[ACCESS CODE 1461] Paradox Prime - Endgame

[AurorusVox]

Time has slowed to a crawl. Nothing stirs.

[Desperado]

I'm waiting on Dan to respond

[ActionDan]

prod received. GREs taken. Housework .... incomplete T_T.

SOON

[PeregrineV]

I'm waiting on Dan to respond

This.

[PeregrineV]

@Avox- How many players can go through the Gate in a single day?

Not sure if I'm not getting an answer, or if it was missed.

@Dan- ???

[PeregrineV]

Intent to vote.

[Desperado]

On whom?

[Desperado]

Starting on LYLO doesn't really work if one of the players flakes...

[PeregrineV]

Weekend is coming up. I don't always get to the site on weekends, and deadline looks to be Sunday.

I'll check back, but FTR, I don't see town flaking in LYLO.

[ActionDan]

I have to replace out. I'm getting denied internet access for a few days now.

I hope my replacement rips both of you new ones.

Btw peregrine. You don't need me to "respond" to contribute to a discussion. I frankly think Despardo is still scum because his argument simply cannot be of a town mindset considering it knowingly obscures what I'm saying and doesn't apply the same scrutiny to Peregrine. (It's not like he ever considers the possibility of Peregrine "faking it")

3rdly. Both of you should read the flavor.

##Vote Peregrine

[ActionDan]

##Unvote

##Vote Despardo

my bad

[ActionDan]

Oh in case I am lynched today, trust me that It's most likely Desp.

[Desperado]

Btw peregrine. You don't need me to "respond" to contribute to a discussion. I frankly think Despardo is still scum because his argument simply cannot be of a town mindset considering it knowingly obscures what I'm saying and doesn't apply the same scrutiny to Peregrine. (It's not like he ever considers the possibility of Peregrine "faking it")

So what's more likely? That Dan is scum, is responsible for the timeline, likely knows why we're in LYLO right now, and has had more reason to understand the nuances of the setup than you (a VT) and me (a non-time travelling Robot)?

Or you faking not knowing anything about the setup?

Because I'm thinking Dan is scum.

##Vote: ActionDan

[AurorusVox]

Day 6 | Votecount 3

PeregrineV

(0)

Desperado

(1) - ActionDan

[L-1]

ActionDan

(1) - Desperado

[L-1]

Not Voting (1): PeregrineV

Desperado is at L-1
ActionDan is at L-1

With 3 alive, it is 2 to lynch

Deadline is

6:00pm GMT, 1st July 2013

. That's in (expired on 2013-07-01 17:00:00).

[ActionDan]

Well, I now have stable internet.

That's a good thing.

Reponse Inc T-1 hour

[ActionDan]

Couple other things I noticed on a reread:

However, I remember reading that there must be a scum at Lylo => one of the three of us here is scum

This is so forced.

It also doesn't fit with his criticism of the LYLO point in #33. He had no problem with me declaring it LYLO originally (and in fact needlessly build on that point) but then he "hastens to add" that I stated it as fact once he's decided to FOS me?

One of you two will be the lynch today. And if I were to claim you both would understand that.

You claimed, but I don't understand.

That means it's impossible to cause a paradox today because it hasn't been decided yet who's going to die today. That means scum can't kill tonight because they have to spend a paradox to do it. (or course if they did it would be really obvious who was scum because ostensibly a mislynch today means 2 people left and scum can only kill the only other non-scum during the night before the next day [unless the two people pop up during the Night of the kill which would make some sense I suppose])

In conclusion I want to be sent to scout ahead.

Also I guess I could claim because aliens can't actually kill me unless they spend 2 paradoxes to break the timeline.

This really sticks out for a couple reasons:

1) The first paragraph is a rambling mess than doesn't make any sense
2) The conclusion doesn't follow from anything in the paragraph above it (or anything in the rest of the message either)
3) All the talk about paradoxes (not just here but everywhere, including his claim) just doesn't sit well with me. The Aliens are the only faction associated with paradoxes in the rules, and unless he has a really good explanation for why his Reviver role includes spending a paradox of his own, I'm going to assume he's scum fakeclaiming.

I have a good educated guess as to who the mafia is in this lylo already. How about you guys? Or are you still working on reads, figuring out game mechanics, or feel the need for more discussion, (or perhaps a claim from me)?

There is no town motivation at all to voting without claiming.

This reads like a pretty blatant scum attempt to force a quicklynch, and is indicative of his attitude the whole day; he has approached this situation as if his supposed role PM gives him some kind of authority or immunity, to the point where he was asking for a vote without having claimed, and it positively reeks of scum strongarming a situation that heavily, heavily favors them.

My sentence about remembering Lylo was simply an innocuous comment from what I had remembered of the rules. I had no problem with you declaring that it was Lylo originally. I have a problem with you accusing me of knowing too much when it seems to me you have just as good a grasp of the setup as I do. I mentioned both you declaring it Lylo AND you claiming immediately. Context is important. Despite whatever argument you have about "it's lylo did you really expect not to claim?", it is pretty obvious that a mislynch here is not going to end the game so claiming may not be necessary. In any case town who didn't have their bearings would exercise caution.

How is it hard to understand what I meant based on my claim? I have a confirmable role, and a role more powerful than even a cop. It would be analogous to the standard procedure of not lynching a claimed cop D1.

about your problems with the paragraph:
1 + 2) The paragraph does make sense, as does the conclusion. It's a train of conscience thought that leads me to believe that scum could not kill one of us today which means there would be no worry of sending any of us through a time gate. Secondly, even if it didn't make sense to you, that's not a quality that's scummy, so you pointing out what makes this "noticeable" to you is subversive.
3) As I said before this and explicitly later, it creates a paradox. And to answer your further probing, I believe paradoxes are like scum currency.

