Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[Menalque]

Wait...aren’t we worried about a BD right now?

Yes which is why skitter has said that she is going to do one of the following:

(1) shoot whoever is not lynched of SS/lil
(2) shoot a ~*super secret scumread*~
(3) holster to bait the busdrive if it exists

[Menalque]

I have /thoughts/ on which thing is optimal but don’t want to out them because I don’t think it’s beneficial

[Menalque]

How come I get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon but now suddenly it's 2 days in and it's a okay? W/e I lost my right to call reads atm since I'm 0/2 and I need to flip a scum for people to listen to me so I'd do it. Have people explained why S_S that doesn't boil down to (Poe read)

Eh? I have no idea what you mean. When did you get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon? Also there’s a load of stuff in skitt’s ISO I think if you wanna look there, she’s been the one most consistently pushing him

[Menalque]

Fmpov he’s said a couple of things that I think are incongruent with what he’s said before as town and it means I’m fine lynching him/lean towards him being scum, gimme a sex and I’ll find them

[Menalque]

So am I and I'm not being wagoned.

Mostly because we’re hung up on resolving lilith/S_S though tbh

I don’t see the benefit in fracturing that off into a third wagon on you just to then have those still highly contentious slots around in the late game

[Menalque]

It probably is. I'm a lot more likely to appear invested in things as scum.

I think S_S has said before as town that he appears scummy as scum and this is often called out. Therefore it’s kinda odd that he’s also saying he’s more likely to appear invested as scum when I think people who appear invested are more likely to look town

Probably the same things town is doing at this point.

This is sort of a cop out and I would also find it odd for him to think this 660 posts in when I kind of think scum would be starting to do not town things. Take his point about scum trying to look like they’re doing the same things as town tho

do u not scumhunt anymore?

Not on D1.

Provably false, there are multiple games where S_S has done plenty of scumhunting on D1 (first that comes to mind now is tris’ mininormal but I can find others very easily)

No, then we’re weaker because we’re getting further away from outnumbering the scum and he gets to coast another day because people want to try and flip their scumreads.

This sounds like empty rhetoric to me.
[snip]

This just felt like a weird dismissal

And I honestly feel like it's kind of ridiculous that I'm being pushed for calling gobble scum when that doesn't suit any agenda (if he's VT then I just look mega bad on his flip, if he's my partner and I'm bussing then lol, if he's SK then he probably shoots me if I fail to get him lynched), and sticks out like a sore thumb. Last I checked I wasn't in the habit of drawing attention to myself for no reason as scum.

Like seriously.

The support for gobble groupscum is not there. I knew it wasn't going to be there. People are not thinking critically about the claim and retraction and instead just going "oh maybe he's VT who messed up" as if that makes any sense.

WHAT IS MY ANGLE HERE AS SCUM?

Please answer that. What am I trying to accomplish as scum, knowing that people are very likely not going to listen to me, because they never do?

Honestly the two posts that make me most think S_S could be town. But like I do think that if the alternative was likely to be him, and he was being pushed hard by people (like me!) prior to the retraction, there’s an incentive to be on the defending side while I’m pushing gobbles for claiming SK but then to switch to making sure the lynch goes through once gobbles starts looking townier. But like, I do kinda think the indignation could be town

I also really think they give the lie to this, because town S_S pretty definitively does scumhunt on D1 and this now sounds much more like an excuse for not having scumhunted than it fits into his meta of not letting people push him into stuff

Would you like me to find myself saying I don't scumhunt on D1 as town? I'm sure I can.

It's not literally true, of course, since it depends on the situation. But my philosophy is very much to try to find town in the early stages and then put things together mechanically from there.

There’s a difference between him saying he doesn’t scumhunt as town on D1 and whether he actually doesn’t. I don’t think he ever did find this for me, although in fairness I’m not sure I actually asked him to find it for me

S_S what would your read have been on lilith if she’d entered the game hard shitpushing you?

Null probably, given that she did that to me last time as scum and I townread her for it, so it's completely WIFOM as to whether she'd do it again.

This seems weird to me as I’d say that if someone had just entered a game shitpushing me then them doing the opposite the next game would actually twig me more as I wouldn’t take the exact same approach to someone twice. He’s not being unreasonable here it just seems off to me to be this null on her shifting radically in how she’s approaching him

I may not have an accurate conception of scum-Menalque.

But I don't think the scum-Menalque I know gets indignant about not being labeled a scum mastermind, when doing so directly opens him up to suspicion. Possible exception is if it's his partner's list he is objecting to.

One of the other things that made me feel he was kind of townier but that might be because he’s saying accurate things about me

True, but I think that in this scenario there’s also the mitigating factor of your prior read on lilith making it hard for you to suddenly shift to bussing if you were on a “mutual townreads” course earlier on.

I don't think it would be hard for me to shift to bussing, I never had lilith as more than a light townread and they were based on very early things.

Oh I realise now I wanted one that was like a couple before this but I thought his “I can’t be bothered to play the game because I’m annoyed with what turkey did” seemed like more excuses to not have to try very hard and was scummy, especially because I don’t think what the turkey did was actually that bad and I’m totally over it by now and I would expect most town players to have a similar trajectory and feeling about it (also no one else has made a big deal of it kind of confirming that for me?)

[Menalque]

That seems like a familiar comment.

PP/skitt team confirmed?

[Menalque]

I didn’t deserve that, but thank you Mena.

I’d be lying if I said that one was intentional

[Menalque]

How come I get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon but now suddenly it's 2 days in and it's a okay? W/e I lost my right to call reads atm since I'm 0/2 and I need to flip a scum for people to listen to me so I'd do it. Have people explained why S_S that doesn't boil down to (Poe read)

Eh? I have no idea what you mean. When did you get slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon? Also there’s a load of stuff in skitt’s ISO I think if you wanna look there, she’s been the one most consistently pushing him

Also Maria can you respond to the first half of this please? About when you got slapped on the wrist for trying to drive a wagon

[Menalque]

I’d really like if penguin or Maria would vote S_S tbh

[Menalque]

Datisi could do it too if she’s up and stalking the thread

*looks into spy camera datisi is using on the thread*

[Menalque]

Hey datisi u there now

[Menalque]

Can u please put a wagon to L-1 so we can get a claim?

[Menalque]

which one do you want?

Honestly fine with either, vote your conscience

[Menalque]

Because I want the privilege of hammering depending on the claim

I hardly ever get to hammer

[Menalque]

huh...that's weird

Por qué?

