Open 576: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Day 2)

[Teen Girl Squad]

UNVOTE: Astinus

My vote's on her for all intents and purposes, but I do agree with Mathdino that we should at least get a little bit of D1 discussion in before we lynch her.

@2birds1stone, why do you doubt Astinus is scum? She essentially said as much. What was wrong with Mathdino's unvote if you doubt Astinus is scum?

@NJAC, You've heard more from Astinus, do you think she's town or one of the scum at this point?

[Fink]

I don't want the day to end before some of the players have even checked in either, but I'm all for voting Astinus.

UNVOTE: Astinus
That puts it back to L-2 again.

I can't help but worry that we're missing something here. Although we have to lynch the claimed scum IMO, I think we shouldn't end the day

too

quick as that seems to be the one thing this accomplishes.

The fact that she didn't remove her self-vote even at L-1 implies she really does want to die...

This is so weird.

[Fink]

L-3, missed Teen Girl Squad's unvote.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.02:

Mastin2 - NJAC
Teen Girl - Clusk92
Astinus - Astinus, oilura, 2birds, Riabi (L-2)
Clusk92 - dragonspawn
dragonspawn - guille2015

Not Voting - mastin2, Nova, Riabi, Teen Girl, Fink

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and 6 to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-11-05 02:12:28) or by 1:00 AM on November 5th, 2014.

[Nova-Radiance]

Sorry, wanted to let some things unfold first.

That is the equivalent of a scum claim from Astinus, especially the beneficial part since he was hoping to bank on us trusting him more because of him throwing around votes.

Vote:Astinus

Teen Girl Squad's vote on dragonspawn and back, then switching again bothers me though.

[mastin2]

Yo!

My name's Mastin, and I'm going to be your IC for the--wait.
Wrong queue.

My mistake.

[mastin2]

On a more serious note, with the exception of a grand total of three players here, I don't recognize a single name among you. Now, for most scummers, that might seem insignificant. However, I'm Mastin. I'm a bit of a rock star among mafiascum.net. (Before the scum go eager to nightkill me, and/or the town gets to have unrealistically-high expectations of me, though, please note that rockstar simply means 'really well-known'. MS.net has a love-hate relationship with me and my quirks, about 50/50 split, even, and therefore I'm both famous and infamous, neither unjustifiably so. Overall, I'm only a mediocre player. But I digress.) What that means is that...well, between me and my alts, I have seen basically every big-name player around, so if I don't recognize your name *at all*, either you've been hanging around extensively in sections I haven't, or you're a relatively-new player. (To be fair, both are true, since I typically don't join opens except on request.)

What this is all leading up to is me asking about how much experience each player in the game has. Their past games, their general playstyle, what they expect, and whatnot. That way, we may be able to have some better understanding from the get-go. With that in mind, my internet was out all of yesterday, so that means I've got three pages to catch up on.

[mastin2]

(By the way, I've got to get my mind into multiball mode, too, so that's another reason I typically tell people who might have heard of me and set me on a pedestal to...please,

not

do that; I am fallible and quite frequently so as at least one or two OF the names which I recognize on the playerlist know. Granted, they know said failures from teaching, when I had my mental breakdown, butstill, I am prone to them. All that said......)

VOTE: Astinus
Because I want to.

Pretty sure this is town.

VOTE: clusk
cause anyone with a goatee like that has to be up to something

Actually dinosaurs punt teen girls.

VOTE: dragonspawn
Because uh excuse me teen girls are all about Cthulu these days jeez keep up with the times.

It's not much more than a gut feeling off of a hunch, but I feel these two may both be scum, on opposite factions.

[mastin2]

This claim makes no sense.

Which is why I'm pretty sure it comes from town.

By the way, on the wagon, Oilura is another name I'm highly-suspicious of.
In fact,

Vote: Oilura

.

[mastin2]

For the record: Fink is probably town, and Mathdino could go either way, but I lean more towards town than not-town.

So what I have is gut-feeling that dragonspawn is scum off, Oilura and Teen Girl Squad are scum on, Fink/Dino are town on, and the rest there's too little to be sure.

My guess at this point is that guile's town. I need to check Riabi's post a bit closer before I make a judgement there, and I go both ways on Nova but the decent analysis make me think more town than scum. I also need to give a think-over on 2birds. (NJAC I don't give a read on out of policy. We have

that

kind of history. Because for what it's worth, a snap-judgement right now would be more scum than town...AGAIN.)

[mastin2]

(And now you can see why there's the love-hate.

I promise there's explanations for basically all of these, but I'm choosing not to state them until everyone's posted some more.)

[2birds1stone]

@2birds1stone, why do you doubt Astinus is scum? She essentially said as much. What was wrong with Mathdino's unvote if you doubt Astinus is scum?

In my experience, the most anti-town play comes from town; scum are just too cautious to do certain things. Scum do not want to come into the game with a self-vote and keep that self-vote on even at L-1, and scum do not really want the attention of holding a self-vote. If I had to guess, I'd say this is some extremely misguided attempt at sparking discussion (and sure, it worked, but it's fucking WIFOM and liable to turn into a theory discussion).

The unvote struck me as a way of looking town without actually contributing to town. Outside of newbie games, it seems safe to say that nobody's going to derphammer a declared L-1; on top of that, the unvote only served to remove pressure from a player who really needed more of it. Finally, on the off-chance that Astinus is scum, Mathdino's unvote looks like it comes from a spooked buddy.

There's very much a part of me that wants Astinus policy-lynched.

What this is all leading up to is me asking about how much experience each player in the game has. Their past games, their general playstyle, what they expect, and whatnot.

