This is a sensible explanation for why I'm feeling bad about you currentlyIn post 465, GuyInFreezer wrote: For some reason this game is hard to get into for me.
Multiple attempts of reading back all went "do I really want to do this rn"
I will attempt again tomorrow.
I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiwIn post 472, Thestatusquo wrote: This doesn't feel like a town anxiety ig.
Like i feel like a town mindset would be it's early so I'll just throw what i think out there and if it's underformed or not explained well that's fine.
It feels like a scum mindset to worry about whether ones reads are good enough or justified well enough.
Do you have examples of other games where you didn't post reads because you didn't really have time to explain them?
I think your early approach to this game feels natural and not really influenced at all by a potential scumteam. You're focusing on things in an open carefree way that I think you'd be hesitant to focus on as scum.In post 482, DragonEater70 wrote: Also Klick, your readlist is so interesting to me. Why am I in first place? And why is GiF so low?
Other people calling you limbait is not mutually exclusive to you using that as an excuse for your actions / an attempt to minimize any votes against you.In post 483, DragonEater70 wrote:Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.In post 381, kuribo wrote: Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there
vote: Dragon
Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh
Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you
well I don't play that much and I have a goldfish memory but you can see me playing like that in every one of my town games unless if I'm busy or something. I ask a lot, specially about what people meant. I throw fos if I think it'll help me get more info and I compare all info from same slot to see if its inconsistency with their own mindset or a town mindset or not.In post 496, Klick wrote:I have to go to work in a minute, but two quick questions:In post 491, Frozen Angel wrote:vla actually means I cant check and post in game so don't prod me but fair enough.In post 431, Klick wrote:NoIn post 352, Frozen Angel wrote:did you came out of vla just to drop this read? does this mean you're caught up?In post 251, Klick wrote: Firebringer town
If you'd genuinely like an explanation, I've been at Eastermeet this weekend - literally on vacation with low access. I'm excited for this game and am eager to play, but I have been spending most of my time focusing on the meet I was at. There were a couple of points during the meet when I had some down time, in which I decided to check in on this on my phone with poor data reception. To be clear, V/LA does not mean 'you're either here or you're not'.In post 353, Frozen Angel wrote:yeah this doesn't feel right you're either here or you're not. whats the point of reminding the v/la if you're dropping reads and responding? just to not take heat and steer stuff?In post 257, Klick wrote: Hello Feysal! You seem like an interesting player and I'm looking forward to playing with you
I've not read particularly carefully up to this point as I'm still on V/LA, but is there anyone so far that has made you feel that they are particularly likely to be town?
PEdit: I've given a few and I'm catching up on the rest now
Because I'm no longer V/LA :O
I don't like to self meta but since you brought it up here it goesIn post 442, Klick wrote:It's not a very strongly formed thoughtIn post 433, Titus wrote:Go on please.In post 432, Klick wrote: From where I'm at right now FA feels very similar to Cosmos where she was scum though
But the basic idea is that in Cosmos I felt likeFA's approach was largely to question other people's takes as a means to develop her own view of the game and make it look genuine
It's different from a town approach in terms of motive for posting; the whole point of what FA was doing in Cosmos felt like it was to look town through having considered and nuanced takes that were developed by sort of hijacking other players' genuine thoughts and critiquing them
And here it feels very similar, I feel like almost everything FA has done has been a critique of another original perspective with only a couple of reads originating from something she has brought up herself
It all fits under this umbrella idea of 'I think FA wants to look town right now rather than actually doing town things'
I ask a lot of questions to find a thought process error in what people say at different times. Someone is portraying they feel like this about something at some point, when asked in 3 different manners about it they say something that has a conflict with what they portrayed first = they were faking that initial though and they don't own it.
if you find a conflicting pattern of thought process you caught scum.
Whose reads are you accusing me of copying here exactly? I don't think anyone else was pushing you for vla (actually drixx wrote a line for that too that I remember) and not vla, or sorted the 3 way of dun FB freysel like me upon that skim?
so why dropping that I'm copying people read without actually saying who and what you think I'm copying to "look genuine"?
also it was a catch up so its pretty much copying what everyone else was saying/asking them questions about them and some raw ideas I had on top of my head while skimming it
Can you give me an link or two of times you successfully found scum with this technique?
Can you give me an example or two of times you thought you caught scum with this technique, but were wrong?
I want to chime in and say I share this anxiety too, but mine actually does come from not wanting to seem scummy. Yes, town worries about seeming scummy too and idk where the perception comes from that they don'tIn post 501, Klick wrote: I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiw
It comes more from a place of feeling like I'll be ignored if I don't present my most pressing thoughts appropriately/just trying to find the most effective time and means of saying what I want to say
I really want this btw, when you're back. 100% seriousIn post 494, Frozen Angel wrote:Why was klick scum leaning me? explain their "case" in your own words pleaseIn post 480, DragonEater70 wrote: So I am actually going to say Klick is a townlean of mine (and I was also convinced by their case that FA is scummy here).
