War in the Palace

[Amrun]

I like this game a lot. Not sure I like the "no kills left = dead assassin" though.

[PokerFace]

well him not dying makes him def too powerful

Correct me if I'm wrong:

The only difference between the two scenarios is that, in the second, the assassin may play on if he has used up both kills and at least one king is still alive. And if the assassin reaches endgame with no guards alive, then the assassin wins, despite having no kills left.

If I'm understanding correctly, then the first scenario (where the assassin loses if he has no kills left) is the way to go. Otherwise, this may happen:

Three player endgame. King, guard, and assassin left. If the assassin still has a kill, then he has the game won; he just needs to use that kill on whoever he wants. If he kills the king, great. If he kills the guard, then he's left alive with the king, and he still wins. The assassin can't go wrong in that situation.

No. If the assassin has used both kills, and at least one king is still alive, the assassin should die.

[shaft.ed]

the way the mechanic works, the assassin is just playing a game of avoiding the lynch while trying to lynch the King's and saving his kills for the vengeful play. There's really no point in him shooting prior to that. In fact I'd argue he's better off having the kings alive for a while because he can pit the opposing guards against one another and get a lot more info about. I'm really not sure why he even has the ability to actively kill in the first place as it's a bad move in pretty much any situation I can think of.

[PokerFace]

In normal AiTP the assassin has the power to make his suicide bomb at any time. And yes the usual and best play for the assassin to make is not make the kill until his lynch. So what I'm doing there is keeping things consistant

Are you suggesting I forbid this assassin from making any of his 2 kills until he is lynched?

Do you think he needs that done to him?

[shaft.ed]

In normal AiTP the assassin has the power to make his suicide bomb at any time. And yes the usual and best play for the assassin to make is not make the kill until his lynch. So what I'm doing there is keeping things consistant

Are you suggesting I forbid this assassin from making any of his 2 kills until he is lynched?

Do you think he needs that done to him?

i think it simplifies the role PM and other mechanics while preventing a non-familiar player from doing something that is suboptimal

Has anyone ever used the suicide function in AiTP? It seems like it's just a cocky way to win

If I were running it, I would make him just have vengeful kills because it streamlines things. But it isn't absolutely needed.

[Trojan Horse]

Yeah, I think shaft.ed has it right here. I can't think of any situation where it's advantageous for the assassin to make a kill early. So we might as well forbid him to kill until he is lynched.

Unless the assassin is alive with one or both kings, and no guards are left. Then the assassin shoots the kings automatically, of course.

[Herodotus]

well him not dying makes him def too powerful

Are you sure? Maybe if the assassin makes it into the final 3 with a kill remaining, or the final 4 with both kills remaining, they deserve the win. That would depend on the number of guards.

[PokerFace]

with there being 9 players him surviving to the final 4 may be an easy task since 1 kings death does eliminate all guards to the king yay I think this best way to word assassin:

You are the assassin.

If there are 2 kings alive and you are lynched then you get to make 2 vengeful kills

If there is 1 king alive and you are lynched then you get to make 1 vengeful kill

You win the game if both kings die. You win the game if you are alive and all guards are dead. Use your vote and your kills to bring an end to it all.

[PokerFace]

Beause of November crash this thread lost alot of posts. Ultimatly these were the final roles decided on in order to not allow for mass claim and an overall balanced game

War in the Palace

1

You are

King Alpha

. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. You have a 1-shot kill you may use at any time. If King Alpha is alive then this kill must be done in thread by posting

Kill: X

. If King Beta is dead then you may PM the mod this kill. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are

King Beta

. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. You have a 1-shot kill you may use at any time. If King Alpha is alive then this kill must be done in thread by posting

Kill: X

. If King Alpha is dead then you may PM the mod this kill. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

6 (3 to each king with the real name or king in the role. Ultimatly guards only know who 1 king is and don't know if they are alpha or beta. They are revealed as guards at the time of their death)

You are a

Guard

. XXXX is your King. You win the game if XXXX is alive, the other king is dead, and the Anarchist is dead. If you king dies you will immediatly commit suicide out of shame. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

1

You are the

Anarchist

. You have 2 vengefull kills you may use at the time of your death. The number of vengeful kills you have is equal to the number of kings currently alive in the game. If one king gets lynched you will loose one of your kills. No player is immune to kills. You win the game if King Alpha is dead and King Beta is dead. You don't have to be alive to win. You also win the game if all guards die and only you and both kings are alive. Use your vote and kills to bring an end to all order.

