Micro 11: Mostly Normal Micro (Day 4)

[borkjerfkin]

You called me scummy for swapping reads on you, and yet you did the exact same thing!!!

I did not do the exact same thing and I explained why. Shouting it again while ignoring my counterargument does not make it so.

Changing reads when somebody becomes confirmed town.

You did not do this -- Godot was never confirmed town. I did this, as Ree IS confirmed town.

BORK HAD NO TOWN READS D-4!!!

There was no way I was lynching you, and I was leaning against lynching Ree. You wanna get into semantics that I didn't call Ree town? Weak.

Also, if I'm scum with Lucky, then why did I come out of the gate and vote for him? And keep my vote on him even when a bunch of other people were calling my vote weak and saying that lucky was town?

Are you really trying to argue that scum don't ever distance in the early game? Especially when it becomes very obvious that no one's going for that lynch and therefore you don't have to bus?

Your calling me scum for changing my playstyle today, when today you have posted infinitely more than throughout the rest of the game.

Your D1 and D2 play was reasonable, but you basically were a non-entity D3 because you had no pressure on you and it looked like I might be a probable lynch target -- optimal scum play there is not to rock the boat.

I'll concede the D4 issue, your only hope now really IS to do what you're doing.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I did not do the exact same thing and I explained why. Shouting it again while ignoring my counterargument does not make it so.

Now that's pure semantics.

There was no way I was lynching you, and I was leaning against lynching Ree. You wanna get into semantics that I didn't call Ree town? Weak.

Please quote where you said that my lynch was off the table. And also, back on the last day when I voted for you and kept my vote on you forever, shouldn't you have thought I was scum if you were town? If you really are town, then you should have thought "man, scum hasn't tried to quickhammer, so Bub's scum since I'm town." But no, I was off the table. And also, how does "I think Ree is scummy" translate to "I was leaning against lynching Ree"?

Are you really trying to argue that scum don't ever distance in the early game? Especially when it becomes very obvious that no one's going for that lynch and therefore you don't have to bus?

Are you really trying to argue that scum would come out of the gate D-1, vote their

only

scumbud, and keep the vote on that scumbud despite being called scummy for said vote?

Your D1 and D2 play was reasonable, but you basically were a non-entity D3 because you had no pressure on you and it looked like I might be a probable lynch target -- optimal scum play there is not to rock the boat.

I'll concede the D4 issue, your only hope now really IS to do what you're doing.

So concede that you were being hypocritical when you called me scummy for changing my playstyle in a 3-person LYLO?

[Bub Bidderskins]

So concede that you were being hypocritical when you called me scummy for changing my playstyle in a 3-person LYLO?

Messed this up. Should have read:

So you concede that you were being hypocritical when you called me scummy for changing my playstyle in a 3-person LYLO?

[borkjerfkin]

Now that's pure semantics.

This makes no sense to me. The motivations for changing my reads were far different than the motivations you gave for changing yours (you've still not addressed this). That's not semantics at all.

Please quote where you said that my lynch was off the table. And also, back on the last day when I voted for you and kept my vote on you forever, shouldn't you have thought I was scum if you were town? If you really are town, then you should have thought "man, scum hasn't tried to quickhammer, so Bub's scum since I'm town." But no, I was off the table.

I'm just going to respond to that with a previous quote:

If [Bub] is town,

and my gut is still saying he is

, then the scumteam just has no stones and don't think they can coordinate a quickhammer before Bub gets back and busts them. This probably means Lucky is on the scumteam, since he's much less consistently around than either Godot or especially Ree.

Underlined is where I say you're off the table.
As for the latter part of your statement, and I've already explained this yesterday -- I thought Lucky was on the scumteam and his inherent flakiness made it impossible for Lucky and his not-you partner to get a quickhammer going. Whereas you, in reality, just plopped the vote down since you knew that Lucky was unreliable for a quickhammer and hoped that you'd get one of them to buy in -- and they almost did.

And also, how does "I think Ree is scummy" translate to "I was leaning against lynching Ree"?

I'm not going to requote where I said I found Lucky and Godot more scummy than Ree; you know damn well where it is. You seem to want to suggest that the fact that I didn't have two separate definite town and definite scum buckets at all times to be some sort of scum indicator, when it's actually the opposite due to the guesswork that town has to do -- I'm not trying to pigeonhole people into groups despite my reads. If I think three people are acting scummy, I need to be willing just to lynch the top two of those people. If I'd have jumped on a Ree wagon after making that post and later said "Look I said he was scummy!" you'd have a point. I didn't and you don't.

On the other hand, you were looking ahead to today already and didn't have to guess to see what your optimal play was -- I was your best shot at a mislynch for D3 after Ree FoS'ed me, and if that failed, you'd look good after your backup-bus.