I feel way more comfortable as scum than as town when being pressured, but I'd say that Klick nailed what I feel this time.In post 506, Black wrote:I want to chime in and say I share this anxiety too, but mine actually does come from not wanting to seem scummy. Yes, town worries about seeming scummy too and idk where the perception comes from that they don'tIn post 501, Klick wrote: I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiw
It comes more from a place of feeling like I'll be ignored if I don't present my most pressing thoughts appropriately/just trying to find the most effective time and means of saying what I want to say
Do you think you have this mindset early game because it doesn't really jive with what I've seen you doing in this game so far? Like I see you just throwing out thoughts like "x is town!" as you go as a way of being present and to me that is what I expect town to be doing in the extreme early game.In post 501, Klick wrote:I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiwIn post 472, Thestatusquo wrote: This doesn't feel like a town anxiety ig.
Like i feel like a town mindset would be it's early so I'll just throw what i think out there and if it's underformed or not explained well that's fine.
It feels like a scum mindset to worry about whether ones reads are good enough or justified well enough.
Do you have examples of other games where you didn't post reads because you didn't really have time to explain them?
It comes more from a place of feeling like I'll be ignored if I don't present my most pressing thoughts appropriately/just trying to find the most effective time and means of saying what I want to say
I kinda liked that reaction from dragon tbh. It felt idk pretty genuine to like see my post not as an attack but rather as a suggestion and start down the path of looking through klicks posts.In post 504, kuribo wrote:Other people calling you limbait is not mutually exclusive to you using that as an excuse for your actions / an attempt to minimize any votes against you.In post 483, DragonEater70 wrote:Read my completed games - I've been called limbait several times on D1, different games.In post 381, kuribo wrote: Ugh god I really don't like dragon's response there
vote: Dragon
Not to reiterate the things that Shea just said, but I do agree with him on this. You never once questioned four people calling you town seemingly with no good reason. And then calling yourself limbait, ehhhhhhh
Just feels like a way to preliminary poo-poo a wagon on you
And for that matter, only after being repeatedly called out for it have you finally decided to analyze the people who were calling you town at an extremely early point in the game.
In the early game yes. I'm going to poke and attack and shake the tree and see what falls out.In post 503, BlueSnakelet wrote:Spoiler: Game from #466 to #476
I strongly dislike Thestatusquo's throughout this whole interaction. It felt like he wanted to leave this interaction with a scumread from the start. @Thestatusquo, are you usually this impatient as town?
ENDVOTE: THE STATUS QUO!
And, specifically, the thing you didn't like is Pink Ball holding on to his thoughts?In post 513, Thestatusquo wrote:In the early game yes. I'm going to poke and attack and shake the tree and see what falls out.In post 503, BlueSnakelet wrote:Spoiler: Game from #466 to #476
I strongly dislike Thestatusquo's throughout this whole interaction. It felt like he wanted to leave this interaction with a scumread from the start. @Thestatusquo, are you usually this impatient as town?
ENDVOTE: THE STATUS QUO!
In this case I didn't like what fell out. Contrast that with dragon who I felt I had a very similar interaction with and in fact did like what fell out.
Or titus.
Firebringer is known for his trolling. When I saw that, my thought was pretty much "Ugh, is he actually scum and trolling us right now?" I did not actually know he liked playing as scum, only that he was capable of being bold when he was.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote: So why did you not like him stating he hated not ranging mafia if you think it's truthful?
Just to be clear, you're asking me to provide meta on myself? One of the first lessons I learned on this site is that self-meta is fraught with peril. I have never lied about it, but have still gotten in trouble for it, because meta is often a matter of opinion and subjective.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote: Do you usually mech spec and try to break setups right at start of games?
You want to know? I'll tell you why.In post 489, Frozen Angel wrote: Like I can't be the only one who thinks that doesn't look like a genuine thought process. Why would they start mech specing assuming scum doesn't have fake claim and setup is breakable as town?
In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.In post 1, T-Bone wrote: At Dawn, members of the town will receive their Amnesiac Role. There are a number of roles in rotation that will be randomly distributed each Dawn Phase. That means that even dead players will be assigned Amnesiac Roles at Dawn. (Though they will not be PMed, since they are dead) The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.
Firebringer spent all of the last game we played together trying to get me to scum read him and telling me that he won the game if I scum read him.In post 516, Feysal wrote:Firebringer is known for his trolling. When I saw that, my thought was pretty much "Ugh, is he actually scum and trolling us right now?" I did not actually know he liked playing as scum, only that he was capable of being bold when he was.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote: So why did you not like him stating he hated not ranging mafia if you think it's truthful?
