Favorite Video Game Tournament (Pokémon Wins! + Condorcet)

[PranaDevil]

Match 57:
Portal

Match 58:
Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings

Match 59:
Super Mario 64

Match 60:
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Bonus Match 1: Vote for up to two.
RollerCoaster Tycoon
Super Mario Bros. 3

Bonus Match 2:
Pac-Man

I wonder.. do people think Super Mario 64 is the best mario game or is it the one to make it this far due to the matchups? Cuz I kinda feel like 3 and world were better than 64 but that is just my opinion. Same with the pokemons/zeldas/etc, did the bests of the series make it this far?

3 is far and away the best Mario game (Though World comes a close second). I actually felt 64 was a nice way to show off the N64, but really it's a very mediocre platformer, and I find Sonic's first outing in 3D (Not that god-awful Sonic 3D shite that wasn't 3D), to be a much better game overall, and much more entertaining to return to.

Breaking them up by generation might make sense, yes. (Actually, if I had done that, I probably would have just done the same with the other series; combining Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, or Final Fantasy VII-IX into a single entry wouldn't be all that crazy.)

It would have been completely crazy. I can accept the WWE Raw vs Smackdown series has basically not changed for a lifetime. But to even suggest FFVII and FFVIII are the same game with slight changes is... ridiculous to be quite honest. Plus then you would have Sonic Adventure being dragged down by all the other guff that came out afterwards, Mario 1, 2 and 3 all being grouped as the "same" game, despite all the changes.

It would be like saying Snap and Poker are the same game as they both use cards... or hell, if you want to even try being more accurate, it's like saying 5 Card Draw and Omaha are the same game as they're "still poker". (Although anyone out there who does think that, I'll play you heads up anytime)

[Xalxe]

How many times have you guys beaten Portal 1?

Like, several?

[Hiraki]

Portal might actually beat Tetris?

I'm going to sincerely answer this question:

How many times have you guys beaten Portal 1?

How many times have you beaten Tetris?

Not my point.

[Mr. Flay]

Round 4:

Match 57:
Tetris

Match 58:
Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings

Match 59:
Super Mario 64

Match 60:
PASS

Bonus Match 1: Vote for up to two.
Sid Meier's Civilization II
Super Mario Bros. 3

Bonus Match 2:
Frogger

[quadz08]

Portal
Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings
Mario Kart 64
-


Bastion
The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time

Pac-Man

[PranaDevil]

Portal might actually beat Tetris?

I'm going to sincerely answer this question:

How many times have you guys beaten Portal 1?

How many times have you beaten Tetris?

Not my point.

The point should be "is Tetris really all that enjoyable to play? Does it draw you in and make you want to play more of it?" and the answer is no... no it does not, it's boring as hell and you generally only play it if you've nothing better to do. While Portal engages the player, draws them in, and is hugely enjoyable while you play it, even to the point where you sometimes can lose track of time while playing it (Portal 2 more than 1, as 1 is a bit on the short side). I'd be hard pressed to even see an argument as to Tetris being "better" than Portal in any way. Unless you are basing it on "Tetris is an older game, it should win", in which case I'm sure Pong should be beating everything.

[Cheery Dog]

Tetris
Pokemon R B Y
Mario Kart
-
Roller Coaster Tycoon
Pokemon G/S
Frogger

[Hiraki]

I'd be hard pressed to even see an argument as to Tetris being "better" than Portal in any way.

If you play it because you have nothing better to do, then it must have some appeal.

My point is that I think Portal is a better game than Tetris. There's no doubt in my mind about it. But you could say the same thing for Deadly Premonition and Resident Evil. Granted, it's not the best comparison, but the point lies in the idea that I'll take Deadly Premonition, even if I hate frame dips (and I'm trying to play Pokemon Y right now and anything with Fennekin is hell), because it's fun. I honestly get that Portal can be fun for some people but the fact that it has the same levels and no variability with 4~ hours worth of content just doesn't sound like a fun game to me. It just sounds like a game that everyone will pick because it's the everyone choice. I'd rather have Portal 2 up here than Portal 1.

[Alduskkel]

So variability in ~4 hours of content is the most important thing? Jesus, then Rogue should have won -- and it wasn't even nominated.

[Hiraki]

So variability in ~4 hours of content is the most important thing? Jesus, then Rogue should have won -- and it wasn't even nominated.

Do you realize why Gone Home isn't a game?

[Alduskkel]

We could argue about that, but neither of us will change our minds so it's pointless.

