Micro 982: Dr. Hideyoshi

[Gloria Cleary]

gloria, where are you at on pooky/shelly atm?

Idk and as Brooks pointed out, neither of them tried to shift the wagon to either you or Bulge, so I honestly can’t tell yet.

Pooky suspects you most on D1 but doesn’t want to push you only Shelley and Idk now. Shelley being online and leaving her vote on a slot she claimed to tl and only unvote post-deadline looks pretty bad.

What frustrates me is that both he and Shelley seem to act like the uninformed amongst us - two now - are supposed to auto agree with their scumreads on the other but from my and the other townie that isn’t the one between them - how are we supposed to be that confident?

Gth, I think it’s Bulge/Shelley because something about Pooky’s tone strikes me as townie, so I’m very sure I won’t be voting him today.

[Gloria Cleary]

However Shelley’s tone isn’t terrible, actually only Bulge seems off and somewhat disconnected but I’m liking Pooky more than Shelley but I feel the worst about Bulge.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

they need to fool one of us to win Gloria.

So it makes sense they would be taking separate approaches to the game.

I'm all in on shelly

Shelly is all in on me.

TGP is all in on bulge.

that's how the game state is right now.

1 scum in me/shelly

1 scum in TGP/Bulge

I think Bulge might just be the clueless dude who's been pocketed and apparently completely lost. because nothing he's done this game makes any sense. Shelly also town-read him so it makes sense to me that was pocketing.

Like continuing with more suspicion on you today when you are in the driver's seat and making the decision is super clueless behavior and I would think if he is partnered to shelly that she would tell him to not play so stupid.

You will be the deciding vote today.

[Gloria Cleary]

That’s my goddamned point. He has said absolutely nothing about TGP at all and instead of trying to re-evaluate Brooks, he shades me for trying to stop her wagon. In what world does this ever come from a townie mindset?

TGP is obvious town and Idk how you’re not seeing that but I unvoted because it’s Elo and it’s possible - extremely unlikely though imo - that I could bd wrong here but very much doubt it - because Bulge’s tone is seriously off where as TGP’s is extremely transparent. I really don’t understand how you’re not seeing this?

Gloria you know today TGP v Bulge is 1v1.

TGP knows today is 1v1 TGP v Bulge.

But Bulge doesn't know it.

Why doesn't bulge know it?

If you think I'm scum with bulge dont you think I tell him what the game state is?

If you think shelly is scum with bulge, don't you think shelly tells him what the game state is?

Bulge not knowing where the game state is, means its likely he is just completely clueless/lost - which is more likely of townie than scum at this point.

No offence but most of this is just wifom, Bulge sounds really off to me. Why wouldn’t he push me today? If he can get me miselimed, he has a much easier time taking out TGP. So sorry, I don’t find any of this persuasive.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you get mis-elim'd the game is over Gloria.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and I don't see how any1 thought you could get mis-elim'd today? that's just a completely wrong read of the game state.

[Gloria Cleary]

they need to fool one of us to win Gloria.

So it makes sense they would be taking separate approaches to the game.

I'm all in on shelly

Shelly is all in on me.

TGP is all in on bulge.

that's how the game state is right now.

1 scum in me/shelly

1 scum in TGP/Bulge

I think Bulge might just be the clueless dude who's been pocketed and apparently completely lost. because nothing he's done this game makes any sense. Shelly also town-read him so it makes sense to me that was pocketing.

Like continuing with more suspicion on you today when you are in the driver's seat and making the decision is super clueless behavior and I would think if he is partnered to shelly that she would tell him to not play so stupid.

You will be the deciding vote today.

Read Shelley’s opening post. Who was her vote on before she switched it to TGP. Also, do you really think scum!TGP would really be that obvious and hard tr Shelley right off the bat and vote you? They haven’t even tried to remotely distance from each other except for iirc Shelley did shade them?

I completely disagree with this analysis but I’ll hold off voting for now.

[Gloria Cleary]

if you get mis-elim'd the game is over Gloria.

and I don't see how any1 thought you could get mis-elim'd today? that's just a completely wrong read of the game state.

Where I am rn: You are my strongest tr and Bulge is my most confident scumread but I think your read is wrong. I don’t see why you’re so certain that scum!Bulge couldn’t be pushing on me.

That’s where I’m at. I think you’re misreading the gamestate but we have time. There’s no need to rush this.

[Gloria Cleary]

I and all members of my faction that are known to me and I to them, VOTE: The Bulge and win the game.

[Gloria Cleary]

I feel like scum!gloria doesnt push against confirmed scum!pooky like that and gloria sounds pretty inquisitive so far.
Disagree with TGP sounding townie though.

VOTE: the bulge this is better.