[PokerFace]

I ran AiTPPPPokerFace3 which was a themed WiTP on January 28. Team Lady Gaga won and the game flavor was:

XXXX has been lynched he was PokerFace. __________ have commited Suicide. It is now day N. Game continues.

XXXX has been lynched she was Lady Gaga. __________ have commited Suicide. It is now day N. Game continues.

XXXX has been lynched he was Alejandro. The thread has been locked. Time to see some explosions!

XXXX has been blown up he was PokerFace. XXXX has been blown up he was Lady Gaga. Alejandro wins!

XXXX has been lynched he was a Guard. With every guard dead, the remaining king(s) are left with just Alejandro. Alejandro is the only player with 2 kills left. Alejandro wins!

XXXX has been lynched she was Lady Gaga. With Alejandro already dead, Team PokerFace has Won

XXXX has been lynched he was PokerFace. With Alejandro already dead, Team Gaga has Won

XXXX has been blown up he was a Guard. Alejandro has died and lost the game

With Alejandro dead and no guards remaining, PF and Lady gaga are forced to set aside their differences and come to a truce?...

___________

Lady Gaga Win Ending:

Lady Gaga: Oh yay thats right I am the greatest singer there is. I don't owe anyone money now. How did I get so good. Well I was born this way.

Time Traveler: I thought you were born with a dick?

Lady Gaga: What the? But you're dead!

PokerFace: Yay I sorta broke the space time continuum awhile back so reviving myself and or preventing my own death is easy.

Lady Gaga: So you're sorta like a zombie then?

PokerFace: You could put it like that. Point is you will never get rid of me.

Lady Gaga: How about we make a mutually benefitial compromise, together we do something good for the both of us?

PokerFace: No deal. I want money or your song off all air ways worldwide! That song annoys me!

Lady Gaga: Oh come on, there must be songs or artists that annoy you more than I do?

PokerFace: Well...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Rebecca Black and Justin Bieber have been found dead! Cameras at the scene were unable to read the faces on their murders. Police have no leads and will likly not waste their time. Extra! Extra!

__________________

PokerFace Win Ending

PokerFace: Lady Gaga sat on a wall. Lady Gaga had a great fall! All the kings horses and all the kings men can't put her together again! Oh yay! Sadly though I don't think I'll be getting any money now. And Gaga's death will likly put her songs all over radio waves for weeks in tribute. I won't profit and will likly be more annoyed than ever. Damn, wish I had thought this whole war thing out further before Gaga and Alejandro died. Alejandro surely got the bad end of this thing. I mean I barely gave that guy a back story and I've already killed off his character. Fourth wall break aside, what's left for me? What am I to do? There must be someway still remaining to profit from my image...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Stock's in P. F. Chang's Restaurant Franchise rising after scummer endorsement deal. Extra! Extra!

__________________

Alejandro Win Ending

Alejandro: Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Time Traveler: Ha Ha Ha Ha! So what are we laughing about?

Alejandro: You? But how? How are you alive? How am I alive, didn't I kill myself?

PokerFace: Yay i'd explain it to you but theres just no time, I'd much rather vidge you in the face

Alejandro: But what will you gain from killing me? Without Gaga I don't really see a need for any of us to fight. There is no fame or money coming from her music that could hurt of benefit us now

PokerFace: So what do you suggest we do instead?

Alejandro: Well...

Cliche Newsboy: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! New song "Night 0" by Alejandro Featuring VidgeMaster P and Snoop Dogg has climbed to the top of the Billboard Charts. Extra! Extra!

__________

Wierd Ending (This is end if Alejandro blew up last 2 guards leaving only PokerFace and Gaga alive together. I didn't want a first to post next kill wins scenario. One person's name and post could be shorter than the other and given possibility of lag I figured a tie was deserved in this kind of situation)

Lady Gaga: Yes that fool is dead and I will beat you next PF

PokerFace: You and what army?