[Menalque]

Oh

I thought you meant you thought it was weird datisi doesn’t like either wagon

[Menalque]

so if i voted lili rn would that annoy you

That way I get to be the person who led a wagon on scum

I am in a win-win position here dats*





*unless they’re both town lmao

[Menalque]

so how much stock are you actually putting into things you described as town!indicative for s_s in 2957?

Not loads and not enough to outweigh the stuff that I think is scummy for him. I guess my biggest problem is that I don’t have that gut-locked-on-target feeling that he’s scum so I’m not certain about it

But like the stuff that I think does make him scummy raises enough questions that the stuff that gives me pause isn’t satisfactory in placating it

[Menalque]

intent

Claim

[Menalque]

Skitter, for

christ’s sake

i have been working to do this for like a day, can you please just leave your vote on

[Menalque]

Why is everyone always so sketchy about L-1s on this site, I swear to god

[Menalque]

it's on in spirit. i support pushing for intent. i don't want lilith to like decide now is a great time to vote and then try to play it off like they didn't realize the vc or something

In what world does lilith think she survives that if she’s town?

[Menalque]

I was gonna lolhammer

Ooops. Did I say that out loud?

Although I suppose we did at least get this moment from it

[Menalque]

If he claims VT and someone else hammers I’m death tunnelling them tomorrow, fair warning

[Menalque]

I never get to hammer and the last time I found a scum and called dibs on the hammer someone else poached it from me before I could get online

I can’t imagine we’re not lynching S_S unless he claims a PR so if someone else hammers him after he claims VT then I will be deathtunneling that person tomorrow

[Menalque]

secretly wants to be deathtunneled by mena

Spoiler:

The mafiascum equivalent of “choke me daddy”?

[Menalque]

*waiting intensifies*

[Menalque]

Blake how much would you say your playstyle on Blake has changed over the last year?

[Menalque]

S_S i can see ur online claim ur role

[Menalque]

Do you think you’ve become harder to read or easier?

[Menalque]

Also, do you approach games from fundamentally the same mindset across your accounts and apply the same methods and just deliver the results differently, or do you actually go about getting your reads differently on different accounts?

[Menalque]

Would this apply across those accounts though?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82575

[Menalque]

I don't understand what you mean by that question.

Would the approach of “simplifying” and avoiding ego be something you try to do on all of your accounts?

[Menalque]

Interestingly, Something_Smart is still very much online and on the site and not posting his role here

[Menalque]

Also: yoinks

[Menalque]

Sigh

I should have known he was waiting

[Menalque]

I will hammer either.

Excuse you, I will be doing the hammering here

[Menalque]

how about

i hammer

I prefer the me getting to hammer because I basically never ever get to do it because normally I’m the one pushing the wagon from early

[Menalque]

It’s almost like he isn’t role claiming because he’s trying to decide what the best fakeclaim is or if we won’t lynch him for claiming VT because we’d know that he knows that fakeclaiming is optimal

[Menalque]

mena, who would you rather deathtunnel? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Myself, for stealing my own hammer that is mine by god-given decree?

Like, you guys didn’t elect me as the governor in furrets, quite frankly the LEAST you can do is let me hammer here

[Menalque]

VOTE: S_S

Sorry had to do it before the penguin

[Menalque]

S_S were you town? That was hammer

[Menalque]

He was actively choosing not to claim it was justified

[Menalque]

He was actively choosing not to claim it was justified

[Menalque]

lol

[Menalque]

You’re already hammered S_S what were you

[Menalque]

I hammered you last page as soon as datisi voted lol

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

Lol worth a try

[Menalque]

You insult my intelligence.

So what you’re saying is you have enough time to be up to date with exactly who’s voting you and to what level but not enough time to make a claim?

[Menalque]

If skitter and I both agree to not hammer you until you get to give final reads will you claim now? I can make no guarantees on the penguin’s actions

[Menalque]

i personally love the unspoken agreement of "EVERYONE PRETEND IT WAS A REAL HAMMER"

Is it bad that that has made me townread el pingüino more?

[Menalque]

So what you’re saying is you have enough time to be up to date with exactly who’s voting you and to what level but not enough time to make a claim?

I'm going to write up my thoughts on the game and if I claim before then I doubt I'll get a chance to do it. Think of it as leverage.

Why is it that I’m picturing you in a swivel chair stroking a white cat as you post this?

[Menalque]

Also, counteroffer: claim now or we lynch you without the claim?

[Menalque]

Oh

I missed the end of last page lmao

[Menalque]

why

Idk it just felt like good jammin’ which I’m not sure I remember having had with scum!pingu

[Menalque]

Menalque's case on me is riddled with assumptions, generalizations, and just poor critical thinking in general.

Err, like what?

[Menalque]

I’m not asking for a point by point refutation but I would like you to say what you think was generally wrong with my thinking there

[Menalque]

*thonk*

[Menalque]

VOTE: Maria

@Menalque: Vote with me ans skitter, please. Anyone else is welcome to join too.

Why calling out to me specifically monkey man?

[Menalque]

Bingle is a scumlean. I know it's stale, but it's the only scum lead I have and it's better than nothing. It feels like he's trying to control the gamestate while keeping his distance. He jumped on my wagon earlier citing skitter's dubious reasoning and wouldn't engage me on it; he's challenged my mechanics but doesn't seem interested in talking it out. In other words, he's distant, and doesn't really seem to be engaging.

Lynx?

Spoiler:

[Menalque]

Sigh

[Menalque]

Bingle is a scumlean. I know it's stale, but it's the only scum lead I have and it's better than nothing. It feels like he's trying to control the gamestate while keeping his distance. He jumped on my wagon earlier citing skitter's dubious reasoning and wouldn't engage me on it; he's challenged my mechanics but doesn't seem interested in talking it out. In other words, he's distant, and doesn't really seem to be engaging.

Lynx?

Spoiler:

[Menalque]

Hmm

[Menalque]

I still think datisi and skitter are strongly town

[Menalque]

Datisi, skitter, S_S - town
Blake
A50 - townlean
Bingle, PP - null
lilith
Firebringer - scum?
Maria

[Menalque]

VOTE: maria

[Menalque]

I kind of equivocated on whether PP should be with bingle or lilith, and on where lilith should be

Also I don’t know that I scumread firebringer so much as I don’t see him as town and I think even the other slots are more deseable as town than him. Idk, I’d like those reads though fb, and a gamestate impression, don’t hold out on me

[Menalque]

Let me kill the one and only player in the game townreading me after hard tunneling a VT flip. Yeah, that's not how it works. Honestly people are voting me just for the sake of

But pb was vigged?

