when figuring out if it's the right time for massclaim)

your'e also calling me scum for assuming that we're going to mislynch today ...
i did mess up and think that tomorrow is the day before lylo because i forgot at the moment that we were 12 instead of 11
but like i thought it was pretty apparent that i was only talking about the worst-case scenario

like even if i'm scum here the game is p obviously in flux and the lynch is not at all set, how can i know that we're mislynching today at this juncture, which is what you seem to be pushing me for ...

[skitter30]

like can you articulate the reasons you're voting your strongest push, or are you just sheeping people

It was to see what would happen with a vote and more momentum. It’s a scumread I have. It’s not my strongest. It’s not just sheeping, but I thought it could add something to what had been a blah day

I will type up my thoughts on ari, but that will require a desktop and tabs not mobile. What I can say as of right now is that I haven’t seen any unique content or thought process, but more posturing. (The RCE is bit is a good example, it postures at iso-reading, but doesn’t actually give any evidence of having done so and in both instances - raising the read and discarding it - seems to follow the flow of discussion). Basically I developed a scumread about mid-day one and haven’t seen anything to move me off it.

ok, fair enough, i would like more concrete thoughts on ari when u are able to do so

so the rce bit to me read like he's trying to reevaluate and reconsider his reads
he did the same thing with like 7 other people, he said rce's iso was long but that's where he's going to look next

and just like ... i don't think he cares enough / is able enough to bother with that a scum

and again his drop of the rce read predated rc's

[skitter30]

all in me harder.

it's Math/Plum/Tris, always was.

RC, I like this thought, but is it reasonable?

Would Math waste an NK like this and to what end? So a protective can claim and/or know he's lying? To try and get you lynched?

I mean, I agree that scum was unlikely to have shot him so I haven't really engaged there but I don't get this leap. And what benefits would it give his potential scumteam?

YES HE WOULD.

Double benefit

Can't be guiltied
Makes him look townier

who the fuck purposefully no kills n1 (even to mess up the gamestate)
you'd have to be *ridiculously* confident to do that and in your ability to wrangle several strong townplayers and like ... i just don't think this is a thing that scum actually do

and you keep bringign this up ???

[skitter30]

VOTE: rc
dont misrepresent what i do or say ever in your life

i feel like i'm the only voice of reason here

ok

why is rc misrepping you

[skitter30]

i feel like i usually have a stronger sense for town!you by now
liek i def did in the c9++ game

Iummm, no?

You called me scum that game?

All game?

That’s the game where I linked how many times you misread me before?

Just no.

it's possible that i'm conflating differnet games (i've played a lot and a few are starting to run together in my head at this point)
or maybe i'm thinking of later in the game (i.e. a later part of the gamestate than where we are here, comparitively)

you might be right tho, let me take a look (tomorrow (irl)) and it's possible that i'm just very badly misremembering because the picutre i have in my head of you is 'easy to read-ish around day2 by postcount, secondarily by contributions'

[skitter30]

Nah.

NSG didn't tell me to vote TW yesterday, she told me to vote Mathblade. I ignored her. I was wrong to do so.

rc just like ...
did you make up all the nsg conversations or like ...

Literally

the only change we're talking about is with regards to Mathblade
She did in fact say that Ari was a bad lynch and that I should probably unvote TW.

There's a reason I explicitly said at the time NSG wasn't reading Mathblade because I wanted to leave it out.

you realize taht this kinda changes how i perceive yesterday, right?
like i thought at least part of the reason you were so stubborn on tw was because nsg was also scumreading him ?

[skitter30]

Well there goes that productive thread atmosphere. I’m off to bed. Maths not being lynched today.

ya i feel like this too ...

[skitter30]

Because mass claim outs protectives if any.

If scum don’t realize who the protectives are then we lose the upper hand.

Right now RC either as town or scum doesn’t like the fact the block trusts me and not him.

Like mainly it’s a matter of figuring out if he’s doing this because Ari was picking up steam.

If he’s scum then...
He picked a fight with TW after TW voted him when I was pushing Ari he just waited til someone voted him. He knew that lynching a claimed detective is bad so he voted TW and kept spamming making a case impossible.

If he’s town then he can’t stand when he doesn’t get his way. Anyone else in the limelight pisses him off.

Like for the same reason we shouldn’t lynch Ari yesterday (no content b/c life) Shos has the same reason
Yet RC thinks it’s okay to pressure shos and not Ari

What exactly is the difference?

ok i think i might bounce soon because i think getting tired since i'm trying to read this and it's not really making sense but i'll try to unpack this:

right there likely being protectives is something that that we'll have to take into account sure. again, i didn't just say 'let's all lol-claim tomorrow'. i said i want to put rc on the backburner when he pointed out that his claim wouldn't necessarily make sense in massclaim. obviously massclaiming today to check that statement is ridiculous, so i said that we'll revisit that point tomorrow. the implication is that we'll be trying to decide if massclaim is a good idea then or not, not that we will for sure be having massclaim tomorrow

you're very badly misreading my words, and since i keep correcting you and you're ignoring me it feels like it's on purpose

i don't understand the comparison you're drawing between shos and ari here tbh

[skitter30]

ok i'm starting to become tired and should probably head to bed
and i don't think i can really read the rc/math thing rn and do it any sort of justice

but i will pick up at 4168 tomorrow
and i still endorse the shos thing

[skitter30]

rc i'm like perpetually 30 min / 2 pages behind and i've been here for like close to three hours tonight
i'm going to go to sleep and try to figure out where your math thing came from tomorrow

[skitter30]

I'll be here in 2-3 hours, traveling back from my weekend away