[mith]

Breaking them up by generation might make sense, yes. (Actually, if I had done that, I probably would have just done the same with the other series; combining Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, or Final Fantasy VII-IX into a single entry wouldn't be all that crazy.)

It would have been completely crazy. I can accept the WWE Raw vs Smackdown series has basically not changed for a lifetime. But to even suggest FFVII and FFVIII are the same game with slight changes is... ridiculous to be quite honest. Plus then you would have Sonic Adventure being dragged down by all the other guff that came out afterwards, Mario 1, 2 and 3 all being grouped as the "same" game, despite all the changes.

It would be like saying Snap and Poker are the same game as they both use cards... or hell, if you want to even try being more accurate, it's like saying 5 Card Draw and Omaha are the same game as they're "still poker". (Although anyone out there who does think that, I'll play you heads up anytime)

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that they are the same game, only that I think having generations within a series compete instead of single games would have been an interesting alternative.

[Nicodemus]

Tetris
Pokemon
Super Mario 64
-

Roller Coaster Tycoon
Super Smash Bros.

Pac-Man

[PranaDevil]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say that they are the same game, only that I think having generations within a series compete instead of single games would have been an interesting alternative.

Ahh, I misunderstood, in that case that's actually an interesting idea. Though would it mean that some games wouldn't be able to be counted, such as the original Soul Blade being unable to be entered due to it not being part of a series within a consol generation, as Soul Calibur was released on later consoles? Or would we assume that a single game released for a single generation of consoles would count within it's own series?

Incidentally, if Dizzy didn't land high I think people would need slapping.

I honestly get that Portal can be fun for some people but the fact that it has the same levels and no variability with 4~ hours worth of content just doesn't sound like a fun game to me. It just sounds like a game that everyone will pick because it's the everyone choice. I'd rather have Portal 2 up here than Portal 1.

Tetris has variability, multiple levels and more than 4 hours of content? It's the same repetitive stuff over and over again with the only change being speed. It's skillful I'll give it that, but you picked the wrong game to be suggesting should go over Portal when you're complaining about there being little content within it.

[Hiraki]

It's the same repetitive stuff over and over again with the only change being speed.

And yet, people still play it today.

It's that formula that creates the game.

[animorpherv1]

Portal
Pokemon
-
-

[Brandi]

It's the same repetitive stuff over and over again with the only change being speed.

And yet, people still play it today.

It's that formula that creates the game.

By this logic, the most casual games are the best games, because everyone and their mother will always play them when they are bored.
Tetris is nothing special, and I do not actually know anyone who plays it nor have I played it in over a decade nor would i choose to play it if I was bored. I'd rather play solitaire, Sudoku or minesweeper.

Tetris is like the cheap poptarts you bought at the grocery store in case you didn't feel like cooking. It lacks substance and isn't very enjoyable, but it's there.

[PranaDevil]

It's the same repetitive stuff over and over again with the only change being speed.

And yet, people still play it today.

It's that formula that creates the game.

By this logic, the most casual games are the best games, because everyone and their mother will always play them when they are bored.
Tetris is nothing special, and I do not actually know anyone who plays it nor have I played it in over a decade nor would i choose to play it if I was bored. I'd rather play solitaire, Sudoku or minesweeper.

Tetris is like the cheap poptarts you bought at the grocery store in case you didn't feel like cooking. It lacks substance and isn't very enjoyable, but it's there.

and you only get them is there is literally nothing else on the shelves.

Put it this way... Tetris falls into the same bracket of "things to do while taking a shit" as word puzzles, and those crappy DS games such as Pic Pic (incidentally, what I'm currently in the process of, and also about 1000% more fun than Tetris, despite quite clearly being dull and shit).

Also, people still play Portal today... in fact I've completed it 3 times myself because it's also a good laugh to do so every so often as it's quick and fun to play. So... are we saying it doesn't count because "People have played Tetris for longer"? I mean people have played Sonic 1 for longer than any other Sonic game, but it doesn't make it better (That falls to either Sonic Adventure, or Sonic 3 & Knuckles... let's not prat about splitting those two up, they were made as one game, but deadlines forced them to split them, they are a full game together, and should only ever be played, and viewed, as a single game).

I'm still waiting on Hiraki to make a point here, because thus far he's contradicting himself more than a politician who's attempting to claim that people should stop taking from the system when they don't need to financially, while happily claiming expenses for a second home.

[Hiraki]

I can't convince you guys and I'm not going to try any longer. Take it as a "Haha! We won!", I don't care. You're just misconstruing my argument and will continue to do so. Prana's last statement basically confirms that notion.