[Menalque]

i'm a bit shocked that i wasn't immediately run up after SS's wagon died and i think that means mena is probably town

Extrapolate?

[Menalque]

We have no reason to believe mafia didn't shoot him.

...the fact he’s dead and a big shot him and there are multiple possible roles that either block a kill on someone or stop someone killing seems like a reason to believe mafia didn’t shoot him?

[Menalque]

I think pure boi being double killed is substantially less likely than the scumkill being missing due to some protective factor/hiding role

[Menalque]

Quite possibly, I’m p tired

If skitt is scum fakeclaiming the shot how is she planning to explain the lack of additional NKs on additional nights? And why claim it there at what I think would be a very pro-town time to claim to avoid the discussion going off into a load of speculation on why scum made a weird NK

I’m still thinking about lil. I don’t think Blake is scum although admittedly I’m not super confident in my ability to read her

[Menalque]

Also, while she still can and does take me for a ride sometimes I also think skitter is just very town off play at this point

[Menalque]

I will think about it but rn I’m thinking that there is kind of a weird incongruity with you going on here and it fits what I think that scum!you might do after the S_S mislynch falls through

[Menalque]

I'm quite surprised I haven't been pushed today when I was coming back expecting votes. I'll try to get some energy for this game soon. Mafia rn is just a drag for me

Maybe I can just ask to be vigged since I don't think I make end game here and it's best to get my flip while we can. Or maybe that's just me being tired.
VOTE: Lilith

oh there's the wagon on me. Neat. Back to afk I go

When I see reasons for why I'm scum I'll responded to them.

Let me kill the one and only player in the game townreading me after hard tunneling a VT flip. Yeah, that's not how it works. Honestly people are voting me just for the sake of it. The only one who put some effort into it is Skitter. Let me go look into something before I sleep

Both of our town flips have called me town. Has anyone posted reasons on why I'm scum that aren't skitter? Nope. Almost said something about gobble but that was already proven false. Datsi and you? Not a word. Wanna know the number of players expressing townreads on me? It's 1 or 0. Scum me having no townreads on her? Not a thing.
pedit: Calling PB a weird nk in the first place is odd. But anyway, the skitter talk is proven by her shooting another night so no need to go in on it more. That also wasn't the point. That gets proven tonight or not.

If you can't give a confident reason on why you're voting me that isn't just 'poe' you shouldn't be voting me Mena and considering the amount of time in the day phase it's very easy to go back and rethink your stances. (Like me!)

Mostly this all felt like a really weird chain of progression, from seeming very happy and chilled and talking about how getting your flip would prob be good for the game because you have doubts about you end gaming

To then like explicitly making a thing of not caring about being wagoned and going afk again and just being sort of tongue in cheek

To pushing quite hard for people to justify why exactly they’re scumreading you and trying p hard to survive and get people to reconsider your slot

[Menalque]

Hmm maybe it was pre-emptive bringing that up actually my bad

But yeah both of us sleeping is probably a good plan lol

[Menalque]

If you are scum I’m starting to fear we will never get to be town together again

[Menalque]

Why are you being so flighty skitt? Why the shift to bingle?

[Menalque]

Not particularly helpful tbh

[Menalque]

Can you try to explain why you shifted vote?

[Menalque]

You still think S_S could be scum?

[Menalque]

bingle i need to get a better read on

Why will voting bingle help you get a better read there?

[Menalque]

You still think S_S could be scum?

This was @blake actually

[Menalque]

*thonk*

what was this thonk for/about?

S_S’s posting at L-1

[Menalque]

idk voting people seems to push people to do things that make them easier to read?

Do you think this is likely to work on bingle?

[Menalque]

I just don’t think pushing at bingle with votes is any more likely to make him do something strongly AI than doing the same to you

[Menalque]

Put simply, do you think that this:

Spoiler:

Okay so first of all I want to apologize to the game. Regardless of what Menalque says is or isn't plausible, my enjoyment of a game can actually be killed pretty easily, and I've actually had pretty much no wim for the entirety of D2.

The gamestate as a whole I think quite frankly has not at any point in the game been healthy. Gobble and lilith and I were all pushed pretty much entirely for being low-hanging fruit. Menalque's case on me is riddled with assumptions, generalizations, and just poor critical thinking in general. In a vacuum I would say it's scummy but I do think everything else about the way he's handled this game is extremely genuine.

The case on lilith is similarly tenuous, and while I almost certainly should be voting my counterwagon here, I'm not sure that it would actually be better for the game if she got lynched. If she's scum, she's probably being bussed or I'd be long since dead, but if she flipped the attention would probably go to my wagon.

Anyway. I definitely don't have a read on everybody. Some people have just slipped by my radar time after time, and some people I've paid attention to but wouldn't trust myself to read at this point in the game.

Skitter is town, because she doesn't have suicidal tendencies.

Menalque is town. He's extremely interactive, and every move is pushing the game closer to potentially being solved.

PP is leantown. His posting today has been pretty dynamic and it seems like he really does care about how things go down. When I've seen him as scum (at least Alisae v. Pine but there may have been others I'm forgetting) he faded into the background, pretty much always.

A50 is leantown. Very hard one to explain. I feel like with all his "I might not be the hider, but IF I AM..." bullshit, he's genuine reveling in trying to troll scum and not worrying about looking weird.

Maria and Blake are null. I know better than to think I can get a handle on these two very crafty players when I'm not invested in the game.

Firebringer and Datisi are null. I don't think I can recall a single thing of relevance either one has done aside from voting me.

Lilith is null. I can't in good faith extricate my read on her from my colored view of the gamestate, and I can understand how this gamestate came about with her as either alignment. Her early posting was towny. Her later posting wasn't. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she could be town shutting down under pressure, because I've been known to do that and she hasn't played town much since coming back. But I can't commit to a read on her.

Bingle is a scumlean. I know it's stale, but it's the only scum lead I have and it's better than nothing. It feels like he's trying to control the gamestate while keeping his distance. He jumped on my wagon earlier citing skitter's dubious reasoning and wouldn't engage me on it; he's challenged my mechanics but doesn't seem interested in talking it out. In other words, he's distant, and doesn't really seem to be engaging.

ss part of why i was scumreading you this game is that you went after the low-hanging fruit in gobbles at just the times i thought scum would, at just the times i thought it was p obvious his actions didn't come from groupscum

Even though he wasn't groupscum, I disagree that that was obvious. The political aspect of the SK makes claiming SK definitely something that scum would consider doing to save their skin, and gobble is definitely the type of player who would consider fakeclaiming SK as scum (as evidenced by the fact that he did the even weirder play of claiming it as TOWN).