TGP why do you think a Bulge vote is *better?* instead of scummy, etc.

i did not read that pedit

bulge we are mindmelding

VOTE: hellbooks lets go speedwagon

bulgeeeeeeeeeeee

i think im roughly at town -> scum:

gloria
bulge

TGP



hellbooks


pooky

[Gloria Cleary]

that's a bold opener from shelly (heh)

pooky if you're town fypov shelly is scum but also limming shelly scum kills a townie resulting in a conftown (you), two townies, and one maf

hmmmm shelly is wrong about not voting pooky from her pov but i don't know if it's scum wrong or just wrong

I'm not sure how important povs are to consider here. from each of their town!pov, the other is confirmed scum. but it's not like they will automatically ignore the rest of the players' povs, which is that it is probably not optimal to elim between the doctors today.

so like a vote on the other means nothing, because a vote is not an elimination. it's only fishy if one of the clones is actively pushing for the other's elim d1, but even then idk if I'd believe town or scum would be more likely to be tunnel-visioned in that scenario.

I liked these posts from Bulge.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i need to buy groceries for dinner. pls dont quickvote. you gave me heart attack last time lol.

[Gloria Cleary]

hellbooks what do you think of shelly's claim?

thank you that answers my question lol

any thoughts on gloria's lack of setup knowledge?

that said, I don't think gloria is faking here.

Both you and Shelley are masters at deepwolfing

uh, what? lol

tgp did you think gloria was implying they could both be scum? either way, do you have any scumreads? iirc you were the first to suggest limming outside of the two clones.

the townie on your wagon unvotes

this logic implies that shelly is scum (?)

I was specifically referring to either you or Bulge. I’m still not sure on which on Pooky/Shelley yet but Brooks!town looks possibly good for Pooky and possibly bad for Shelley.

So, I’m asking you if you are the town, assuming Brooks flips green, to possibly reacess if you really think she is scum here. I’m kind’ve getting a bad feeling about her flip now and if she’s town, we need to try harder to solve this.

@Bulge, please read, assuming Brooks flips town, if you are the townie (between you and TGP) on her wagon, because I’m having doubts on her flipping scum now.

I'm not sure I follow. are you backing down, or advocating for following through with the lim regardless of expected alignment for info?

bulge
gloria
booky

lets vote shelllly-scum

thx

if you think tgp is the partner, why shouldn't we from our pov elim them first for the chance at instawin and avoid the possibility of instalose?

Because I might be wrong and then Shelly will have upper hand vs me on d2. If we elim Shelly first I am IC tomm

hellbooks is the only unconfirmed player who has left themself open to eliminating within pooky/shelly today

Alright Pooky, I suppose you could be right. I just didn’t see why Bulge would be pushing the most obvtownie in the game but I suppose I could be wrongly hyperfocusing on that.

[Gloria Cleary]

i need to buy groceries for dinner. pls dont quickvote. you gave me heart attack last time lol.

I won’t. I didn’t realize it when I voted.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thx we will figure this out togethers :3

[Gloria Cleary]

pooky you are confscum and the only reason im not voting you is because the town clone dying actually doesn't put us in such a good position tbh

btw i didnt realise that pooky was confscum before since i completely misread the setup and it confused me a lot

pooky you got lucky with a mislaunchable target, but I'll try

gah.
this makes me townread shelly so hard. "pooky you are confscum", as opposed to opening with "pooky is confscum" feels like a townslip.
that being said. i have scumread town!shelly in i think every game we have played together. Shelly giving me townvibes shouldn't be happening from town shelly. so i'm lost.

VOTE: the bulge this is better.

i'll do setup spec later, but we should probably avoid limming in the dr hideyoshis unless there is a strong consensus townread or scumread on one of the two, because it's an instaloss if we're wrong without a guaranteed win if we're right.

synergy with shelly and bulge seems town from both ends

i'm good with hell but tbh i think pooky is a better lim because i'm fairly confident in shelly town

VOTE: pooky

synergy with shelly and bulge seems town from both ends

i'm good with hell but tbh i think pooky is a better lim because i'm fairly confident in shelly town

VOTE: pooky

UNVOTE:

You under no circumstances should be voting either Pooky or Shelley today or you’re killing a town scientist!

I'm really confident in my shelly tr, so upon pooky flipping red we have a 2/3+ chance of winning
and shelly being the ic considering her reads are quite good is a scenario i'm fine with
that being said, hellbooks is a better lim to end this game d1. VOTE: hellbooks

TGP voting you D1 isn’t good no matter how confident his Shelley read was and I think they would have absolutely elimed you if I hadn’t objected, which makes Bulge’s suspicion on me really strange.

I just don’t know if scum!TGP would really be that obvious.

I probably feel more confident on Pooky!town than Bulge!scum, so I will put my faith in Pooky. He just seems so obviously town here. I think I’m pretty good at reading him.

