Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[Cheetory6]

Seems like a stretch.

I've done it as scum more than I care to admit.
So.
I don't know what to tell you?

Well I think it's hard to be 100% certain about anything. But obviously you must have had some level of confidence in the point considering you voted her for it. If you had just off-handedly said "Tammy's anger here feels fake", then that probably wouldn't have bothered me too much. But you voted her for it, which expresses a level of strength that I have more difficulty understanding (even if it wasn't 100% certainty). What is your read on Tammy right now?

Which expresses that it was the strongest feeling that I had at the time? I asked people to talk at me about it for a reason.

I can't remember much of this...

Tammy, Pie and Nacho all giving the general sentiment of calling my meta feels wrt Tammy so bad that it couldn't possibly be coming from my towngame.

it hasn't felt like your frustration has been entirely with yourself (like this quote implies).

I feel a little frustrated that there's so much negative content being generated at me, but I'd be an idiot to think that it wasn't happening for reasons that are largely my fault.

you were under more pressure in the advance wars game, I thought

My reaction to that increased pressure was also a lot worse than it has been here, I feel at least.

[fferyllt]

It looked pretty town, actually.

I pressured you to the best of my ability because I wanted to confirm/refute orci's offsite meta case on you. The further that push went the more offbase I felt.

[Wickedestjr]

I've done it as scum more than I care to admit.
So.
I don't know what to tell you?

Example?

Which expresses that it was the strongest feeling that I had at the time? I asked people to talk at me about it for a reason.

I understand that it was your strongest feeling - I'm just having trouble believing/understanding why you would value it so much. What is your read on Tammy right now?

Tammy, Pie and Nacho all giving the general sentiment of calling my meta feels wrt Tammy so bad that it couldn't possibly be coming from my town game.

But that's the only example, that I can remember, of you being called wrong/misguided on something.


BTW, Cheetory, you might have missed it, but the other day I asked: have you iso-dived through Anen's posts yet? It's fine if you're haven't, I'm just curious what you think of him too.

[Cheetory6]

It looked pretty town, actually.

I mean. I hope to never get townread via being angry and aggressive like I was that game again >.>

Example?

I'm just having trouble believing/understanding why you would value it so much. What is your read on Tammy right now?

I mean, I never implied that I valued it "so much", I think I've made it pretty clear that I've been struggling with finding good scumreads.
My read on Tammy is approximately nullscum with basically no basis because I'm not feeling grounded yet.

But that's the only example, that I can remember, of you being called wrong/misguided on something.

Three different people giving you the impression that they think you're playing embarrassingly bad if you're town is enough to make me upset, especially since all three of them wrote a dedicated amount that made me feel that way >.> zzzzzzzzzzz.

BTW, Cheetory, you might have missed it, but the other day I asked: have you iso-dived through Anen's posts yet? It's fine if you're haven't, I'm just curious what you think of him too.

I can add it to my list of things I need to do in mafia q.q

[Cheetory6]

Fuckkkk I'm so scatterbrained today:

Example?

Open 585: Jungle Republic, Open 582: Fire and Ice, Passport Please Mafia.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm just having trouble believing/understanding why you would value it so much.

I mean, I never implied that I valued it "so much", I think I've made it pretty clear that I've been struggling with finding good scum reads.

Semantics... Replace "so much" with "as much as you have" in that sentence.

Open 585: Jungle Republic

Who did you get angry with in that game?

[Cheetory6]

Who did you get angry with in that game?

pisskop.

Semantics... Replace "so much" with "as much as you have" in that sentence.

I don't think it is semantics though q.q
Like. I don't feel like I was scumreading Tammy for that as hard as you're saying I was. It felt more like a lead to me. >.>
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Wickedestjr]

Who did you get angry with in that game?

pisskop.

Thanks, I'll check it out

Semantics... Replace "so much" with "as much as you have" in that sentence.

I don't think it is semantics though q.q
Like. I don't feel like I was scumreading Tammy for that as hard as you're saying I was. It felt more like a lead to me. >.>
zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I don't feel like I'm saying you're scum reading Tammy as much as you think I'm saying you are. You seemed to find it more voteworthy than anything else - which is strong enough for me to question it.

[implosion]

I chose to vote pie because pie seemed like the kind of player who should have been towntelling harder but wasn't. I then intended to look into that more to see if there was actually anything to that, and neglected to do so/every time I started things just looked null.

Idk. I read Cheeto as town. I think his talking about himself is very genuine, and some of the points that have been criticized for inconsistency (like Wicked criticizing the "i want to scream right now" line) felt very consistent to me. He said he was going to try to be patient at the beginning of the post, wrote a giant-ass post, then posted another post 25 minutes later. That feels consistent.