Lady Gaga: Me and My dance crew will... Ok it appears they are all dead

PokerFace: As are those other me's from the past and future

Lady Gaga: How exactly did you get those other you's without destroying all space and time?

PokerFace: Yay when space and time are destroyed the only outcome is parallel dimensions. So getting a bunch of me's from other places never really hurt anybody real to this world. It just created multiple realities where anything is possible.

Lady Gaga: huh, is that science theory or is that fact? Don't those other realities need the yous that belong in them?

PokerFace: Kinda, but not exactly. I got a fail safe module built into my time machine. If a being dies in a dimension not his own, he just warps back to his real dimension, though he will have memories of that foreign dimension in his mind. A minor side effect, but for the most part, the end result is worth it as one can not die in a dimension that doesn't belong to him. It all works on the principle of no free energy. You can only be destroyed in the same dimension you were created in.

Lady Gaga: That's rather interesting. But are you certain that is the only side effect? Did you actually test the fail safe? And what will those memories lead those other you's to do? IS THE REST OF THE WORLD SAFE? ARE YOU CERTAIN THE REALITIES WON'T SOMEHOW SUFFER AND IMPLODE FROM THE TEMPORAL STRESS OF YOUR ACTIONS?

PokerFace: Not really

Lady Gaga: You'd risk the end of all things just to get what you want from me?

PokerFace: Well I figure we have survived this long, whats the worse that could happen?

Doctor Who: You don't want to know...

[PokerFace]

AiTPPPP3 was an odd exception to how AiTP games normally go, as the anarachist was found mad fast and he killed 2 guards of the same faction. The king of that faction got forced to kill when he was at L-1 and as his shot of wrong the other kind shot back for the win. The players in the game voted whether or not to include WiFOM and oddly enough I feel that led to the assassin getting found earlier and asking about kings. WiFOM AiTP games seem to find assassin's earlier but expose info about kings early as well. While non-wifom games tend to catch assassin's late so they die with less info, but less players are still alive so their targets still get narrowed down. It sounds like an equal trade off but overall WiFOM games are won more by the assassin and non-Wifom is won by the kingdom. I prefer WiFOM games as they tend to be more fun and not just a quick lynch + random kill spree. I feel I get to enjoy myself and hunt for the right info or right ways to decieve others. And that feels more like mafia to me

[PokerFace]

<<Necromancer

The holiday marathon day brought about 2 more WITP games

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24625

One had a questionable descision by a king to use their kill before the mod revealed a player's role. Be certain you lynched the assassin before you make your strike

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24717

Other game had 1 king get lynched day 1 forcing a mass suicide right day 1

So games have had guards, assassins, and even kings get lynched early. I am pleased with the outcomes so far

Assassin = 2 wins

Kingdom Alpha = 1 win

Kingdom Beta = 0 win

Grey Ice was lady gaga (King Alpha), Majify was a king alpha, Theslimer3 was a king alpha

Money Bags was me (King Beta), Red Panda was a king beta, Zabriel was a king beta

If anyone from AiTPPPP3 can remember the full player list in that game I would appreciate it because I have forgotten 2 players:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4592960

[Robocopter87]

You should run a couple in the Micro Queue if you have time, I'm sure that would definitely give you some more data.

[Leafsnail]

I would make the following modifications to the rules:

1. The assassin should be able to commit suicide (and then use his vengekills). This allows him to bring the game to a close swiftly if the kings have been outed in some way rather than allowing the game to drag on.
2. 2 heirs alive should be a draw for both heirs (rather than a win) and a loss for the assassin. Otherwise in a King/King/Guard scenario either King can immediately send in a kill knowing they've won, and it comes down to a speedpost with no judgment required. With this rule you'd want to identify the enemy king for a win rather than a draw. e: I guess it's still somewhat speedposty but at least there'd be some judgment involved.
3. Kings shouldn't have a kill until either the assassin or the enemy king dies. If the assassin dies they get a public daykill, if the enemy king dies they get a private one. This means the kings don't have an option available that will always make them lose.

