Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[Aneninen]

Anen, I think you're town and I think Always is scum so seeing you on the wagon is cool and all, but there's no way the "bus" thing was a slip. It was clearly a joke. Could he still be scum with Yos? Sure. But not for that reason.

Maybe you're right and it was indeed a joke. But that's not the main reason why I'm scumreading AI. And his reaction to my post (where I pointed out that "bus") was scummy too. I was never talking about his intelligence.
Why do you think Yos and AI could be scums together?

By the way, here's something else about AI. His wagon clearly seems to be derailed. And if I'm right about this, Yos can't be scum.

Is it hard to leave the thread when you're scum and under pressure?
Always have that feeling that you need to defend yourself in case you get lynched while you're away?

I don't think that's unique to scum. Getting lynched as town sucks too.

...especially on Day1.
However, sometimes scums are leaving the thread in the middle of the conversation for a while so as not to look over-defensive.

For those wondering who I side with on Yos vs BBT, I'm honestly not sure. I usually decide these things quickly, but both are good players so it's hard. Yes, Yos sounds more logical but his logic feels like it has holes and might be insincere. BBT is also playing to his scum meta, but his scum meta is to look town as fuck so that's pretty shitty to base a case on. I don't like BBT not replying to Yos' case but the case wasn't that great to begin with. I know this sucks, but I could go either way on both players.

Why do you think Yos is more logical?
As for BBT, you don't think you're right. That seems to be his town-meta (...which I'm scared of whenever I'm scum).

Look at his word choices. He keeps saying stuff like "page 4 reads are shit" and going way out of his way to try to discredit that list. He's not just trying to lynch me, he's trying to lynch me and to discredit that list.

Having read that list again I don't think it is worth the effort talking about.
I too think that list was terrible, yes. But I don't think it was scummy. And most importantly, I don't think it is worth discrediting it.

unvote, vote: always innocent

approximately one bajillion things are going on, and there's a pile of people scumreading him for all sorts of reasons at this point, and ai is arguing about whether he's making jokes instead of engaging with any of it.

^^
That.

ftr kmd is still a scumread and he is still looking very scumbuddytastic with always innocent.¹ i also hate the whole paragraph above that starts with "for those wondering..." about yos and bbt, it's so scummy i want to barf. yos and bbt both town?² i am actually coming on board with that conclusion a bit right now. yos really needs to ignore bbt and do something else with his time right now though i'm not reading any more of that back and forth.³

(1) and (2) – Elaborate, please!
(3) – Indeed.

bus?
BUS?

This is the second joke that you missed. Please don't insult my intelligence.

The problem is, I don't know if you would make that joke if you actually thought i was scum. You clearly care a lot about how you look, so if you actually thought I was going to flip scum, you would be worried that people think you and I are connected.

Insead, you're joking about it, which really only makes sense if you already know I'm going to flip town. Even when you're trying to lynch me. Putting the 5th vote on a bad wagon on me for no reason in fact.

That sounds logical, acutally.

MOD:

Mod, I'm gonna have to go vla until at least Wednesday.

My phone broke and this tablet thing is weird and hard to use but I'm working the next two days for 16 hours each day so I'm not sure when or how to get a new phone or if it will even be any good for internet. Sorry I didn't bold. Not sure where those bracket things for bbcode are with this damn thing. Honestly I may be phoneless until March.

FIFY, Kmd

[AlwaysInnocent]

My joke was actually directed at roflcopter's ridiculous claim that we are scum buddies and that I must be bussing you if I am voting for you.

I just don't know if you would really be that blase about that if you really believed i was going to flip scum. Makes me wonder if you are scum.

If being blase makes me scummy, then I guess I understand why people keep thinking I am scum when I am town.

If you are scum, then your play makes more sense. In that case, you would want to play up the idea that we are linked, and you would want to lynch me. That way when I flip town the case against you kind of collapses.

No, it doesn't. People will find something new to frame me with.

If I were scum and you are town, I would have made better use of you anyway. I probably wouldn't have made that joke either, since I probably would have been more careful. People always take these jokes the wrong way.