I did go back for another look, and on second reading it does not seem like taunting the town. Saying he did not get the role he wanted was more an offhand remark while talking about his role play, and he did not come out and say he was unhappy about not being scum until Dunnstral confronted him about it.
Just to be clear, you're asking me to provide meta on myself? One of the first lessons I learned on this site is that self-meta is fraught with peril. I have never lied about it, but have still gotten in trouble for it, because meta is often a matter of opinion and subjective.In post 485, Frozen Angel wrote: Do you usually mech spec and try to break setups right at start of games?
With that out of the way, the short answer is I don't know. I have done something like that before, maybe at the start or later in game, but I don't remember all my games and I can't say how common it is. I also don't think it is worth delving deep into years old meta, so I'm just going to point you to three posts in three games as three alignments which I think are relevant, and give you a little context. Make of that what you will.
Spoiler: Self meta, aka rambling about the good old days
You want to know? I'll tell you why.In post 489, Frozen Angel wrote: Like I can't be the only one who thinks that doesn't look like a genuine thought process. Why would they start mech specing assuming scum doesn't have fake claim and setup is breakable as town?
In this game, scum do not have fake claims. They get real roles assigned to them from the same pool as town every morning. It says here that the roles are not granted to them though, and that left it ambiguous in my mind whether they would even be told what they were. I could just about imagine a game where scum would need to keep track of which roles town had claimed during previous days, maybe even making up a fake claim and pretending it had been assigned to a dead player on the days they did not claim it themselves. Getting ahead of that might have been beneficial, but as already stated, it does not work.In post 1, T-Bone wrote: At Dawn, members of the town will receive their Amnesiac Role. There are a number of roles in rotation that will be randomly distributed each Dawn Phase. That means that even dead players will be assigned Amnesiac Roles at Dawn. (Though they will not be PMed, since they are dead) The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.
Why are my reads not good enough? If it's because the positions aren't solid enough then you're going to have to deal with it because I'm rarely going to be confident enough in my reads to take solid stances in the first 24 hours of a game. If it's because you don't agree with the reads then we can discuss why and figure out where the disconnect isIn post 425, Titus wrote: Reads. Solid positions, like the last few times I have asked.
I had very similar thoughts at the beginning of Hollow Knight. It was my first game playing with FB and he claimed scum at the beginning. I thought he was doing it for the epic postgame bragging rights if he ended up winning but nope, he was just that bold as TownIn post 516, Feysal wrote: Firebringer is known for his trolling. When I saw that, my thought was pretty much "Ugh, is he actually scum and trolling us right now?" I did not actually know he liked playing as scum, only that he was capable of being bold when he was.
Would it be weird to ask Bella to explain this read? I just did a quick ISO and I'm not seeing itIn post 500, Klick wrote: Bella has you as her strongest townread
I think I somehow overlooked this. I didn't see #198 so that's my bad. With that in mind your post feels less like an overreaction tbhIn post 426, BlueSnakelet wrote:Dunnstral said in 198, which I also quoted, that they thought I was Mafia citing 75.In post 358, Black wrote: I want more from Pink Ball and Blue
PB seems like they are saying stuff without saying anything, and Blue's reaction to Dunn in 262 feels a bit defensive. I'm not a fan of him interpreting Dunn's 75 as a scumread when all Dunn says is Blue seems awkward and he's not sure where Blue is coming from
VOTE: Blue aka the inferior color
(Of course, this was before they recanted the scumread in 271
Gun to your head is me v blue snakelet svs tvs or tvtIn post 519, Black wrote:Why are my reads not good enough? If it's because the positions aren't solid enough then you're going to have to deal with it because I'm rarely going to be confident enough in my reads to take solid stances in the first 24 hours of a game. If it's because you don't agree with the reads then we can discuss why and figure out where the disconnect isIn post 425, Titus wrote: Reads. Solid positions, like the last few times I have asked.
Here are my most solid positions even though I wouldn't trust myself standing on these:
Dunn is probably my top TR. Originally I was a little skeptical of his entrance but I think his responses to pressure have been really good
Fey was also someone I was unsure about early because the way they danced around the massclaim and the slight overreaction to FB voting for Dunn. However I think Fey vs. FB looks a little TvT looking back over it and I lean town on them
Which means I also lean town on FB
I think Dragon has been pretty townie too. Add my name to the list
I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target
I lean town with Klick. I think his posting always gives me town vibes though so I'm cautious here
I'm not sure how I feel about Shea or Titus
I need to read over kuribo, GiF, and Drixx because I can't recall anything off the top of my head about these slots
I think Pink Ball and Blue are the two players that are the scummiest to me atm. These are weak reads but I don't like what I've seen from them so far