That last paragraph is a thing:

How can I be strongmanning a lynch if I hadn't yet said who I suspected, and furthermore, don't know who either of you would suspect if you were town. Your stipulation is utter nonsense.

[ActionDan]

That's it. I don't know why we started here, and I don't know what happens when we decide on a lynch. Nor do I see anything in the rules that gives any indication either way, which is why Dan's speculatoin posts in #8, #10, and #11 struck me so oddly--he says he's pulling that speculation from public information, but I'm not seeing it.

It's coming from the opening flavor in which we "found a safer way to send data back in time without using timegates... blah blah blah... data main frame is online"

[ActionDan]

As per your #16 PV, that's what I thought originally (that pairs of people referred to the day's lynch + NK), and that may still be the case if we go back to the past after today (which seems to be the only logical conclusion I can come up with that satisfies the opening flavor, this lylo situation, and the timeline rules).

O hey, I said it already

[ActionDan]

3) "Meanwhile Desp has shown some command of understanding the setup despite claiming ignorance (albeit strictly to what his role does)"
translation: This point really doesn't have any merit but I'm just gonna say it anyway.

I honestly missed AV's post saying we can't travel today. And I wasn't asking AV, I was asking you two.

I mentioned I was suspicious of his claim immediately, so for completeness I'll elaborate.

Knowledge that claim could produce is knowledge scum already have

. They produced the timeline, they know who dies when. So they'll know if someone is alive on a particular day or not. So it looks like a confirmable role but isn't really.

I don't understand what you're implying. That my claim is a scum fake claim?

Isn't the bolded...the entire purpose of having town PRs? To give town access to information that the scum already have?

Like, it reads like you're trying to discredit my claim as...unreasonable or unexpected within the context of the game? But then all you do is justify it's existence.

3) is important because you are dragging my role into your original accusation of me having to much knowledge of the setup even though my role affords me no such thing, and I never ever claimed as much.

Yes, I'm, implying that your claim is a good scum fake claim. And no, the purpose of town PRs is varied. Only investigative roles have a possibly of gleaning info the scum already have. And even then, town trackers + watchers + rolecops + etc. may find out more about the setup then the scum know (It's not like scum know everything, only who they are usually). What you claimed happens to be precisely encompassing knowledge scum know.

[ActionDan]

It sounds like you're saying that when you revive someone, you give the scum another paradox to use, which is convenient considering the town is likely never going to know how many paradoxes the Aliens have at their disposal or how they're used.

However, I could revive anyone lynched today, barring myself. This is something I would do immediately if the entity turns up town

This reads to me like you are trying to convince us that there's no reason not to give you the hammer between us, because if you choose wrong you can just revive them and no harm will be done. I find that very hard to believe, and given that you've had that knowledge all day, I don't understand why you haven't voted yet.

If you know you can't be wrong, why are you so hesitant?

I dunno. I figure it's more "convenient" for town that a dead townie gets to live again. You either turned your brain off or that's the worst scum-push I've seen.

Of course your next paragraph is just as bad. Why wouldn't I care as town to select correctly and "hesitate". It would save me the use of a revive for another time and immediately confirm both me and the other person as town.

[ActionDan]

I'm Doctor Tiberius Grant and I'm a reviver. I cannot help but think I have the strongest role in the game. If I revive a player, it comes with the cost of creating a paradox, but that's the only drawback.

So same scenario. You live past day1. Assume Platypus lynch and he flips town. Timeline stays the same.
Scum either kills SK using one paradox, or someone else using 2 paradoxes.
You can revive Platypus, but it creates a paradox.
.....
Day 1 assume lynch on not-SK or not-Platypus. That itself creates a paradox.
If town lynch, scum make new timeline.
You revive town, making another paradox.
If scum lynch with town hammer, town makes new timeline. You don't revive.

If either of you have clarifications based on how I think it works, please do so now.

All this seems reasonable and correct, but you have limited yourself largely to speculation even though we've both made at least 2 walls posts with content that you could comment on. It was annoying seeing that you could hammer for lack of posts when you hadn't bothered to make any ones of real content yourself.

Get on that

[AurorusVox]

@Avox- How many players can go through the Gate in a single day?

Not sure if I'm not getting an answer, or if it was missed.

@Dan- ???

I accidentally put the reply in the rules post (and deleted the rules post when I did it) - rules are back up and in answer to your question, one person at a time~

[PeregrineV]

Since I don't know where the game goes after this, recording this for prosperity.

@ActionDan-

My initial thought was Desparado, because, let's be frank, he claimed first post, and seemed to get what was going on (the lylo comment). You seemed to confirm the lylo thing in 8, and then give the partial claim (you are human).

But, then Desp. had no problem responding, and did point out that you seemed to have a better grasp on things (29).

And he had no problem responding to you (34) or to me (41, 48). I feel that type of engagement come more often from town.

After I finally get it, I do a reread. And 8 and 10 seem like you already know all the crap I figured out.

And 24 strikes me as town wanting to get the most information to make the right decision.

With that said:

Vote: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

nope I was a reviver.

[ActionDan]

It's fun now because town won't know who between you and Desp are scum when town could have used my revive the next day.

Anyway I changed my mind.

It's not easy at all to figure out which of the two of you is town

You lynched a reviver Day 1 with the reasoning of a cow.