Newbie 1412 - GAME OVER

[Tamuz]

Or I'm annoyed at Bulbazak for harassing the shit out of me this game and I'm looking for way and means to humiliate him.

[Hanasawa]

Then please do it AFTER this game.

That's a very circumstantial circumstance also, Bulb. I think a lack of professional communication between hodge and Marquis is a more solid reason as to why Marquis made the kill. Probably because of the late day claim that Marquis did lead to the defeatist idea, something I don't think Tamuz would condone as scum partner, since Marquis was screwed the day after the moment he claimed.

If it's any consolation though, I did this Marquis's whiteknight comment with Tamuz earlier kinda did seem like a potential suck up to Tamuz and possible buddying there which makes me more hesitant to say Tamuz is scum.

[Bulbazak]

I think there may be 1 game where I haven't harassed you. There are better ways to go about proving your innocence if you're town.

P-edit: Sometimes circumstantial evidence nails scum. Given that Marquis fake claimed, he should have known that he was likely going to be targeted by the town PR. No matter how he was getting along with his scumpartner, Marquis should not have been the one carrying out the kill. That's the one thing about a Hodge-scum case that doesn't make sense. However, Tamuz's predecessor was absent at that time, and Tamuz had not replaced in yet. Marquis was all alone and had no choice but to carry out the kill. It's circumstantial, yes, but it's the only thing that makes sense given what we know.

[Hanasawa]

We're talking about Marquis here.

This is the guy who didn't even know how many nights in a game he was in when he did a terrible fakeclaim in Skype mafia where he claimed doing two night actions when we only had one. I wouldn't put it past that he has constant lapses of judgement...but now that I say that, it sounds way more circumstantial than what you've put up.

I just don't think there's any evidence outside that that would lead Tamuz to being scum. Using that as the only evidence against Tamuz isn't that great in my opinion.

[Tamuz]

Temporally it doesn't work after the game, Hana.

If you really think there is any possibility I'm scum, confront my case on hodge, most accessibly located in this post. However it is a consistent narrative, iso if you'd like.

Pedit; I didn't put that up to 'prove' my innocence or even support it. I put it up to get back at you for all of your harassment.

Also please keep attacking my predecessor, I know 100% what an AFK newb was doing and thinking and I will 100% be able to defend them. Address MY play if you have point otherwise go to bed, reread and think before you post again.

[Bulbazak]

Tamuz, I don't think your case against Hodge is bad. However, I just can't get past Marquis delivering the NK when he was guaranteed to be targeted that night.

[Tamuz]

If you were scum, how do you win, Bulbazak?

[Tamuz]

vote: hodge

[Bulbazak]

If you were scum, how do you win, Bulbazak?

Do you mind rephrasing the question?

[Tamuz]

With two myopic lynch pairings:
hodge-bulb
tamuz-bulb

How does scum bulb order and push the two lynchings to win?

[Bulbazak]

Are you asking which order I'd push you 2 as scum? No clue, because I wouldn't have played this way if I was scum. I don't squander NKs.

[Tamuz]

Thanks for not answering the question and instead going on a tangent!

And I think mastin will agree with me after the game that, if the NK was a result of trying to kill him or trying to get him lynched it wouldn't be a squander.

[Bulbazak]

If I didn't answer your question, then what exactly

was

your question? Again, asking about what scum Bulba would do in this situation is hard to answer, because scum Bulba would not have made the choices to be in this situation.

[Tamuz]

Such a cop out.

Amrun, pm me for the prod when and if it comes, I'm done wasting time on this game.

[Hanasawa]

It's L-1 to hodge, just pointing that out.

Also, I can not believe what I am reading from Tamuz.

[Amrun]

VC 4.0

(2) hodge - Hanasawa, Tamuz

(1) Tamuz - Bulbazak

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Not Voting: Smurf Ninja Fan, hodge


V/LA:

Deadline: Monday, October 21 11:30pm EDT

Spoiler: Vote History

Smurf Ninja Fan

-

Hanasawa

- hodge

Tamuz

- hodge

hodge

-

Bulbazak

- hodge > Tamuz

If you spot any mistakes, please let me know.

This is an official warning that all site bets (such as avatar bets) are against site-wide rules and regulations. I will leave it as a warning, but don't let it happen again.

[hodge]

I've been saying through the game I believed Bulba to be scum, but after Tamuz's start to day I have to agree with Bulba here, to me it looks like Tamuz has panicked after someone putting them as a suspect and gone into ultra defensive mode by attacking others (such as with the avatar bet).

Bulba's point about the night 1 NK also fits too, no reason as to why I wouldn't have made the night kill being active and around while Marquis had aroused large amounts of suspicion and without knowing what grid we were in there was the chance of JK, but Marjam being away meant Marquis had to do it.

This will probably all get cited as opportunistic but hey just my thoughts about the day so far.

VOTE: Tamuz

[Tamuz]

Breaking my decision to do nothing but post this every 48 hours:

Prod dodge!

Vote: Hodge!

because whatever.

If I didn't answer your question, then what exactly was your question? Again, asking about what scum Bulba would do in this situation is hard to answer, because scum Bulba would not have made the choices to be in this situation.

The question is, more simply, if you are scum and we continue with this 3-player, binary myopic lynch process you need to survive two lynches.

So either you win using:
Bulb v hodge
Bulb v Tam

In whatever order.

or you win using:
hodge v Tam
Bulb v Hodge

in

exactly

that order.

If Bulbazak is scum, which one is he more likely to push? If Bulbazak is town, which is he more likely to push? For both roles what reasoning would he give to assert one choice pair over another?
These answers could be interesting. I still think you're just a jerk and hodge is scum though, so w/e.