[Gloria Cleary]

pooky you are confscum and the only reason im not voting you is because the town clone dying actually doesn't put us in such a good position tbh

btw i didnt realise that pooky was confscum before since i completely misread the setup and it confused me a lot

pooky you got lucky with a mislaunchable target, but I'll try

gah.
this makes me townread shelly so hard. "pooky you are confscum", as opposed to opening with "pooky is confscum" feels like a townslip.
that being said. i have scumread town!shelly in i think every game we have played together. Shelly giving me townvibes shouldn't be happening from town shelly. so i'm lost.

VOTE: the bulge this is better.

i'll do setup spec later, but we should probably avoid limming in the dr hideyoshis unless there is a strong consensus townread or scumread on one of the two, because it's an instaloss if we're wrong without a guaranteed win if we're right.

synergy with shelly and bulge seems town from both ends

i'm good with hell but tbh i think pooky is a better lim because i'm fairly confident in shelly town

VOTE: pooky

synergy with shelly and bulge seems town from both ends

i'm good with hell but tbh i think pooky is a better lim because i'm fairly confident in shelly town

VOTE: pooky

UNVOTE:

You under no circumstances should be voting either Pooky or Shelley today or you’re killing a town scientist!

I'm really confident in my shelly tr, so upon pooky flipping red we have a 2/3+ chance of winning
and shelly being the ic considering her reads are quite good is a scenario i'm fine with
that being said, hellbooks is a better lim to end this game d1. VOTE: hellbooks

TGP voting you D1 isn’t good no matter how confident THEIR Shelley read was and I think they would have absolutely elimed you if I hadn’t objected, which makes Bulge’s suspicion on me really strange.

I just don’t know if scum!TGP would really be that obvious.

I probably feel more confident on Pooky!town than Bulge!scum, so I will put my faith in Pooky. He just seems so obviously town here. I think I’m pretty good at reading him.

[Gloria Cleary]

like bulge should know its 100% not you by this point because TGP's vote is on him. If it was Gloria-Scum, you would just vote him with whoever is scum between me/shelly and win the game.

this is a scumslip, i think

from a neutral pov, basically there are two options for why pooky did not hammer
either pooky is scum with bulge
pooky is scum with gloria or me and knows bulge is adrenaline tweaked
pooky is town and shelly is scum with bulge

either pooky did not acknowledge that bulge could be adrenaline tweaked town because pooky is scum (and knows bulge is not adrenaline tweaked) or because pooky actually forgot, and i think the latter is quite unlikely because they have been on this site for 17 years
and anyways option #2 is laughably unlikely

so i'm town, gloria is near conftown
bulge is therefore near confscum
and between pooky/shelly, pooky is looking a lot more like the scum, especially since shelly apparently loves playing scum but is inactive here and active in other places on site

so i think it's bulge/pooky

Meh Here is my problem with this. Both you and Shelley have accused Pooky of having a tmi read on me for entirely logical reasons. While this is of course not outside the realm of possibility, Pooky’s read on me makes logical sense. Remember flipped town also called me “confitown”.

I still think it’s Shelley/Bulge and that Pooky is wrong town because she was posting elsewhere on site and just left her vote on a slot she was townreading. That looks seriously bad, no matter how you look at it and now she’s positing the possibility of my being a white knight, so she’s either possibly interested playing the good cop to Bulge’s bad cop or she’s pocketing him.

I have no clue how to read Shelley but something pings me town about Pooky.

But Isis answering my Shelley prod question will I think possibly resolve this once and for all. If Shelley intentionally ignored her prod than she’s lying about forgetting about the game, so Isis can clarify that in a heartbeat. She is either telling the truth about forgetting about the game - ergo, she didn’t get the prod in time or she did and she is outright lying about that.

@Isis, please tell us, when did Shelley receive your prod - BEFORE or AFTER the deadline expiration date?

If she received it BEFORE than she’s very likely confiscum here, since she was posting elsewhere on site and left her vote on a slot she townleaned and only unvoted it after it was too late. Otoh, if she received the prod AFTER the deadline expired, than it’s NAI.

[Gloria Cleary]

yea TGP has a much better game-state read than bulge.

today is basically 1v1 between Bulge/TGP and 1v1 between Shelly/Me with Gloria as decider.

I think that's actually more indicative that bulge is Clueless!idiotTown and TGP and shelly planned out how they would play today.

I’m not convinced on that. I do think that you’re likely the town between you and Shelley and if Isis confirms that Shelley got the prod BEFORE the expiration date, I’m locking you in as town. I need a helluva lot more to convince me on your “clueless” Bulge theory though.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm not 100% sure on Bulge but I'm 100% sure on Shelly so if we get Shelly we don't need to get the right one between Bulge/TGP.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm not 100% sure on Bulge but I'm 100% sure on Shelly so if we get Shelly we don't need to get the right one between Bulge/TGP.

