FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[hiplop]

and thats what makes posting right now so hard? I know I'm town, but I also am sorta lost. I personally think Radja makes the most sense right now, but I'm also sorta petrified about what I've been doing (which has been admittedly horrible play. I keep flip flopping in my head about really important things and its really quite frustrating)

I feel like this game is a puzzle but I have the wrong pieces?

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 6.6

[3] Radja (The Antagonist, hiplop, Seiko x Naomi)
[2] mastin2 (ProHawk, Xtoxm)
[2] ProHawk (mastin2, Radja)

[2] Not Voting (Cerberus v666, pirate mollie)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-09-21 17:00:00)

[Radja]

I'm sort of trying to catch up as the game moves on. I have not read much... I wouldn't know where to start.
I'm not really understanding why people want to Lynch a doc. I have never seen a scum doc before. And I wouldn't know how that role would make sense.

Anyway... I have no clue what I'm doing. If anyone would be so kind to list the current claims, maybe I can work from there. I had missed Antagonists, maybe there are others...
I'll work from there, I suppose.

[ProHawk]

Why did you replace in?

[Radja]

I wanted to help out the mod and I like FF7...

I thought people would make it a little more clear to me what was going on. At the moment I replaced in, I asked for claims. I got this:

Multiball game, lots of one faction is dead the other(s) seemingly in tact

XtoxM is a sensor and there is essentially 1/3 scum (AT LEAST) in the pool of Jaqen/Kaboose/Cerberus. They are the people who were off the wagon of ZZZX.

Jaqen claimed tracker and said mastin was likely guilty but the claim was sorta weird and the idea now is that jaqens results were somehow compromised? You should probably read that interaction for yourself. Lots of complex variables there.

uhm, Mastin says he knows kaboose is town (so if you believe mastin its 50/50 at least with jaqen/cerb being scum)

what else should I say?

So I worked from there.
Looking back at that post, I'm missing quite a lot of claims, which nobody mentioned in the next posts.
It even said that Jaqen's claim was weird, which is why I did not protect him.

Now, the choice is yours. Try and get me updated on the game. Or lynch me. At this point, I don't even care anymore.

[ProHawk]

I thought you wanted me lynched?

[mastin2]

So I had all day to think about things.

And this is what I came up with. Bit messy, jarred, but basically...

notscience, pieguyn, Cerb:

Remember how ETL said of me, "Oh, kill her anyway"? How basically...in the lategame, I can be a nightmare to deal with? Notty doesn't know what I'm talking about...but he does know the game ETL was talking about, the second Antihero game. How basically, lategame I can be a severe threat to deal with, even though I get self-confidence issues which can and often do sabotage it.

And that's what I wanted to talk about. Here, there's that self-confidence issue. But I want to invoke my one-read policy.
You might know it by now.
I don't ask of it often. But I catch one scum in a game. Mediocre-good is my scumhunting rating. One scum, and done. I don't know who the second scum is. I can guess. I can analyze, try to figure out, but I don't know. Yet I do know who the first one. That being...ProHawk.

He is scum. And dammit. I want him lynched today. Not me because of my lack of self-confidence, not someone else just stalling, I want it him. So I'm going to fight.

[The Antagonist]

sigh this game is dead

[mastin2]

pirate mollie:

I know you have your paranoia-doubts about me, but this is the one time where you need to trust me and vote ProHawk.

Seiko x Naomi:

You've been saying one of ProHawk/myself is scum. I'll take that risk. Help me lynch ProHawk. If I'm wrong, I'll eat the lynch tomorrow even if it ends up being a game-losing mislynch. I'm that certain ProHawk's scum, that willing to take the risk on him. So please support me.

Anti:

I'll make you a deal. If ProHawk is lynched today, then I will give a serious, serious, SERIOUS look at Radja being scum. I'm not going to make an absolute promise I'd let Radja be lynched (because if for some ungodly reason ProHawk flips town, my promise to Seiko overrides my offer to you), but short of a ProHawk townflip, I can promise you that I'll be looking it over, scrutinizing the thread, and absolutely trying to figure it out.

