Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Justin Timberlake]

Vote: Sixty

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• Sixty (2)
  : Cerulean Justin Timberlake
  
• N (1)
  : Thor665
  
• Not voting:
  Sixty PiggyGal15 JesseSheffield N Soul2277 absta101

Deadline: Fri 30 Nov, 21:22 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-11-30 21:22:00)

)

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Soul2277]

I skimmed them because I had a horrible headache and a lack of real time to sit in and do the reading and stated I was planning on reading them in much greater detail later (Probably sometime in the next few hours) but I said all that in Post 402 so this just comes across as you attempting to chip away de-crediting us by saying 'the meta is weak!' when I haven't even had a chance to go through it properly. And mentioning the links were so Empire could have a chance to read them too so we could actually talk about it properly rather than with less than full information.

It is weak. There's a difference between a small bit of good content and a small bit of just bad content. I still do want clarification on how I assert more as scum (last I checked I had 0 scum reads except for bussing until lylo in one of my scum games, was scum for two days in another and didn't really convince anyone and just played weak, and then open 443 which is the only one I could see I asserted somewhat even though I still got lynched day 1).

@Sixty in reference to how ceru suspected piggy but then when a game ended tammy was in read changed (and that unlike her not knowing alignment doesn't fit as a reason to push it). I just disagree with the remainder. If you have a town read it should be clearly stated and agreed upon.

JT, I'll let OS fight his war (you're honestly both being stubborn on something minor right now and are just distracting). I will say reads wise I gave them pretty clearly a while ago and only one that's split (and remains so until we're both online at the same time) is piggy.

Thor reasoning behind the vote? In your words I don't grok it.

Ceru either have tammy explain her read on me or you do for her.

As for sixty past applies. VOTE: Sixty

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

What do you think either of us are being stubborn about? (It's not the word I'd have used to describe the situation at all.)

Your words about us being scum belies that you somehow "know" for a fact that Sixty is scum. You are tryin to fucking tie us to a sinking ship hence all of your twisting of words.

Can you explain this, too? When you seem fairly sure Sixty is scum (Due to your instant vote) then why is Oversoul surprised I'm so vehment? It's also fairly clear I suspected you before the hammer so I don't see how 'I'm trying you to a sinking ship' makes sense. (Also doesn't the fact he called them a 'sinking ship' indeed show he also *thinks their scum*, thus accusing me of some sort of perspective slip is weird.

[PiggyGal15]

Kill the dogs man, they're evil and scummy.
VOTE: Sixty

[Soul2277]

I think fighting over semantics is you two being pretty stubborn (the root cause of this argument) nor was the yelling match worth much (especially when outside of that OS agreed with me on your slot). Already said I'll let OS deal with actual war on you (partly because I haven't talked to him since yesterday). If you want to ask a question that relies on that ask me after he shows up again or just to him. That and comment to my response on the meta would be nice.

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

I know nothing about your meta as I haven't researched it yet. You were talking to Regfan. Surely that can't be hard to work out. (Well I skimmed your ISO's and saw you were vote shy but he said it was something that happened regardless so w/e)

[Soul2277]

So is there a way for me to tell which of you is which (either sign or just some easy post style difference)?

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

You seriously can't tell who's who? Um. Regfan's the one posting all the walls? Duh?

[Soul2277]

Depends on the post. 503 felt more like reg and clearing that up helps a bit.

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

Holy shit. Yeah. Sorry. That post was far too serious for me. I'll try and tone it down a bit.

[Justin Timberlake]

Look what you guys have done, you've made Faraday actually post seriously, idiots. Now he'll think his opinion is worth something.

There's a fourth Townread there who isn't us and you know it (also @Thor 462). That's why I'm not particularly bothered about being lynched.

Yes, but the fact that Jesse wasn't in your original list and was actually in your list of 5 that you wanted 'bullets at' (Though I think that bullets list was more of a hate their play more than alignment thing) makes me think you didn't have a town-read or consider him originally and just threw him in later. Also let me make sure I understand you correctly. You saw us replace in, you saw we had a scum-read on you, you saw Empire pushing on you, you saw Empire create a big meta case on you, you saw Tammy put forward a big play based case on you and you were both online. And instead of posting anything replying to the cases or responding to them you decided 'We shall quickhammer Voided' with the mindset that anyone that isn't one of your 3-4 town-reads being hammered is fine and that you will be alive to prevent these town reads from being lynched? I don't believe that for a second, you'd have known quick-hammering like that would sign your death warrant especially given that none of this 'plan' was brought up or talked about in-thread before that.

It is weak. There's a difference between a small bit of good content and a small bit of just bad content. I still do want clarification on how I assert more as scum (last I checked I had 0 scum reads except for bussing until lylo in one of my scum games, was scum for two days in another and didn't really convince anyone and just played weak, and then open 443 which is the only one I could see I asserted somewhat even though I still got lynched day 1).