Anyway, if you are town, then perhaps we have been looking at the wrong people. What do you think about Aneninen? I am starting to think that he knows that I am the VI in this game and picks an easy target, when he probably should know better if he were town.

[Aneninen]

Anyway, if you are town, then perhaps we have been looking at the wrong people. What do you think about Aneninen? I am starting to think that he knows that I am the VI in this game and picks an easy target, when he probably should know better if he were town.

I've never thought you'd be a VI.
Calling yourself the easy target, on the other hand, while Yos is the leading wagon is pigeon poop.

As a matter of fact, I don't really get why I'm

that

town. I mean, compared to the effort I've made so far, there are too many townreads on me. Which means, there must be at least one scum amongst those players.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Anyway, if you are town, then perhaps we have been looking at the wrong people. What do you think about Aneninen? I am starting to think that he knows that I am the VI in this game and picks an easy target, when he probably should know better if he were town.

I've never thought you'd be a VI.
Calling yourself the easy target, on the other hand, while Yos is the leading wagon is pigeon poop.

As a matter of fact, I don't really get why I'm

that

town. I mean, compared to the effort I've made so far, there are too many townreads on me. Which means, there must be at least one scum amongst those players.

Like who?

[Aneninen]

I don't know.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Meh. I don't know about Yosarian anymore. After skimming through his ISO a bit, my impression of him is different. Perhaps I was too paranoid when he was townreading me.

UNVOTE: Yosarian

[AlwaysInnocent]

If Yosarian is town, was BBT framing him, to get rid of an experienced player on D1 without having to NK him?

Whatever is the case, one of them (BBT or Yosarian) is likely town.

[acryon]

Isn't it clear that there is a difference between "I'm going to play a little fast and loose with my play and votes early on since it seems like this group will react to it" and deciding on each vote "This is what town needs in this moment". I will certainly prescribe to the former, but the latter is a bit too calculated for even me. Feel free to re-read my last post if you want further clarification here.

Uhhhh. You were the one who said you do what you think town needs when you were asked about those votes. I asked why and you suddenly had nothing. To be perfectly honest, I'm having trouble following this (it's 8am and I just got out of work after getting there at 2pm) but it seems like you're all over the place on it and not talking about the same thing I'm trying to talk about.

Eh, you're missing my point. To be it simply, it's the difference between playing a playstyle based on what the town needs, and making every specific action based on what town needs. If you can't tell the difference based on that, then just forget it.

I think I just explained that?

He's trying to scumhunt, he doesn't care how his scumhunting makes him look, he's aggressive, he's not being cautious. Those are all town traits.

The main difference between town and scum is that town's #1 priority is to find scum, while scum's #1 priority is not being lynched. When a person starts taking risks, being aggressive, and sticking their necks out to try to find scum, apparently without caring how it makes them look, that's a town tell.

Fantastic. Now, tell me why these tells apply to AI and not me? Because I'm not seeing consistency in your reads.

Consistency is a scum tell.

Although I wouldn't say consistency is definitively a scum-tell, I would say that scum are generally more likely to be consistent than town.

Not really WIFOM. Person A calls person B town, person B votes person A. Person B is clearly does not care about trying to stay on person As good list. Which makes me thin AI cares more about scumhunting then survival..

This makes sense. Only way this is wrong is if the two are both scum. And if they are, there is no reason for scum-Yos to comment on it like he did. Yos is town people.

UNVOTE:

Eh, it's a fairly effective strategy for scum to sit back, especially early on and let the town tear each other up.

Although I told it someone else before, I'm telling it again: it's not the

only

strategy. Some players start out agressive as scum too.

Definitely agree.

Unsure about who I want a vote on at the moment. Will put one down tomorrow if I can.