[PokerFace]

In response to your first suggestion,

I have seen a few games where an assassin did not understand the rules and killed early thinking he got multiple kills each night and such. I don't want to allow a player to make that mistake as i feel it kinda ruins the game. Throughout the thread before we discussed the benfit of them killing vengefully and figured this was best

In response to your second suggestion,

I am not sure what you are saying. If 1 guard is alive its still first kill in gets the win. Or if one is lynched before anyone gets a kill, that will make the non lynched king win. Only in the event where the 2 kings are the

only

alive players and both have kills or neither has a kill I consider it a draw. If one king has a kill and the other doesn't, then its obvious which one wins

In response to your third suggestion,

I like this idea and have pondered something simular since those 2 games. I however am not sure of the symantics or grammar on writing in that setup change to the kings roles. If you want to write it out or can come up with a good way to translate it, then I will use it

As far as the micro queue thing works, I have been on mafiascum for awhile and moderated face to face games and moderated on irc, scumchat, marathon games, and a site that isn't arround any more. As none of those have records i can give at mod /in I am technically uneligable to mod a micro. My work/real life schedules have always been busy and with how the queue mod lines work outside easily timeable/predictable patterns I have refrained from ever signing up to mod games in the general forums here. Perhaps one day they will feel my creditials are enough or I will find the time to join the queue's bit by bit. Until then though, someone else is more than welcome to borrow my setup and give it a good running in the micro if they want to.

[Leafsnail]

Your 1 is fair, but I think if the action is labelled "SUICIDE" then it should be clear that you won't get any more shots after it. I think Vengeful should still be in there, but this just prevents a game that the assassin has already won from being dragged out.

2: That makes sense. I'd still consider it a draw since they haven't really achieved their win conditions but I guess it doesn't matter too much.

3. My suggestion for the King role:

"You are Heir Alpha/Beta. You win the game if you are alive, Heir Beta/Alpha is dead, and the Assassin is dead. If the assassin dies you will gain a 1-shot kill you may use at any time - this kill must be done in thread by posting

Kill: X

. If Heir Beta/Alpha dies you will also gain a 1-shot kill - you may PM the mod to use this kill."

[Robocopter87]

I'd be honored to run one for you, you can handle all the setup and I'll simply do the necessary grunt work that Mods have to do.

[PokerFace]

Thank you Mr. Snail, here's a further breakdown

You are

King Alpha

. You win the game if you are alive, King Beta is dead, and the Assassin is dead. If King Beta dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you can pm to me at any time. If the Assassin dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you must use in thread by posting

KILL: XXXX

. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

You are

King Beta

. You win the game if you are alive, King Alpha is dead, and the Assassin is dead. If King Alpha dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you can pm to me at any time. If the Assassin dies, you gain a 1-shot kill that you must use in thread by posting

KILL: XXXX

. Use your vote to figure out who is on your side and weed out the rest.

@copter,

What all have you modded before? Have you ever modded an AiTP game? They often go ridiculously fast. Game days have often been shorter than real life days. This is another reason why I usually only run these on marathon days. I feel it is easier for me to free up the time and easier for players to free up the time. Kinda makes this ultimatly more far for those that would normally have work and miss an important game moment. Basically makes participation easier for everyone

@anyone,

Why AiTP. Why not AITP or AitP. Need a grammar guru here

[Robocopter87]

Crap tons of Newbies, a couple Mini Themes, a Micro currently, a few Open games and marathon games. Around 25 modded games, without Marathon games counted.

Never AiTP, and I don't really mind having it go fast. But I understand using them on Marathon games, I've been meaning to get into one of them but never really got the chance.

So yeah, like I said, offer is on the table. Doesn't bother me either way.

[Leafsnail]

Why AiTP. Why not AITP or AitP. Need a grammar guru here

I would've thought AitP since you don't capitalize "in" or "the". Unless The Palace is a proper noun.

[PokerFace]

Well i feel foolish. I searched the wiki and apparently all 3 of those have been used and are considered appropriate. So whichever is correct doesn't matter then i guess

@robo

Well alright if you want to run it I welcome you to it then. You do sound like you can handle the task. I am not 100% familar with the micro rules/requirements for game setups but if you can run it there then go ahead. Let me know when you plan to run it. I might try to rewrite the assassin role as snail suggested so that they can suicide bomb instead of vengeful bomb. I have been pondering that suggestion as of late