The timing of the retraction was when it seemed to be a foregone conclusion among most people that he was gonna be the lynch but they were going to scumhunt for a while first, which is pretty much the worst-case scenario for him in that spot (as scum he would have been hoping to derail and confuse the game), so he claimed VT to either try to avoid the lynch entirely or bait it onto him immediately.

To me, that made more sense than claiming SK as VT, something which surely means you'll have to be lynched at some point, and people aren't going to take you seriously, and town PR's might be distracted.

I’m not asking for a point by point refutation but I would like you to say what you think was generally wrong with my thinking there

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm referring to 2957.

Probably the biggest single thing is that you're taking everything I was saying really literally (like for instance, that I don't scumhunt on D1) when they are emblematic of how I approach the game in general and not absolute incontrovertible law. Your comment about 662 is a good example of this-- I said that scum was probably going to be doing similar things to town at that point. You said you disagreed with that, but it misses the point that that's still a very good representation of how I think-- it is always better to assume that something is NAI than to assume that it is AI.

The other thing I'd like to mention is the turkey thing, you seemed surprised that it could kill my motivation that badly. I guess you've never played in a game where that kind of thing has happened, but here is an example; I was a JOAT with a cop shot and I copped the N1 kill and was tilted for pretty much the entirety of D2. You said that you don't think what gobble did was bad but I heavily disagree, and when you try to think about the way I see the game I should think you'd be able to understand that. What he did basically demolished any chance we had of a normal D1.

is within S_S’s scumrange?

[Menalque]

Cause I don’t really think it is, and if I’m right about that then I don’t really care about the prior bits that I thought were scummy because I’m not sold that those posts are posts scum him is capable of making ESPECIALLY if he knows he’s reasonably likely to be lynched anyway

[Menalque]

I think the only case where S_S tries that hard as scum is if he knows he’s being bussed and that his bussers will unvote which doesn’t fit because you and skitter were two of the first people to come off him

[Menalque]

@S_S when you get back here do you trust me to read datisi?

[Menalque]

You’ve played with S_S before right? Go back and look at a couple of his past games and decide if you think that could be a collection of posting that he, as scum, makes, especially while reacting in real time

[Menalque]

Okay well at least go and have a look back at GnR3 and how he played that

For the record, I don’t think S_S is bad at scum by any means (I’ve never won against him when he’s been scum actually) but I think I’ve always been susceptible to how reasonable he tends to be and to townread that. But I think the amount of content there was very genuine and earnest and trying to provide help to solve after death rather than trying to wriggle out of a lynch

[Menalque]

Eh it helps me checking my baseline expectations by trying to remember how I felt in past games with people

[Menalque]

Okay that’s fine

What did you think about the wagon breakup and change of directions in thread after?

[Menalque]

W-was that the wind? Guys, I swear I heard something. Maybe we should get out of this cabin!

[Menalque]

At this point Blake, S_S, and (mostly) bingle are all vanities. If you’re on one you should pick a proper wagon or try to turn the person you’re on into a real wagon if you have a lot of conviction that they’re scum. S_S needs to make an actual vote

[Menalque]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, Datisi [2806]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887], Datisi [2988]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, skitter30 [2990]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

@maria I kind of feel like you’re saying that I would never be justified in scumreading you lol

Like if I said I toneread you as scum, you’d say your tone depends on your mood and that that’s not legit or reliable. If I track a progression for you that I think often comes from scum (acting okay with being lynched but then trying to avoid it p strongly through actions) then again it’s because of your mood. I imagine that if you hard defended scum you’d say it was a bad reason to scumread you because you’d be more subtle, and if I called you out for bussing you’d say it would look more convincing. So like I’m happy to dialogue about why you think X is scum but you just saying you’re not scum here because your progression is adequately explained by mood isn’t convincing to me

[Menalque]

Oh right, the two VCs: I was also wondering about the gamestate. So if S_S is town then if lilith were scum it would make sense for scum to be trying to lynch him right? Only the pushers there were (skitt, A50, datisi) which is i think a solidly towny core + myself later on. So that theory doesn’t really hold up.

What about if they were TvT, what would scum be doing? Probably gently supporting both wagons if they were both townled onto town, given the strong likelihood of skitt being town. So maybe 2 scum on one and one on the other, meaning all the scum in (you, Blake, PP, bingle, fb) which frankly doesn’t seem awful as a solve

[Menalque]

Do you disagree with that take maria? If so then what were scum doing not pushing S_S while lilith was in contention for the lynch and who/why is there scum in (datisi, skitt, A50)?

[Menalque]

Or alternatively if my gamestate read is correct then lilith is town and it makes a lot of sense to flip you instead of lilith?

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S_S, choosing between lilith and Maria who would you rather vote?

[Menalque]

Being scumread is something I'm used to so it's easy for me to tell the logical pushes that make some amount of sense in my mind vs ones I know aren't AI when people think they are. Why do you think I react so calmly under pressure? Because regardless if I'm town or scum it's simple to defend myself. If the game state is so hung up on S_S/Lilith shouldn't that be where most of you are going? Not this Maria flip that if I flip town will just be wasting a lynch and if I'm scum what doors do that open?

No one in this game has expressed a townread on me just others they would lynch first. So if I am scum I'm getting bussed. I would like to believe or at least have enough confidence in my scum ability that I wouldn't be put in that spot in the first place if I was scum. However wifom aside, everyone should really think on how valuable my flip is and how strong that scumread is. Bingle to me is pretty much outted scum because they're smart enough to reach the point I'm bringing to you all right now without having to type it. He's just trying to line up lynches.
pedit: And how is that?
pedit2: I'm not focused on you I'm more focused on trying to survive and prove my points. I have liked your posting a bit more but then that means I need to break into the random townblock that has been made and quite frankly that isn't going to happen with how people see me at the moment.

I don’t think the gamestate is hung up on S_S/lilith and i don’t think it has been for a couple of days. I think it was for a while, and then after _S turned up and towned it up, you got wagoned and then the other votes spread out and the game went quiet. Part of that is because people have been VLA but I could also see this as scum trying to apathy out the game a little. My bigger issue is still: if lilith is scum, why were the people pushing S_S townreads of mine? Why were the scummy slots split across both wagons? I think that makes more sense if they’re both town, and I think you make a lot of sense as scum especially given my earlier point on you suddenly being very invested in the game and not being lynched (possibly a mood thing, sure, and if it is that and I mislynch you for it I apologise but I can also very easily see it as scum you being happy to let the gamestate proceed as it was while town (skitter and I) we’re both pushing town, only to realise you needed to start playing harder once that stopped happening.