Are you really trying to argue that scum would come out of the gate D-1, vote their

only

scumbud, and keep the vote on that scumbud despite being called scummy for said vote?

Considering that you'd have looked worse if you backed down there, I am absolutely trying to argue that, yes.

So [you] concede that you were being hypocritical when you called me scummy for changing my playstyle in a 3-person LYLO?

Uh, no, I'm conceding that I was wrong to postulate that a sharp increase in activity when you're the only one left on your team is scummy -- it's actually null since inaction here basically loses you the game as either alignment. Nice misrep though.

[Mr_Ree]

Lol, so this is fun right? I've already chosen who I want to lynch. Don't let me interrupt your arguement though. I'm rather enjoying this.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Lol, so this is fun right? I've already chosen who I want to lynch. Don't let me interrupt your arguement though. I'm rather enjoying this.

[Mr_Ree]

Haha ikr? Bork screwed up pretty hard on day 3. He really could have made things harder on me by believing my claim as you did.

Final thoughts Bork?

[borkjerfkin]

I like mushrooms

[Mr_Ree]

Lol. You two done? Are you ready yet?

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

yeah i'm not gonna bother rehosting that

[Mr_Ree]

Dude, you're making this too easy. Resist or something. Put some fight into it man!

[borkjerfkin]

Ive been pretty forthcoming about bub's moonlogic.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Dude, you're making this too easy. Resist or something. Put some fight into it man!

[/quote]
[/quote]

[Mr_Ree]

Vote Bork

Sorry all if I got this wrong. I'm 70% sure I didn't but considering who is left, the fact that everyone has been calling bub town and lastly, Bork's reaction, I couldn't have gone any other way.

[borkjerfkin]

Nah you did good. i was on borrowed time.

[Bub Bidderskins]

GG

[DCLXVI]

Final Vote Count

With three living players it takes two votes to lynch.

(2)

Borkjerfkin

: Bub Bidderskins, Mr_Ree
(1)

Bub Bidderskins

: Borkjerfkins

Borkjerfkin, one-shot mafia janitor, was lynched day 4.

The town has won.

===================================

Role list:

Luckjt: Mafia Goon
Borkjerkin: One-shot Mafia Janitor

Mr_Ree: Friendly Neighbor
Medhi: Jailor

Salamance: VT
Bub Bidderskins: VT
johhog/doubldJD: VT
ProsecutorGodot: VT
Zabriel: VT

Night Actions:

Night One

Borkjerfkin targets medhi for kill
Medhi jails Mr_Ree
Mr_Ree targets Godot

Night Two
Borkjerfkin targets zabriel for janitorizing and killing.
Mr_Ree targets zabriel

Night Three
Borkjerfkin targets ProsecutorGodot
Mr_Ree targets Borkjerfkin

========================

Some thoughts about the setup.

One of the things I wanted to do with the game is to fix some of the problems with lylo and potentially make it a lot more interesting.

On the mafia side of things with the Janitor the town won't have as clear of an idea as to how many PRs are in the game making that type of fakeclaim more viable.

For the town with the friendly neighbor it gives town a little bit more direction at the end and makes the situation come out to about 50-50 if that role makes it to the end.

I put the jailer in to potentially weaken either the Friendly Neighbor or the janitor.

The game did have the potential to be very swingy but I would think that is fairly normal for a small setup.

----
With that said, what were your thoughts on the setup?

[Bub Bidderskins]

I thought it was a pretty good game overall. Sorry about not posting as much as I should, I've been really busy these passed few weeks.

[Mr_Ree]

Great game everyone. I still thought bub was scummy going into day 4. If not for the little gamble I did saying I was planning on voting Bork, I never would have known.

Gg

[borkjerfkin]

Watch me gradually figure that out in the mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/uhQufYf9WF5

[borkjerfkin]

This wasn't a bad setup at all -- I kinda like it. Everything was going our way until that claim and that really threw me off my shit.

Here's the post that really should've won the game for us:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4312814

I should've realized you were a PR from that and at least forced a claim from you. My play really deteriorated at the end of D2 just due to both entering too many games and having my free time go away on me.

[borkjerfkin]

On the mafia side of things with the Janitor the town won't have as clear of an idea as to how many PRs are in the game making that type of fakeclaim more viable.

I think the problem with that is that I also had no idea what Zabriel was when I killed him, so the only thing I could really use the janitor for is to weaken Ree's claim. No one really paid attention to it, though. I think the obscurity of Ree's role really helped cement it as a true claim.

[Mr_Ree]

Yeah my claim came at the perfect time. Sorry for the reaction test. Glad it worked.

[borkjerfkin]

Also this was a very enjoyable game for me because no one was a huge raging asshole during it like most every other game I've played here.