More importantly:

I've been saying through the game I believed Bulba to be scum

Citation please? You limped that he was scum at the beginning of D2 using an appeal to the graveyard. Once the CC from Karnage came out you dropped any push on Bulb, made 0 value judgements and implicitly accepted Karnage as the real Jailkeeper. I've written this up before.

to me it looks like Tamuz has panicked after someone putting them as a suspect and gone into ultra defensive mode by attacking others (such as with the avatar bet).

1. "Ultra defensive by attacking."
How contrived can a comment get?
2. While I'm reproaching Bulbazak, I have not attacked him in the sense of calling him scum. So your entire 'point' is not a point.
3. Explain this panic? I had more people having me as a suspect yesterday than today. Why wasn't I as flippant yesterday?

Bulba's point about the night 1 NK also fits too, no reason as to why I wouldn't have made the night kill being active and around while Marquis had aroused large amounts of suspicion and without knowing what grid we were in there was the chance of JK, but Marjam being away meant Marquis had to do it.

This still is not a point. I've yet to see a game where a scum partner can't declare the kill to be done by someone else in the team. If you want to make this point, provide a game in a newbie where the mod disallowed Partner A to say Partner B makes the kill.

Also please keep attacking my predecessor, I know 100% what an AFK newb was doing and thinking and I will 100% be able to defend them. Address MY play if you have point otherwise go to bed, reread and think before you post again.

---

This will probably all get cited as opportunistic but hey just my thoughts about the day so far.

Just because you note that something is scummy doesn't dismiss the scumminess of it.

This is an official warning that all site bets (such as avatar bets) are against site-wide rules and regulations. I will leave it as a warning, but don't let it happen again.

Sorry Amrun. I may revisit this after the game.

[Bulbazak]

If Bulbazak is scum, which one is he more likely to push? If Bulbazak is town, which is he more likely to push? For both roles what reasoning would he give to assert one choice pair over another?

Again, tough question. My scum mantra is typically "What would town Bulba do?", although there are some obvious exceptions to the rule. I'm torn, because with that in mind, Tamuz would obviously be the push that I would go for as scum. However, Hodge is very tempting as well, and I wonder if I would pass up the opportunity to push him first, especially since I think a Tamuz lynch would work much better in Lylo. Actually, screw it, I'd be pushing Hodge right now if I was scum. That opportunity just screams to the scum side of my brain.

I've yet to see a game where a scum partner can't declare the kill to be done by someone else in the team. If you want to make this point, provide a game in a newbie where the mod disallowed Partner A to say Partner B makes the kill.

People rarely assume that they can make their partner perform the kill. I think I've only done so once, and that was out of pure desperation. Speaking from my own personal mod meta, I require scum to PM me their night kill choice, and usually from the one doing the NK. I can see how someone would not leap to the conclusion that they could still have their partner perform the kill if their partner was absent.

*On a general note: My computer died last night. I'm currently leeching what time I can off other computers, but I can't guarantee all of that time will go towards Mafia. Consider me on limited access until further notice. Hopefully, I can get a new computer soon. I just may not be posting as much in the interim (I'll see if I can get on at least once a day.).*

[Smurf Ninja Fan]

Hey guys, back again, got internet back and sorted. Bulb is right about the assumption about who can make an NK. I certainly didn't know you could nominate your partner, so I'd say it's safe to assume the same about marquis.
Personally, I'm feeling tamuz as scum, because he could play with not NKing karnage because he wasn't suspected, and thus set up mastin and then bulba for the scum read afterwards.

[Tamuz]

he could play with not NKing karnage because he wasn't suspected, and thus set up mastin and then bulba for the scum read afterwards.

This is not grounded in reality. If I set up mastin and am setting up Bulba, where is my push that Bulba should be lynched? Also:

Karnage, don't bother JKing Mastin tonight.

JK Tamuz instead

. Scum just made this game easy.

I think you are right.

VOTE: Mastin

As of now I intend to jail Tamuz tonight in the event that mastin is town.

not suspected If you're going to say assertive things actually have something to back it up or else you make yourself look really dumb.

Bulb is right about the assumption about who can make an NK. I certainly didn't know you could nominate your partner, so I'd say it's safe to assume the same about marquis.

It is not safe to assume, silly.

[Smurf Ninja Fan]

I was typing pretty quick, could set up either bulba or hodge, but yah. as for assumption, might be the case based on past experiences, which it is for me.

[Tamuz]

It still makes 0 sense. Mastin basicaly hada 100% town read on me going into N2. Think that through in relation to the scenario that you're proposing.

To me, it's effectively a question of "Bulbazak, or hodge?" at this point. So I'm weighing Bulbazak, and weighing hodge. Since it's a fairly decent probability that I'm living to see D3 (the only way I wouldn't is if the scum nightkilled me successfully), I can afford to wait to form my conclusion on which is the most likely.

[Bulbazak]

It still makes 0 sense. Mastin basicaly hada 100% town read on me going into N2. Think that through in relation to the scenario that you're proposing.

To me, it's effectively a question of "Bulbazak, or hodge?" at this point. So I'm weighing Bulbazak, and weighing hodge. Since it's a fairly decent probability that I'm living to see D3 (the only way I wouldn't is if the scum nightkilled me successfully), I can afford to wait to form my conclusion on which is the most likely.

And Mastin can't be wrong?

[Tamuz]

You didn't think through what I am saying.

I'm not saying "mastin says I'm town ergo I'm town". I'm saying "given mastin's stance on me, it makes no sense for me to set in motion the lynch on the aggressive player who is convinced I'm town if I were scum."