And idk if you are being bussed? If you are I think only bingle makes sense and it’s actually proving pretty hard to get a lynch on you with people pushing towards lil and S_S and bingle as other possibilities for today. I think scum is probably avoiding taking a hard stance on you but I’m not at all sold that you’re being bussed based on the resistance I’m feeling. And I actually am more confident in you being scum at this point than I’ve been in anyone being scum all game, the reason that I’ve been hesitant to call it like “Maria is 100% scum guys omg” is (1) I’m trying to be less arrogant than I used to be and more pleasant to play with and (2) I know your reputation and that you’re very good as scum and that I could be wrong in what I’m reading here, but that doesn’t change my feeling of confidence in it or that I want to lynch you, it just stops me having the hubris to say I’ve definitely caught scum!you here.

Finally, if you flip scum I think my theory of the scumteam in (you, PP, Blake, bingle, fb) is more likely to be correct, and that lilith is very likely town. Specifically, if you’re scum I think Blake is quite likely to be scum here, and would proceed on that basis tomorrow. Admittedly, if lilith is scum it would be big and idk what it would mean, but I don’t wanna lynch there because as of right now I think the game makes more sense if she’s town and you’re scum

[Menalque]

Additionally, I also like your avi

[Menalque]

Menaaaa why you gotta respond when I’m reading my romance novel.

Ugh I’ll answer later

Sorry

That’s cool, we’re not in a rush and tbh skitt needs to get back first before anything happens anyway

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Talking of — lilith where are you and where’s your head at?

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S_S, choosing between lilith and Maria who would you rather vote?

...lilith?

I want to hear more from her first though.

Okay why?

[Menalque]

when she gets wagoned early

We’re 130’pages in my dude, I wouldn’t call this an early wagon. Yeah, okay, I’m fine with waiting for lil to turn up and actually I do wanna hear from her. But like what do you make of the situation where you were both being wagoned if lilith is scum?

[Menalque]

in other news, i attempted to run errands for the first time since quarantine started, which turned into an unmitigated disaster. i’m now stranded and not really sure how i’m going to get home? my train is all fucked up so it’s probably going to take me two hours to get home, and i’m carrying three large and extremely heavy bags. so today was/is fun

Big rip. Hope everything is all right.

+1

also @skitter I hope you feel better soon

[Menalque]

does anybody else think bingle/mariar could be a thing?

y-e-s

I just said this...

[Menalque]

saaaaaaaaaaaaaame

should i vote mariar?

I would be happy with you proxy voting her so that we can get a claim, but she said she was gonna respond to me and I'm okay waiting

[Menalque]

Early as in early day, not before there's been much content.

I think I've already talked about the world where lilith is scum? It's the one where her buddies have decided to bus her for some reason or another, probably to make themselves look good, and they chose to commit to it even when my wagon was looking more likely. This is definitely a play she's capable of making, and probably one she'd agree to since she's a good team player.

Do you think that world isn't plausible or likely?

well idk, I don't think it matters that much which day we're technically in versus how much content has come out in that time. is there less concrete information? sure, but there's like 130 pages to base a read on MariaR on.

I don't really see why scum chose to bus Lilith for ~*looking good*~ reasons on D2 when they could just... not do that? like the best case I can see is maaaaybe going for distancing and then getting stuck as the wagon grew but like... I pushed the wagon so I know it wasn't started from a scum-motivated perspective which makes that less likely imo. I don't think what you're saying is impossible, but I think it's more likely that (provided my TRs are broadly correct) scum decided to straddle across two wagons being pushed by town than just bus lilith for the hell of it

[Menalque]

@lilith why do you want to lynch Blake the most and Maria the least?

[Menalque]

hey skitter if I said (MariaR, Blake, Bingle) what would you say you thought of that?

[Menalque]

how about three for three?

[Menalque]

that's currently my ego solve if Maria flips scum but if she doesn't let's just forget this post and let it be buried in my ISO

[Menalque]

i don't think it's 3/3

why?

[Menalque]

I don't really see why scum chose to bus Lilith for ~*looking good*~ reasons on D2 when they could just... not do that? like the best case I can see is maaaaybe going for distancing and then getting stuck as the wagon grew but like... I pushed the wagon so I know it wasn't started from a scum-motivated perspective which makes that less likely imo. I don't think what you're saying is impossible, but I think it's more likely that (provided my TRs are broadly correct) scum decided to straddle across two wagons being pushed by town than just bus lilith for the hell of it

You're probably right. I tend to derive an undue amount of glee as scum from screwing with VCA and so it's definitely the type of thing I would do. I also tend to bus pretty hard when I feel like the partner is going to go down sooner or later, and I would expect there are a decent amount of people who have that similar philosophy, but you're probably right that it's less common than I'm making it out to be.

I mean I sometimes do, I sometimes don't but this isn't just pure VCA, it's also about how the game felt at that point. The consensus of lynching in (lilith, S_S) didn't feel challenged. Now one explanation for that was that you were both scum and therefore unable to effectively resist a scum lynch, but the alternative is that scum didn't really care either way but needed to appear somewhat invested in being around. Would scum crowd out a wagon to mess with VCA? Sure, maybe, but a lot wouldn't and my town reads independent of gamestate make me think that's not what happened.

[Menalque]

feels too ~neat~
everyone's reads look very similar to each other (even the people in group), which points to me that there's probably a scum in the townbloc

hmm, idk, I think the only person who could reasonably be that is A50 and you seem pretty confident on him so

[Menalque]

Firebringer I'mabout to go to bed but what do you make of the game?

[Menalque]

idk isn't it weird that {me, you, blake, bingle} have fairly similar readslists?

I... just proposed (Maria, Blake, bingle) as a solve? When I say townbloc I mean (you, me, datisi, A50, S_S)

[Menalque]

@mena i need people to hard scumread/push me to get me back to being interested in the game.
i lack interest in maria push. She could be scum but i feel like this could easily be her town game.
I think my back and forth with lilith on day 1 was townie. She kind of annoyed me in a way town only do.
So i lack interest in most wagons today.