It's five to lynch, so that would be enough, but I'll see if I can get some from the others, too.

I'm not going to idly sit by; I want to take active charge of the town, right here, right now, for this moment.

[hiplop]

why didnt you make a plea to me?

[mastin2]

Okay, yes. You were talking about how your town game is plans which just don't work out, and pointed to that whole interaction with kaboose as proof of it. In inorganic, you blamed the night you killed me, on one such plan not working out. Essentially, there's proof there that your scum play can easily contain complex gambits and plans which look town aligned, but simply don't work out.

Technically, that wasn't my plan--that was LC's plan, which I worked to subvert. LC had two plans that game. The first, the weak cop strategy; I destroyed that by figuring out the weak cop on D2. (Not even N2, on D2.) The other was claiming to be my role; I figured that out and used it to my advantage when he claimed it in order to perform a nightkill I'd never be able to get away with under any other circumstance. (Yours.)

Incidentally, this is also true for Wicked. Wicked made a plan, and I used that plan to justify him being nightkilled; without it, my reasoning for letting him die would've been on far shakier grounds. But it was still HIS plan, not mine.

My scum plans that game all went off flawlessly. (Well, near-flawlessly, anyway.)
I never made any town plans; I just subverted the existing ones.

As town, though, instead of manipulating existing plans, I'm the girl creating the plans.

Also, your clear on radja, based on(reasons I would need to go back and reread your posts to recollect properly), but essentially a clear based on the logic easily available in the thread, which anyone could figure out if they actually thought about it, is very reminiscent of your unnecessary(but necessary to you) clear of TSO in inorganic as well.

I've done no such thing?

I mean, if you read my thoughts in the mafia topic, it becomes clear that the moment I thought of the TSO-clear was actually before the TSO-clear ever happened. On D2 (yes, that early), I said that if any of us received the cop invention the night we killed the cop-inventor, we could simply not choose to claim it, breaking the chain and robbing the town of the info. So when the cop inventor died and TSO claimed his result, I just connected the dots already there.

But this game, don't recall anything of the sort. Closest I've done is defend Xtoxm, but that is very much not the same thing. A lot of the Xtoxm defense comes from Aeris, a player that I have an established history of being okay (not great) at reading who was displaying a strong towngame, with a roleclaim that sounds

insanely

town, with players having initially treated the role in such a way that it increased my townread. (There was suspicion about the legitimacy of the claim, there was the idea thrown around to lynch him to confirm the claim, etc. I've seen that done before on a town sensor claim, and it was driven by, no surprise, the scumteam plus a few of the weaker derpier town players. So when it happened this game, the conclusion was obvious.)

Yet Xtoxm's actions since then have thrown that read out the window basically. He's gone from second-strongest-town to a candidate for being scum, yet-unplaced. (If we weighed in contribution value, he'd be second only to ProHawk in scum, with Radja placing a distant third. But that'd be purely off of what content they're providing.)

How does the guilty not actually make any sense, and how do the claimed night actions not add up?

The guilty doesn't make any sense because I am very much blatantly town. The claimed night actions don't add up because of the Kaboose inno. Redirection is possible, but the presence of a redirector no matter what is an indicator I'd be town anyway.

mastina what did your vca look like again?

Not sure I ever finished it, but I believe the VCA said hiplop-Antagonist, a conclusion that while certainly possible is not one I'd want to place much faith in right now.

radjas vote on prohawk is awful
like prohawk is a scummy slot but its pretty blatantly just to not get lynched

Well, yes. I hold basically no interest in defending Radja anymore pretty much from that post, and it'd be enough to slightly throw into question the ProHawk read, but I'm going to gambit on ProHawk still being scum in spite of the Radja vote.

[mastin2]

and thats what makes posting right now so hard? I know I'm town, but I also am sorta lost. I personally think Radja makes the most sense right now, but I'm also sorta petrified about what I've been doing (which has been admittedly horrible play. I keep flip flopping in my head about really important things and its really quite frustrating)
I feel like this game is a puzzle but I have the wrong pieces?