The way he's talking about how he's going to towntell while taking ownership of the fact that he's being read as scummy reads to me as being genuine. I don't think he's scum.

[pieguyn]

experiential meta. I've played against scum-RC a couple times, and town RC once. This doesn't feel like his scum games. he plays a very assured and town-looking game as scum.

I'm cautious and I want to keep reevaluating but so far I feel like he's town here.

link me the scum games you're comparing it to?

[fferyllt]

I'm in the middle of meta-ing a ton of cheetory games. hopefully will have some conclusions tonight

my gut agrees with implosion, but that brings me back to where the hell are scum hiding in ths player list.

[implosion]

where the hell are scum hiding in ths player list.

that is a god damn good question.

notscience is one of the people who I never really had an actual good reason to townread, and I'm still making up my mind on pieguy (although surprise surprise, my initial reading of pie's cheeto arguments was null...) but I at least have theoretical room between the two of them I guess and Anen for all of my real townreads to be town unless I'm forgetting someone and actually have more room.

[fferyllt]

experiential meta. I've played against scum-RC a couple times, and town RC once. This doesn't feel like his scum games. he plays a very assured and town-looking game as scum.

I'm cautious and I want to keep reevaluating but so far I feel like he's town here.

link me the scum games you're comparing it to?

scum games:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=35056 - I feel this one maps very nicely to what he's said about his scum game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=27745 - first game I played with him. there was one tiny misstep he made in this game that I wish I'd pushed harder onl.

Town games:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30368 - sangres game. I was pretty paranoid about RC in this one, but nacho correctly townread him.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=39196 - you and I hydra'd in this one. RC was lynched day 1. We weren't on the wagon. By the end of day 1 I was pretty freaked about the way we were being scumread and yet every time we voted it seemed like the wagon momentum changed with us.

[pieguyn]

Idk. I read Cheeto as town. I think his talking about himself is very genuine, and some of the points that have been criticized for inconsistency (like Wicked criticizing the "i want to scream right now" line) felt very consistent to me. He said he was going to try to be patient at the beginning of the post, wrote a giant-ass post, then posted another post 25 minutes later. That feels consistent.

The way he's talking about how he's going to towntell while taking ownership of the fact that he's being read as scummy reads to me as being genuine. I don't think he's scum.

I don't agree with this. I think it's likely he would start playing like this regardless of what his alignment here is: town-him would realize he's having an off game and step back, scum-him would see a bunch of people pushing him and go into damage control mode. taking ownership of the fact you're being read as scummy is a really easy thing to fake.

[pieguyn]

I considered voting Cheetory but I kind of want to give him at least some room to get back into the game if he's town here. I think if he's town, I'll be able to figure it out once he catches up - and I'd explicitly prefer to see him catch up on his own accord as opposed to influencing it by voting him.

also, I don't *really* have any problem with RC's posts outside of the initial issue re: notsci (which I'm willing to drop given Nacho is saying it's not a scum tell for him). will probably look through his scum games tonight.

[implosion]

Idk. I read Cheeto as town. I think his talking about himself is very genuine, and some of the points that have been criticized for inconsistency (like Wicked criticizing the "i want to scream right now" line) felt very consistent to me. He said he was going to try to be patient at the beginning of the post, wrote a giant-ass post, then posted another post 25 minutes later. That feels consistent.

The way he's talking about how he's going to towntell while taking ownership of the fact that he's being read as scummy reads to me as being genuine. I don't think he's scum.

I don't agree with this. I think it's likely he would start playing like this regardless of what his alignment here is: town-him would realize he's having an off game and step back, scum-him would see a bunch of people pushing him and go into damage control mode. taking ownership of the fact you're being read as scummy is a really easy thing to fake.

I'm not saying he might not do this as scum. I'm saying I think the way he's doing it reads as genuine in tone, consistent, etc. Sure it could be faked but it doesn't look like it is to me.

[Tammy]

I am super behind in life, but Empire is visiting so yay!

Anyway, I hope to catch up here before I go back to sleep though I've skimmed.

Cheetory - Where did I get your meta wrong?

[notscience]

I am catching up now.

[notscience]

Okay

So

[notscience]

I am not sure how I feel about the pages I just skimmed

[fferyllt]

details?

[notscience]

There were words on the page but Im just kinda like

"what did I read"

[fferyllt]

how do you plan to figure those pages out?

[notscience]

Look tomorrow when I'm not tired?

I don't really know

My eyes glaze over walls

[Aneninen]

I think I'll able to start catching up with everything soon.

We've had our windows changed. If you've ever done anything similar you may be able to imagine the mess we have here.

No surprise that Mafia is not the priority now. If you want to help me catch up with everything post your questions, recent events, etc. in a form I saw from Wicked, having checked the game for a minute or so. Thanks!