I could maybe do bingle but it would be lazy of me to do so cause I am like poe him to scum at this point and don't really get strong scum vibes from him. Just massive ehhhhhhhh.

if u like I can try to push you as scum tomorrow if Maria flips scum? although in that case I actually think I want someone else more, so how about I push you tomorrow if Maria flips town and I push someone else if she's scum? and if she's scum you can just sheep me on the other person I want instead

[Menalque]

feels too ~neat~
everyone's reads look very similar to each other (even the people in group), which points to me that there's probably a scum in the townbloc

idk isn't it weird that {me, you, blake, bingle} have fairly similar readslists?

idk isn't it weird that {me, you, blake, bingle} have fairly similar readslists?

I... just proposed (Maria, Blake, bingle) as a solve? When I say townbloc I mean (you, me, datisi, A50, S_S)

i'm not sure what you're trying to say here
fire is also a poe scumread btw

you said you thought there was a scum in the townbloc

I asked who it would be

you said it was weird that (you, me, Blake, bingle) all have similar reads

I pointed out that when I say townbloc I'm not including (Blake, bingle) and thought that was clear from including them in a solve with Maria right before this?

[Menalque]

if u like I can try to push you as scum tomorrow if Maria flips scum?

sure. pls push me if she flips town too. I need a fire under my butt.

I feel like u didn't read the rest of the post because I said actually if she flips scum I'll push someone else but if she flips town I'll probably push you. so really you should be saying "pls push me if she flips scum too"

[Menalque]

if u like I can try to push you as scum tomorrow if Maria flips scum?

sure. pls push me if she flips town too. I need a fire under my butt.

I feel like u didn't read the rest of the post because I said actually if she flips scum I'll push someone else but if she flips town I'll probably push you. so really you should be saying "pls push me if she flips scum too"

u caught me not reading

looks like ur scum then Firebringer! only scum wouldn't read my posts

[Menalque]

I pointed out that when I say townbloc I'm not including (Blake, bingle) and thought that was clear from including them in a solve with Maria right before this?

oh sorry those thoughts were not necessarily connected

basically, i think the gamestate is weird if {townreads - i.e. you and me} and {scumreads - i.e. bingle and blake} have similar readslists
i don't know what exactly it implies (probably that there's scum in the townbloc) but i'm making note of it because something isn't right here

oh, okay, this is clearer and makes more sense. hmmm. I kind of agree but I'm not sold because I was treating Blake and bingle as part of the townbloc until pretty recently (you may remember you objecting to this while S_S and lilith were the top wagons) and that would leave them (if scum) with difficulty in rapidly pivoting from the reads they gave while in it to alternative reads without arousing suspicion

[Menalque]

looks like ur scum then Firebringer! only scum wouldn't read my posts

ONLY SCUM DEAL IN ABSOLUTES.

MR SCUM MENALQUE

[Menalque]

god imma be so happy if it is (Maria, bingle, Blake) I haven't solved a game in like forever

[Menalque]

on the flip side if it's like (datisi, skitter, A50) I may retire again lmao

[Menalque]

Tonights games sucked so Ima just go curl under a blanket with a book gn friends.

oh, that sucks, I'm sorry. Good night maria

[Menalque]

actually good night all it's 5:30am why tf am I still up

oh right, I was watching a film for my film club for tomorrow. incidentally, if anyone hasn't seen Do The Right Thing (1989) it's a banger

[Menalque]

was in the apocalyptic upick dead thread,

[Menalque]

i kinda want to vote mariar tho
i'm feeling very indecisive today

Yes, this, do this. I already fought you on S_S/lilith don’t make me also fight you on lilith/Maria pls

Like idm if you wanna wait to see what maria produces today but it would have to be

quite something

for me to want to change at this point

[Menalque]

Do you think I’m tunnelling skitt/dats?

[Menalque]

I’m not sure I’ll ever forgive krazy for introducing that “bet on people’s alignments” mechanism

[Menalque]

was in the apocalyptic upick dead thread,

Don’t touch your face, man.

Menalque used

infect

on Open 781:JK9++. It was super effective!

[Menalque]

was in the apocalyptic upick dead thread,

Fear me.

Ofhrz, I’d like to report Blake for bullying and also breaking my poor little townie heart.

[Menalque]

I very much doubt that scum holstered and I’m not indulging speculation off the back of scum having holstered for X, Y, Z reasons when that’s just anti their wincon in most situations

[Menalque]

There are 3 scenarios in which we have 2 groupscum and 5 in which we don’t, including the two most likely scenarios by probability (again, I’m pretty sure this is what bingle or ddl calculated in C9++ and I think bingle has confirmed again this game that 3 or 4 Ts are the most likely)

[Menalque]

I’m still digesting Maria’s post, but I’m putting it out there now that we’re not basing the lynch today on any spurious notion of slipping and we’re definitely not basing it around the thought that maybe a 2 man scumteam no killed

[Menalque]

I think I’m not townreading A50 based on my own reads actually, but I am by the proxy of skitter and my own tendency to misread him as being scum

[Menalque]

I’m still digesting Maria’s post, but I’m putting it out there now that we’re not basing the lynch today on any spurious notion of slipping and we’re definitely not basing it around the thought that maybe a 2 man scumteam no killed

Actually, sorry — this is a case of me falling into old habits I’m trying to avoid. I’d like to rephrase as “I think it would be very bad to base the lynch today on the thought that... etc etc”

[Menalque]

Claim, lilith

[Menalque]

Honestly Maria’s post didn’t do a whole lot for me and I think I still have a preference to lynch there but if skitt and Blake both prefer lilith and I have good reasons to think at least 1 is town then... yeah, can compromise here

Skitt, you never said if you thought I was tunnelling here, I don’t think

[Menalque]

This slips that if she's scum, scum dont have a joat

How does it do that? Scum could just have not used their strongman shot

[Menalque]

Claim, lilith

Also if I see you posting a bunch around site but not claiming I’m treating it as a scumclaim

[Menalque]

Also if I see you posting a bunch around site but not claiming I’m treating it as a scumclaim

Lol, haven't we been over this before

And what happened right after I said that?

[Menalque]

I explained to you why I was doing what I was doing?

Bingo

[Menalque]

I find that the threat of me dropping the hammer if I see posting elsewhwre on site but not here is a pretty effective mechanism for getting people to respond to the thread

[Menalque]

I’ve already asked for a claim.

[Menalque]

VOTE: lilith

[Menalque]

I think that if this is true you should flip probably Maria but if not then Blake I guess @lilith

Datisi I’m fine with you hammering now

[Menalque]

S_S, how do I do the math on what the likelihood of different setups is?

[Menalque]

because if this is all true we're in 4 T's (or less) with two drawn from V's, right?