See. I don't even know what you're attempting to argue about (Yet you're someone saying that

we're

the ones being stubborn over something minor), I've stated twice that I haven't read fully into your meta and want to do it in depth and will explain everything I find about it when I do it in depth but you're continuing to try and call it 'weak' and 'bad content' when it's not even finished and that's something I've openly admitted.

[Soul2277]

You said I'm more assertive as scum. I said I think it's the exact opposite. My argument is the meta given so far is bad when it's that different from the meta I understand myself to have (I'm not arguing lack of meta reasoning I'm arguing how I think reasoning given so far is wrong).

And there's a small difference in OS starting to argue over semantics and arguing over an fos on me because of meta.

~Mehdi

[N]

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Absta's didn't-read-the-rules-properly towntell attempt on the last page looks way too over the top, so for the moment, he can be the third scum we've been looking for. (The other two being Piggy and Sixty, of course.) I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

[Soul2277]

Do you think sixty would give obvious clues to their buddies after being suspected this much?

~Mehdi

[Thor665]

Thor reasoning behind the vote? In your words I don't grok it.

Am I allowed to just say 'beard' again?
You should sheep me though.

I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

[Cerulean]

(Tammy was obvtown anyway. She's much more bitchy as town)

Thanks man.

[Soul2277]

You can thor. I just don't find it a reason to sheep you here especially when compared to sixty.

~Mehdi

[Thor665]

So 513 looks awesome to you?

[JesseSheffield]

This game needs four Townies to be broken. As long as these Townies aren't lynched, we win. We have these four Townies already: Cerulean, absta, Thor and us.

Okay I saw this yesterday when I was desperately trying to catch up and post before having to pack up and go but I've been mulling on it ever since and this just comes across as terrible to me. I understand the idea... and it makes sense... but looking at my word document for this thread Sixty just listed #5, 7, and 8 on my list of most town-least town. Along with my #1. I would assume here that if Sixty were scum they listed on of their buddies, who they thought was the most overt pro-town player in the game, and another filler to look like this is a pro-town idea. And I don’t necessarily think it would be in a town player’s best interest to pull that on twilight 1. Either way I am almost certain with these four players left in the game that is a town loss.

If we are lynched, so be it--add Jesse to the list of people that must not be lynched (absta, Cerulean, Jesse, Thor), and flip the rest.

However the addition of this makes me just lean scum on Sixty because that adds a player who the majority of the town seemingly has a town read on. So I don’t see how that would be in the best interest of scum to keep me in the game so long. That might’ve just been a good save though after the fact.

I don't even remember anything Voided has done. But then again, I haven't been paying the best attention to this game. Right now, the only things I can remember are that Piggy did some really scummy shit early game (I can't remember anything she's done since, though, so I guess that's how she's slipped others' suspicions?), Sixty has made some horrible cases (seriously, the last time I saw a case that bad was by a cop who had a guilty result but didn't want to claim their role), Mehdi/blue-avatar/Thor had a big argument with lots of walls (I skimmed most of it), and there's too many damn hydras running around (and I can't keep them straight). Oh, and Justin Timberlake replaced in and made

more

fucking walls.

So, from the small amount of information I managed to retain, let's lynch Piggy and Sixty and the third partner can do whatever they're currently doing and it doesn't matter.

I hate this entire post. Not a single bit of it comes off as anything a pro-town player would say. This is exactly the type of wishy-washy, brooding gameplay I find scummy.

The hammer was very much not-random, though.

Vi gets so few chances to trollhammer.

We have our set of Townreads, we don't need the rest.

I’m really interested in knowing how coasting on that would get the town far through the game.

Also just in general every emotional outburst coming out of Soul seems forced and fake to me. Exactly the type of textrage I would expect from a scum player acting as outraged town. I mean its not even a clever attempt to shadow. And I don’t understand all that crap about snapping at someone badgering you when you haven’t read the thread... I mean who’s fault is that....

I want an answer to

that

, and if not, why. Do you think absta, Thor, Jesse are all Town?

This is really fun fishing. I think that would be amazing information for scum if Cerulean were a town player.

I know you added Jesse...but if he's worth adding so it's o'tay you are lynched, then why not mention him first time through?

Wait. Love this. But also hate when I’m reading through a thread and responding real time. Kind of confused why no one else thought that was pretty damning though. Wait just kidding thank you JT.

I wouldn’t mind hammering Sixty but right now I’d rather

Vote: N

I don't understand the argument between Soul and Justin, so I'm going to ignore it. I don't have a scumread on either of you, so I think it might be two townies arguing while the mafia sit back and do nothing.

Absta's didn't-read-the-rules-properly towntell attempt on the last page looks way too over the top, so for the moment, he can be the third scum we've been looking for. (The other two being Piggy and Sixty, of course.) I was starting to think the third could be Thor, because he hadn't called me scummy yet (he always seems to - okay, in the two completed games we have together he did), but he just voted for me so that's all okay.