This is my second game after coming back from year-and-a-half hiatus, had 18 games before that. I personally feel the only game representative of my current play is my most recent one, Mini 1606.

[2birds1stone]

HAHAHAHAHA I DON'T UNDERSTAND URL TAGS

Don't worry, I do!

[Mathdino]

Fun, first game with mastin and she sextuple-posts xD.

@mastin: Useful questions but I can't really answer many of them; haven't played that many games really. My wiki's kept updated, although I didn't feel like putting this game in because it was abandoned and mostly consists of me translating a post restriction and bickering with scum about setup. I want to make a rule not to self-meta anything recent (at least not in gameposts, so you can make what you will of my play. That said, I played my first 3 games like shit and that was over a year ago, so I think an ISO of Mini 1617 will give you a better impression.

I'm confused as to your read on Astinus. He literally said what he did may not be helpful to VTs, when that's the only town role in the game. Explain?

Oh, yeah, and can someone please get Astinus off L-1 on friggin page 3? Thanks.

[Oilura]

VOTE: Astinus
Because I want to.

Pretty sure this is town.

I know Astinus is very likely to be scum. How I arrive at this conclusion are explained by the following quotes by both our fellow players and myself:

UNVOTE: 2birds1stone
VOTE: Astinus[/unvote]

I want to hear an explanation.

What's with the self vote astinus? How does that help anyone?

I have my reason for doing this...

This is not sufficient.

I've read on the MafiaScum wiki that self-voting can help your game in certain circumstances, depending on your role. I feel that it would be beneficial to my game, so that is why I'm self-voting.

Assuming the wiki about this setup is correct, (was having trouble finding it earlier), this is the setup:

9 Townies
1 Mafia Amnesic Seer
1 Mafia Goon
1 Werewolf Amnesic Cop
1 Werewolf Goon


I'd like to here how self-voting is helpful for vanilla townies.

VOTE: Astinus

However, your post give me reasons for me to believe that you are somehow affiliated with him in-game. I want to know why self-voting is townish in a game where town consist of 9 townies (no power roles) from you.

I will UNVOTE: Astinus for the time being and VOTE: mastin2 for now to make sure you deliver a through explanation of your quote.

[Mathdino]

What in the world...
VOTE: Oilura
The simple act of townreading someone is not indicative of alignment. Why aren't you asking Astinus those questions instead of mastin? I really don't like how you're voting someone just so they answer a question. Also you're reeking of OMGUS.

Oh, yeah, and your votes need to be on a separate line.

[Oilura]

What in the world...
VOTE: Oilura
The simple act of townreading someone is not indicative of alignment. Why aren't you asking Astinus those questions instead of mastin? I really don't like how you're voting someone just so they answer a question. Also you're reeking of OMGUS.

Oh, yeah, and your votes need to be on a separate line.

#1: He just townread someone BECAUSE said someone self-voted. Are you serious?

#2: I voted him because of that particular read and his now wanting to reveal his reasons for voting someone.

I promise there's explanations for basically all of these, but

I'm choosing not to state them until everyone's posted some more.

)

His 'walk in and lolol this game means nothing compared to me lololol' attitude, ridiculous townread on Astinus and seemingly random votes/reads make him seem scummy to me.

[Oilura]

Oh, and I want to know why self-voting makes that person a confirmed townie. If anything, it makes him look scummy, especially in a no PR game.

[Oilura]

*town power role

[Mathdino]

Oilura, can you please unvote Astinus? This mod isn't counting votes/unvotes unless they're on separate lines.

You're misrepping hard. "confirmed town" isn't "pretty sure this is town".

Lemme ask you something: Do you really think Astinus's scumpartner would be dumb enough to out himself/herself on the 3rd page by being the only one to townread her? Second: Do you really think mastin would be able to stop an Astinus lynch by saying "Pretty sure this is town"? I'm not going to answer for her but put yourself in mastin's shoes for a sec.

[Oilura]

Oilura, can you please unvote Astinus? This mod isn't counting votes/unvotes unless they're on separate lines.

You're misrepping hard. "confirmed town" isn't "pretty sure this is town".

Lemme ask you something: Do you really think Astinus's scumpartner would be dumb enough to out himself/herself on the 3rd page by being the only one to townread her? Second: Do you really think mastin would be able to stop an Astinus lynch by saying "Pretty sure this is town"? I'm not going to answer for her but put yourself in mastin's shoes for a sec.

#1: Usually, that is a no, but this is mastin we are talking about. She admits to being slightly mentally ill, after all.
#2: No, but I think mastin thinks she is able to do so.

I have the feeling that mastin isn't completely sane and might be accidentally outing himself.

[Oilura]

Also, VOTE: mastin2

[Mathdino]

Dude, you just did it again... votes must be on separate lines...

And did you seriously just go after someone for their mental state...
I'm having difficulty not indirectly insulting you for that. That's literally the worst meta argument I've ever heard.

[Oilura]

Dude, you just did it again... votes must be on separate lines...

And did you seriously just go after someone for their mental state...
I'm having difficulty not indirectly insulting you for that. That's literally the worst meta argument I've ever heard.

MS.net has a love-hate relationship with me and

my quirks

, about 50/50 split, even, and therefore I'm both famous and infamous, neither unjustifiably so. Overall, I'm only a mediocre player. But I digress.)

I think one of his quirks are claiming that a scumbuddy performing a scummy action is townish.

Also, didn't I

VOTE: mastin2

[2birds1stone]

This game cannot be real, I... I have no idea what I'm reading.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oilura

I just finished a game where everyone I wagoned was bad as opposed to scum, and I'm a little worried because I'm getting those vibes again.

At the same time, I cannot ignore the blatant misrep and simply nonsensical argument with a hint of OMGUS.