[Menalque]

Lilith, did you ever say why Maria was at the top of your PoE? as in, the person you thought was towniest in that group

[Menalque]

ok:
- i think that lilith's play is probably still scummy
- i think that another k isn't super likely
- if she's scum the venge is irrelevant
- if she's town and lynch her we probably want to optimize the venge
- if she's town blake's unvote is scummy imo

agree with this in it's entirety

[Menalque]

its*

[Menalque]

i think we'd either get scum or the chance at a vengeshot that can't be interfered with by scum
so i think lynching lilith is probably the best move

yes, definitely. I think there's like, no real reason to not lynch a venge once they're outed? because yeah, if they're scum nothing happens and if not then can deal with the other most likely scumslot in the case that they're town (in this case Maria) and provide extra info for going into tomorrow

[Menalque]

namely: if both lilith and Maria are town I think I probably need to check my TRs again

[Menalque]

hang on, let me find the post

[Menalque]

Spoiler:

I'm quite surprised I haven't been pushed today when I was coming back expecting votes. I'll try to get some energy for this game soon. Mafia rn is just a drag for me

Maybe I can just ask to be vigged since I don't think I make end game here and it's best to get my flip while we can. Or maybe that's just me being tired.
VOTE: Lilith

oh there's the wagon on me. Neat. Back to afk I go

When I see reasons for why I'm scum I'll responded to them.

Let me kill the one and only player in the game townreading me after hard tunneling a VT flip. Yeah, that's not how it works. Honestly people are voting me just for the sake of it. The only one who put some effort into it is Skitter. Let me go look into something before I sleep

Both of our town flips have called me town. Has anyone posted reasons on why I'm scum that aren't skitter? Nope. Almost said something about gobble but that was already proven false. Datsi and you? Not a word. Wanna know the number of players expressing townreads on me? It's 1 or 0. Scum me having no townreads on her? Not a thing.
pedit: Calling PB a weird nk in the first place is odd. But anyway, the skitter talk is proven by her shooting another night so no need to go in on it more. That also wasn't the point. That gets proven tonight or not.

If you can't give a confident reason on why you're voting me that isn't just 'poe' you shouldn't be voting me Mena and considering the amount of time in the day phase it's very easy to go back and rethink your stances. (Like me!)

Mostly this all felt like a really weird chain of progression, from seeming very happy and chilled and talking about how getting your flip would prob be good for the game because you have doubts about you end gaming

To then like explicitly making a thing of not caring about being wagoned and going afk again and just being sort of tongue in cheek

To pushing quite hard for people to justify why exactly they’re scumreading you and trying p hard to survive and get people to reconsider your slot

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, Datisi [2806]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

VOTE COUNT 2.4

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Blake Belladonna [2720], MariaR [2893], PenguinPower [2924]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [4]:

Firebringer [2424], Bingle [2740], Almost50 [2887], Datisi [2988]

-- [L-2]

Not Voting [3]:

Something_Smart, lilith2013, skitter30 [2990]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.
Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2020-06-30 01:30:00)

Game Notes:

skitter30 regular v/la Fridays and Saturdays

@maria I kind of feel like you’re saying that I would never be justified in scumreading you lol

Like if I said I toneread you as scum, you’d say your tone depends on your mood and that that’s not legit or reliable. If I track a progression for you that I think often comes from scum (acting okay with being lynched but then trying to avoid it p strongly through actions) then again it’s because of your mood. I imagine that if you hard defended scum you’d say it was a bad reason to scumread you because you’d be more subtle, and if I called you out for bussing you’d say it would look more convincing. So like I’m happy to dialogue about why you think X is scum but you just saying you’re not scum here because your progression is adequately explained by mood isn’t convincing to me

Oh right, the two VCs: I was also wondering about the gamestate. So if S_S is town then if lilith were scum it would make sense for scum to be trying to lynch him right? Only the pushers there were (skitt, A50, datisi) which is i think a solidly towny core + myself later on. So that theory doesn’t really hold up.

What about if they were TvT, what would scum be doing? Probably gently supporting both wagons if they were both townled onto town, given the strong likelihood of skitt being town. So maybe 2 scum on one and one on the other, meaning all the scum in (you, Blake, PP, bingle, fb) which frankly doesn’t seem awful as a solve

Being scumread is something I'm used to so it's easy for me to tell the logical pushes that make some amount of sense in my mind vs ones I know aren't AI when people think they are. Why do you think I react so calmly under pressure? Because regardless if I'm town or scum it's simple to defend myself. If the game state is so hung up on S_S/Lilith shouldn't that be where most of you are going? Not this Maria flip that if I flip town will just be wasting a lynch and if I'm scum what doors do that open?

No one in this game has expressed a townread on me just others they would lynch first. So if I am scum I'm getting bussed. I would like to believe or at least have enough confidence in my scum ability that I wouldn't be put in that spot in the first place if I was scum. However wifom aside, everyone should really think on how valuable my flip is and how strong that scumread is. Bingle to me is pretty much outted scum because they're smart enough to reach the point I'm bringing to you all right now without having to type it. He's just trying to line up lynches.
pedit: And how is that?
pedit2: I'm not focused on you I'm more focused on trying to survive and prove my points. I have liked your posting a bit more but then that means I need to break into the random townblock that has been made and quite frankly that isn't going to happen with how people see me at the moment.

I don’t think the gamestate is hung up on S_S/lilith and i don’t think it has been for a couple of days. I think it was for a while, and then after _S turned up and towned it up, you got wagoned and then the other votes spread out and the game went quiet. Part of that is because people have been VLA but I could also see this as scum trying to apathy out the game a little. My bigger issue is still: if lilith is scum, why were the people pushing S_S townreads of mine? Why were the scummy slots split across both wagons? I think that makes more sense if they’re both town, and I think you make a lot of sense as scum especially given my earlier point on you suddenly being very invested in the game and not being lynched (possibly a mood thing, sure, and if it is that and I mislynch you for it I apologise but I can also very easily see it as scum you being happy to let the gamestate proceed as it was while town (skitter and I) we’re both pushing town, only to realise you needed to start playing harder once that stopped happening.

And idk if you are being bussed? If you are I think only bingle makes sense and it’s actually proving pretty hard to get a lynch on you with people pushing towards lil and S_S and bingle as other possibilities for today. I think scum is probably avoiding taking a hard stance on you but I’m not at all sold that you’re being bussed based on the resistance I’m feeling. And I actually am more confident in you being scum at this point than I’ve been in anyone being scum all game, the reason that I’ve been hesitant to call it like “Maria is 100% scum guys omg” is (1) I’m trying to be less arrogant than I used to be and more pleasant to play with and (2) I know your reputation and that you’re very good as scum and that I could be wrong in what I’m reading here, but that doesn’t change my feeling of confidence in it or that I want to lynch you, it just stops me having the hubris to say I’ve definitely caught scum!you here.