I'd hammer Sixty, but I want them to come in and make some more incriminating posts and hopefully out their buddies for real.

None of this is real. I feel like I can just post any of N’s posts with a disclaimer “None of this is real.” I mean come on
1. The argument isn’t hard to understand and shouldn’t be ignored.
2. The quip about both being town reads is ridiculous I don’t even understand how someone could possibly have both Soul and JT as town reads.
3. absta’s general accidental lackadaisical play reads 100% town to me. And wait who are the other two scum? Cases please (and don’t pretend like you’ve already posted them).
4. Come on, you could go a million directions with a case on Thor and you’re not even going to attempt it mainly because you know it’ll either a) get blasted apart or b) he’s your scum partner.
5. Dooon’t even pretend like you care about anything Sixty has to say and if they’re as smart as I’m going to assume they are they wouldn’t out any of their buddies.

[Thor665]

or b) he’s your scum partner.

[JesseSheffield]

I mean there were two options. If you don't like one of them pick the other.

[Cerulean]

Thor - Their plan may be similar in essence to the reversed mafia game breaking strategy but that doesn't mean they're town here. That strategy is not only logical and alignment independent but could have easily been discussed before they got their role pm.

Thing is there is no way, no how they are town here. Town puppies would know that we have three mislynches and that's all. Town puppies would have been more careful than to hammer voidedmafia the way they did and then display their "plan" and then act like they're fine with being lynched because they don't want to be a "distraction." That would be two mislynches down, which would mean that there is only one more. I have an immense amount of trouble accepting town either Vi or Tierce being okay with this with the stakes being so high. That is not the Tierce who in the Chrono Trigger dead qt said that as town you never accept your lynch because you're the only confirmed town you know. This is nothing like the town Tierce who gained suspicion wrongly in mafia behind the maiden and argued against it. The distraction avenue is horseshit as well. I can to a certain extent understand the mindset as in Leprachaun mafia I practically insisted on being lynched before LyLo as I thought my being alive would make town lose (I took a similar position in experimental at the end), but I'm not seeing even a glimmer of the mindset I had in their case about being a "distraction" when the fact is if they were town, they'd be answering the case against them with more "oomph" maybe a little righteous indignation about their alignment, which they're not.

Their play makes way more sense for scum!puppies. They saw an easy mislynch and took it, knowing that we'd only have two more. They saw cases being built against them and rather than take a day one lynch helped along a mislynch. They had to know that there was no guarantee voided would be lynched on day two and acted accordingly, essentially trading one for one when they knew they were doomed anyway.

I find it really strange that they are calling us the competent players who will purge the scum after their death while we've been the one pushing for their lynch the most. That makes no sense whatsoever if they're town here, not to assert that we're wrong about them, and will somehow wake up and be right about the rest of the game and if we were wrong they'd want even more to stay alive and make sure town won. If they were town, but they're not. The only aspect of the case against them was Tierce addressing the meta case and that was just to say that the interpretation of her meta was wrong, which can be done as either alignment and nothing that pertains to this game was addressed, except for a really minor point in the way they treated piggy.

If by some strange miracle, they flip town, I'll look at their plan. But that's such a minor likelihood that it's almost zilch.

N - I doubt very seriously that either of those players are going to drop tells for who their partners are. Neither one of those players are incompetent, and knowing that they're going to be lynched are going to be trying to spread whatever misinformation they can, if they actually take the time out to do much of anything.

Soul - I don't really have a great description for you for why I suspect you. Do you always ask for people to explain their potential scum reads on you? Other head and regfan will do meta analysis on you guys I'm sure, but where I'm coming from is just a difference in feeling I get from Oversoul. The reaction to the hammer felt fake. The reaction to Faraday feels like an attempt to fake town irritation. I mean, I get it, I've gone round and round with Faraday before so I know what it feels like, but he wasn't really all that antagonistic to you so the reaction read off with regards to the amount of instigation I saw (although calling you an idiot wasn't cool). Oversoul, even in his few moments here and there, hasn't felt engaged at all. And, I would expect him to interact a bit. His throwback to the piggy meta felt odd. He said he hadn't finished re-reading, though he said that Sixty had literally mentioned voided once after the hammer which would tell me that he has been reading. There's been little direct interaction with anyone from Oversoul, which I would expect from him as town. I would also expect a bit more paranoia when it comes to dealing with Tierce, and I'm not getting any of that (to be fair this is a bad expectation, he was paranoid as fuck over Tierce in mafia behind the maiden so that's what I'm going with). I just don't even see a glimpse of his town play.

~Tammy

[Thor665]

I mean there were two options. If you don't like one of them pick the other.

Explain how it makes any sense at all - I'm probably just being dumb.

[Cerulean]

Thor reasoning behind the vote? In your words I don't grok it.

Am I allowed to just say 'beard' again?
You should sheep me though.

If I say beard, will you just sheep me? My blue blood burns for a scum lynch, and we're one away from making that happen. So say we all?