Well, if Isis confirms that Shelley got the prod before deadline expiration, then she’s confirmed to be lying that she forgot about the game.

In any case, in no world should town leave their vote on a slot they were tl with a plurality eiim. She was literally the only one who tl thar slot and didn’t unvote them. So something is extremely suspicious about that. And this thread ought to be showing up for her even if she didn’t get the prod anyway. So it just looks really bad but especially if she got the prod in time to unvote.

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm not 100% sure on Bulge but I'm 100% sure on Shelly so if we get Shelly we don't need to get the right one between Bulge/TGP.

Yeah, I still think I’m right because TGP has much better tone and Bulge seems kind of disconnected somehow but rn leaning Shelley over Bulge but weakly.

I think it’s hella weird that Bulge says absolutely nothing about TGP at all and shaded me. TGP just seems more transparent. I actually disagree with you. If Shelley’s scum and leaning yes, I think she and Bulge could be playing good cop/bad cop gambit wrt me and TGP being this confident on town!me reads very town indicative because scum!TGP knows he can’t win against me, so I think it would be gamethrowing for them to confidently vote out Bulge here. Notice, they aren’t being even remotely hedgey about it so yeah I think I’m right that it is a Shelley/Bulge team. I’m not familiar with any TGP scumgames and I should probably check them out but their tone and level of engagement is so much better. And I have a really hard time believing Shelley doesn’t try to get him to distance more obviously but leaning Shelley since you didn’t want to vote TGP yesterday and now it’s Bulge and you’ve made it abundantly clear you’re never voting me, so I don’t really see the scum mindset in that.

I just need to understand why fmpov a possible Bulge miselim is actually worse than a possibly Shelley one?

[Gloria Cleary]

I'm not 100% sure on Bulge but I'm 100% sure on Shelly so if we get Shelly we don't need to get the right one between Bulge/TGP.

Yeah, I still think I’m right because TGP has much better tone and Bulge seems kind of disconnected somehow but rn leaning Shelley over Bulge but weakly.

I think it’s hella weird that Bulge says absolutely nothing about TGP at all and shaded me. TGP just seems more transparent. I actually disagree with you. If Shelley’s scum and leaning yes, I think she and Bulge could be playing good cop/bad cop gambit wrt me and TGP being this confident on town!me reads very town indicative because scum!TGP knows THEY can’t win against me, so I think it would be gamethrowing for them to confidently vote out Bulge here. Notice, they aren’t being even remotely hedgey about it so yeah I think I’m right that it is a Shelley/Bulge team. I’m not familiar with any TGP scumgames and I should probably check them out but their tone and level of engagement is so much better. And I have a really hard time believing Shelley doesn’t try to get him to distance more obviously but leaning Shelley since you didn’t want to vote TGP yesterday and now it’s Bulge and you’ve made it abundantly clear you’re never voting me, so I don’t really see the scum mindset in that.

I just need to understand why fmpov a possible Bulge miselim is actually worse than a possibly Shelley one?

Sorry TGP.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if the scum team is shelly/tgp - they can win today on elimming bulge if bulge is not vengeful person.

fmpov if we elim shelly there is no way scum team can win.

[Gloria Cleary]

Dr. Hideyoshi's clone

Dr. Hideyoshi has been a respectable leader in the genetics lab for years, but something has gone wrong.

1

Mafia Clone of Dr. Hideyoshi

1

Mafia Clone Scientist

1

Town Dr. Hideyoshi

3

Town Scientist

From the start of the game, the mod reveals which players look like Dr. Hideyoshi.
There is only night zero. During Night zero, the mafia chooses a town player to be

Adrenaline-Tweaked

, and a Town Scientist to be

Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone

. They must be different. Those town players are not informed.

• If someone who looks like Dr. Hideyoshi is the very first elimination, the
  Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone
  becomes remorseful and eliminates themselves.
  
• If the Mafia Clone Scientist is the very first elimination, the most seditious scientist doesn't get to do enough whispering, and everyone realizes having two Dr. Hideyoshis can just be a chill thing actually and town wins.
  
• If a Town Scientist is the very first elimination, the
  Adrenaline-Tweaked
  player gains Day 2 Vengeful. However, if the
  Adrenaline-Tweaked
  player is themselves the player who was the very first elimination, the
  Creator of Dr. Hideyoshi's Clone
  gains Day 2 Vengeful instead. The player is not informed that they have gained Vengeful.

The game uses a parity win condition (checked after venges resolve).

@mod how does a D2 vengeful even happen if the player who has it is not informed of it?