[xRECKONERx]

It's the same repetitive stuff over and over again with the only change being speed.

And yet, people still play it today.

It's that formula that creates the game.

You're making the argument that solid repayability outweighs a solid one-time experience and I just don't think that's inherently true. You could make arguments both ways, but to say that one game is better than another because you can play it over and over instead of just once seems poor.

[Brandi]

I can't convince you guys and I'm not going to try any longer. Take it as a "Haha! We won!", I don't care. You're just misconstruing my argument and will continue to do so. Prana's last statement basically confirms that notion.

I think that's an unfair assessment, and you are just being over defensive about it. We merely disagree and are arguing the points you presented.

[Hiraki]

We merely disagree and are arguing the points you presented.

No, both times you and Prana have jumped on the "bait." I didn't leave it on purpose but it obviously is attractive but is not specifically what I am addressing.

You could make arguments both ways, but to say that one game is better than another because you can play it over and over instead of just once seems poor.

Unlike Reck here who is addressing my point. I would say you were wrong here though. While I do not trust major game scores (for the fact that they linger on the scores rather than the facts about the game), replayability is almost always a "factor" (again because there is no real grid system because they're shouldn't and can't be one) in a game's review. I mean sure, if there's a game that has a point and it only needs to be played once to understand that point, then sure. You can throw replayability out the window. To say, however, that you will have the same experience in a game every time is just a bad thing to say. It's why the Cage games and Bioshock Infinite are bad. There's a choice to be different, sure. But are you really going to feel different every time? No. The fact is that your choices do not matter in these games and playing them once is all you need to do. Bioshock 1, on the other hand, has shit lying around everywhere. You can more and more content by just searching rather than playing the main game (this is also true for Bioshock Infinite but definitely on a much lower degree). The problem that I find with Portal is that the main game is the only thing going for it. The driving force is simple puzzles and GLaDoS' crude humor (not to say that these are bad things but I can't seem them being GOTY or greater worthy factors)

The main reason I adore the Legend of Zelda series is because I don't remember the layout of the temples. The only ones that I know for a fact would be maybe the first temple of every game (mainly because it's the easiest and is a tutorial dungeon). So, when I play a Zelda game again, I have to rethink about these puzzles. Do I remember how to do stuff based off of past experience? Sure! Do I remember how to do everything? No, and that basically sums up how I like games. When I think of Portal, I do have the same feelings. Of course, I'm not going to remember how every course works out. However, with 20 (15?) courses, figuring out the courses maybe took a minute or two before the rest of the game was just getting everything to work. With Zelda, I'd bargain more time but I realize that the games aren't on a different level than Portal. It's just that some of the puzzles are larger in a sense. I really just don't get the love over Portal for its puzzles. Is the Portal Gun cool? Sure! It's like the Half-Life 2 Gravity Gun. But the Half-Life 2 Gravity Gun didn't make the game. There is much more to Half-Life 2 than physics puzzles. There's a plot, a solid FPS, and good gameplay. I only see decent gameplay in Portal.

[Tamuz]

Portal might actually beat Tetris?

I'm going to sincerely answer this question:

How many times have you guys beaten Portal 1?

How many times have you beaten Tetris?

Not my point.

I hate saying stupid things too, good recovery though!

[Brandi]

Hiraki~ I addressed your point with an analogy, I'm sorry if you didn't get it. Tetris is not a very good game, it is just a simple game that is easy to understand and not hard to find in many mediums.

The problem that I find with Portal is that the main game is the only thing going for it.

At least it has something going for it. Though your terminology of "main game" feels rather obtuse.

The driving force is simple puzzles and GLaDoS' crude humor (not to say that these are bad things but I can't seem them being GOTY or greater worthy factors)

Portal is game of the year material because it was one of the most original games of its time.
It's a first person puzzle game. Not only are the puzzles a reasonable level of challenging, the story was entertaining, incredibly humorous and the voice acting and music was top notch.
Just as well, Portal did a wonderful job of integrating story and gameplay together in a manner that blends them together perfectly.

It isn't just a game, it's an experience, one you wont quite get with any other game.

That said, Portal is far from any of my favorite games, it would not even make my top 10 list, but your argument as to why it's a lesser game than tetris are extremely convoluted.
Tetris is a well known and common time waster for some people, I don't personally find it fun but maybe some people do, I wont argue subjectivity like that. But just because you can play something over and over out of boredom does not mean that has replay "value".

[xRECKONERx]

Tetris being replayable and presenting a new challenge every time basically just makes it Bejeweled.