[Zar]

Day 1, Votecount 7, Ammended

AlwaysInnocent (4): Kmd4390, Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter
Yosarian2 (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
texcat (1): Kop

Not Voting (4):

texcat, shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Spoiler: Incorrect VC

Day 1, Votecount 7

AlwaysInnocent (3): Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter
Yosarian2 (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell
acryon (1): Kmd4390
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Yosarian2
Lucky2u (1): Albert B. Rampage
texcat (1): Kop

Not Voting (4):

texcat, shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Kmd4390 is V/LA until Wednesday

~~~.Vote count fixed. ~.Zar

[roflcopter]

stop using the i'm an easy target defense ai, if you were an easy target you'd be lynched by now

[AlwaysInnocent]

stop using the i'm an easy target defense ai, if you were an easy target you'd be lynched by now

Could you tell me what your read on Aneninen is?

[Lowell]

stop using the i'm an easy target defense ai, if you were an easy target you'd be lynched by now

Good post, and good point.

[Lowell]

unvote

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent

I still think yos might be the better play (given the yos/AI interactions earlier) but it's time to apply pressure on AI. Also, Anen and rofl are my two strongest townreads, so I'm comfortable with this.

[Yosarian2]

The most notable thing Aneninen's done so far is go way out of his way to defend BTT. He even took the time to find links to another game and stuff.

If BTT is town, I can't really see scum-Anen acting like that.

If BTT is scum, maybe I'll take another look at Anen. But I think that the correct play is to lynch BTT first and then recalibrate.

Honestly, even assuming BTT does flip scum, I'm still not really seeing hypo-Anen-scum go as far as he did in defending him when he wasn't in that much real danger, but I hate to ever call "defending a scum" as a town tell.

[AlwaysInnocent]

unvote

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent

I still think yos might be the better play (given the yos/AI interactions earlier) but it's time to apply pressure on AI. Also, Anen and rofl are my two strongest townreads, so I'm comfortable with this.

Why is Aneninen a strong townread?

The most notable thing Aneninen's done so far is go way out of his way to defend BTT. He even took the time to find links to another game and stuff.

If BTT is town, I can't really see scum-Anen acting like that.

If BTT is scum, maybe I'll take another look at Anen. But I think that the correct play is to lynch BTT first and then recalibrate.

Honestly, even assuming BTT does flip scum, I'm still not really seeing hypo-Anen-scum go as far as he did in defending him when he wasn't in that much real danger, but I hate to ever call "defending a scum" as a town tell.

Classic buddying.

[Yosarian2]

I guess? I donno, if me and BTT are both town wouldn't hypo-Anen-scum just let us fight?

[AlwaysInnocent]

I guess? I donno, if me and BTT are both town wouldn't hypo-Anen-scum just let us fight?

Not sure. Scum-Anen might want to control the flow of the discussion, to prevent town-BBT and town-Yosarian from trusting each other, even if they don't vote for each other. Or he could buddy one of them in the process.

[roflcopter]

yosarian what % chance to do you think there is of you convincing the town to lynch bbt today?

[AlwaysInnocent]

I think the scum can be found in this pool:

{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Seriously doubting that Yosarian is scum.

[Aneninen]

I think the scum can be found in this pool:
{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

This, alongside with your unvote looks important.
Give me some details, please!

[AlwaysInnocent]

I will.

[Yosarian2]

yosarian what % chance to do you think there is of you convincing the town to lynch bbt today?

Meh. It's not going to be easy, certanly, especially not since some of my town reads seem to be townreading him.

I'll be willing to do a compromise lynch if necessary, but no reason for me to give up this early, we've got plenty of time. Anyway, even if I can't get him lynched today, I really want to at least get some votes and some pressure on him and maybe force him to start making sense and posting something real so we can get a better read on him.

[roflcopter]

i just find it curious that you're doggedly sticking to a vote you seem to know isn't going anywhere and still haven't voted for ai despite now apparently completing the evolutionary process of your read on him from town to scum

[Kmd4390]

Anen anyone could still be scum with anyone.yos\always is possible as is any other pairing\trio. On yos sounding logical, the way he's presenting his arguments just comes off that way. Read the rest of that point though. If he isn't being sincere, he may just be trying to sound logical. Can you show me a game where bbt played this way as town? I feel like I remember him being less of a presence as town but maybe I'm wrong.

I reeeeeeally don't like alwaysiñnocent using the vi card. He seems like a pretty smart dude. Or his invite of yos right after anen calls yos the easy target, although his vote sucked to begin with so meh. Just the timing feels shitty.

Acryon, nope I don't see the difference.

Roflndid you ever answer my question? I seem to have missed it if so.