Solution:
Trust me and vote ProHawk.

sigh this game is dead

Yeah, and me doing this is

exactly

what we need to liven the game up. So please work with it and vote ProHawk.

I promise that if nothing else, it'll get the game out of the stall. And it very, very likely will do so by giving us a scum lynch.

[ProHawk]

Or instead of lynching Prohawk, we could lynch the tracked guilty. This is rocket science.

[mastin2]

I'll say that thanks to early-game interactions, ProHawk's not scum with Xtoxm, though.

[ProHawk]

Wait, are you calling Xtom scum now?

[mastin2]

So I'm probably not going to finish this whole thing, but. Rereading the game. Found something interesting already.

[5] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi)
[4] Jaqen Hghar (Varsoon, ZZZX, Focus Beam, Prohawk)
[1] Psychlone (Aeris)

So when it comes to the Focus Beam wagon, it mostly makes sense. Singer was random, Antagonist has ika in there, Mollie was weirded out, I was weirded out, and when looking at that stage of the game, both notty and pie look really obvtown to my eye.

When it comes to the Jaqen wagon, V was random, ZX was also random (albeit scum random), Titus was serious, and four posts later, for the same basic reason, ProHawk votes. Compare:

Varsoon, what do you think of Jaquen's awkward entry? Sal's not a fan due to Jaquen being passive upon entry and I'm worried that you're going to go all Professor Mafia on our asses.

A statement of analysis, trying to figure the gamestate out, with good insight.

To this:

VOTE: Jaquen
No speech imped?

Off of limited Jaqen posting, he makes a serious vote that has no meat to it. It's pseudo-content, meant to blend into the crowd without actually giving anything. It is scum, sticking out like a sore thumb.

[mastin2]

Wait, are you calling Xtom scum now?

I'm considering the possibility off of his posting, yes.

He just can't be scum with you, and since I think Shinra's eliminated from the game and that you're Meteor...yeah.

[Radja]

UNVOTE:

[ProHawk]

Lol @ mastin for trying to turn my random vote into something it isn't.

[mastin2]

I looked into the exchange between ProHawk and Aeris. At first it reminded me of what happened between ProHawk and me in Frog Mafia, but after another read his questions to Aeris made sense to me, and he has not been solely focused on her either.

I did look for this, btw, and absolutely cannot see it. At all. I don't know what happened in Frog Mafia, but if it was scum basically getting into meaningless fights with a town player off of semantics and irrelevancies, then that's exactly what I saw from ProHawk rereading. I saw him engaging in a pointless fight which he should have known was pointless, and it WAS his focal point.

[ProHawk]

I guess I can give you props for actually manning up and pushing me for a lynch this phase instead of calling me your biggest scum-read all game while lynching other players. But I suppose this was your strat all along.

[mastin2]

UNVOTE:

Well Radja's either town or scum with ProHawk.

How

stupid

would he have to be, as scum, to UNVOTE the wagon that's supposed to be his counterwagon?

As in...by unvoting ProHawk, Radja is

placing his own life in danger

.

So either Radja's scum with ProHawk who very much doesn't want him actually lynched...
...Or is town that was just monumentally stupid by unvoting. (I lean towards this one.)

(

Radja

, place your vote back!)

In either case, the solution is to lynch ProHawk, not him.

[mastin2]

Lol @ mastin for trying to turn my random vote into something it isn't.

Your random vote was, very very clearly, not very random at all.

It was done dead seriously, and was on a bandwagon to boot, freshly after a vote on there for nearly-identical (but much more organic) reasoning.

[ProHawk]

You know what I find even more hilarious? Mastin is hard pressed to find people that could be scum with me. She literally has to make up garbage and then mold her story to fit her narrative.

Sorry chickie I made the vote and it was random. It was my first post of the game.

[ProHawk]

I mean obviously Jaqen not being in character is a scum tell so I should obvs seirously vote him.... nope I'm not a moron. Try harder.