Finally, if you flip scum I think my theory of the scumteam in (you, PP, Blake, bingle, fb) is more likely to be correct, and that lilith is very likely town. Specifically, if you’re scum I think Blake is quite likely to be scum here, and would proceed on that basis tomorrow. Admittedly, if lilith is scum it would be big and idk what it would mean, but I don’t wanna lynch there because as of right now I think the game makes more sense if she’s town and you’re scum

this is I think all the relevant stuff on why I think Maria is likely to be scum, especially in a world where lilith is town

[Menalque]

I also think that Blake's efforts to get lilith > Maria are scummy in the case that Maria is scum and lilith is town, and PP's equity would go up to for how much he's been trying to get that to happen since Maria got wagoned

[Menalque]

oh, and lastly the bingle wagon never took off as much as the MariaR wagon did (although she only reached L-2, saying that) and so I think there are more people, myself included, forced to re-evalute in the case that Maria's not scum whereas in the case where (bingle, lilith, MariaR) are all town I think I'd only be re-evaluating that too late

[Menalque]

can you eli5 that^^ because i've read it 3 times now and i feel dumb

the last bit?

okay, I'll try

let's say lilith is town and she is vengeful. the other place that we tried to go today was Maria, yes? and Maria kind of had some degree of resistance, I think that in a world where lilith is town the gamestate indicates that she's likely to be scum, I'm broadly townreading people who wagoned her today -- in all those cases, it makes a lot of sense to me that Maria is scum and that's where I'd like to go tomorrow if lilith flips town. HOWEVER, in a case where Maria is also town, this is bad because it either means that my town reads are wrong or my town reads are also misreading the game really badly.

flipping the other slot that there seems to be a consensus may be scum on top of lilith means that if they're both town, re-evaluation needs to happen. every slot needs to be rechecked, and I'm not sure how I feel about the townbloc in that scenario.

flipping bingle would be fine if he flips scum, but the worst case scenario would be if he's town, AND if lilith and Maria are town, because the support would probably still be there for Maria tomorrow, but tomorrow might by Lylo. venging Maria removes more uncertainties than venging bingle does, imo

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I mean if lilith is town she should venge where she thinks is best, I'm just trying to let her know where I think is best and why I think the healthiest option going on would be venging Maria

I'm not even sold overall on whether she's town

also, idk what the consequence of her turning out to be the venge would be on the odds of you being serial killer not vig

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idk if I'm mathing right here, but isn't the odds of 2 K's like 0.25%?

(0.05*0.05)*100?

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that seems too low

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what are the odds of two K's?

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{a50}
{mena}
{ss}
{dats, blake}
{pp}
{lilith} - idk/null
{mariar, fire, bingle}

i'd want someone in the last tier vigged, and there's absolutely scum in my townreads, i think

where do your townreads start?

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oh wait stupid question, sorry, assuming with PP?

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can we have bingle/S_S/skitt check that lilith's math is actually correct?

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UNVOTE:

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are we all done talking or was there more stuff to cover?

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If I die and lilith flips venge and doesn't shoot Maria that's my top slot that should be looked at again tomorrow, and if scum I think Blake should basically always be lynched the day after (unless it's lylo but in that case probably check it anyway)

if I die and skitter survives 2 nights she's probably either SK or scum, if she's scum I imagine A50 is too

if lilith is scum and I die probably force Blake to commit on her second top scumread and if they flip town seriously look at lynching Blake if she hasn't died to NKs by then

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You just want to hammer, don't you?

...no

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*waiting for L-1 intensifies*

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oh c'mon there's like 4 of you who have been around who can make this L-1 stop dragging it out

skitter/datisi/Blake/firebringer/S_S I'm looking at all of you

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ur both so mean

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hmm, that sounds like a terrible deal

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jk i fukcing hate hammering

are we done with discussion or whatever the hecc

pedit: hmpf

y-Es

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everyone vote fast night

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hmm, that sounds like a terrible deal

but u think she flips scum, yes? Lets put ur vote where ur mouth is!

I think Maria more likely flips scum than her and if she doesn't there's a good chance ur scum and we might be in lylo

hence me giving you my vote seems like a p bad idea

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jk i fukcing hate hammering

are we done with discussion or whatever the hecc

pedit: hmpf

y-Es

are you sure though?

dAtISiiii

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hmm, that sounds like a terrible deal

but u think she flips scum, yes? Lets put ur vote where ur mouth is!

I think Maria more likely flips scum than her and if she doesn't there's a good chance ur scum and we might be in lylo

hence me giving you my vote seems like a p bad idea

so ur not conf in this at all?

no but she's gonna venge who I wanna flip (I think) and maybe I'm just wrong

either way I get more or less what I want

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geez fire it's like you haven't been reading my posts in the build up to this at all (I think u probably haven't been reading my posts in the build up to this at all)

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called it lol

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jk i fukcing hate hammering

are we done with discussion or whatever the hecc

pedit: hmpf

y-Es

are you sure though?

dAtISiiii

what?

pLEaSe jUsT MaKe tHe vOtE

MY BATTERY IS GETTING LOW

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I can literally see the percentage number dropping before my eyes

VOTE: lilith

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boop

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ofhrz you better still be online u can't deprive me of this flip I gots to know

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even tho u didn't agree mena. i am gonna shame u tomorrow if lilith is town

what if Maria is scum tho? I feel like I get a pass if Maria is scum even if liilith is town

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ahhhhh, hammers are so delicious

I always wanna drop them as soon as people hit L-1 but then it's like "wait, if this person is a PR this is a terrible idea" but like

the

temptation

is always there

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even tho u didn't agree mena. i am gonna shame u tomorrow if lilith is town

what if Maria is scum tho? I feel like I get a pass if Maria is scum even if liilith is town

naah still gonna shame u

yeah, I mean, I had a feeling you'd say this

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did u hear you've been demoted from your position as second best shitposter on site fb? I regret to be the one who has to inform you

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yes, votato has been promoted and you're down in third now

I can plead your case before the shitposting committee but it looks like u need to up ur game

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what if Maria is scum tho?

if you are town, I am sorry for still being very, very bad at reading you

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Great shot, skitt

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I think this probably does make S_S town

Blake too I guess?

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And potentially Maria for that matter