Mini Normal 2257: Polish Rap | Game Over

[Ahri]

tfw scum think I'm so useless

they'd rather hunt for my mason partner than for me

[Nero Cain]

tbf you've done nothing but kill town and Enchant was mildly confirmed town with how Jeff was treating that slot.

[Hella Jeff]

you guys didn't force a solve out of scorpious that didn't have any masons, that's a cardinal sin
not that it matters anymore
i need owl's second gunsmith check

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: jeff

[Hella Jeff]

VOTE: Nero Cain

[butterchurn]

Well, okay, guess we're not voting Ger then. What changed to make you want to vote so quickly, Nero?

[Nero Cain]

I'm bored and I hate waiting but I'm not wrong either.

[DkKoba]

Votecount 4.1

Disney - Kizo

Hella Jeff

(1): Nero Cain

Nero Cain

(1): Hella Jeff

Not Voting

(5): yeezys, Quiet Owl, geraintm, Ahri, butterchurn

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate


Day 4 deadline ends in (expired on 2022-02-09 18:31:24)

[Ahri]

aren't votes locked in lylo?

[Nero Cain]

no

[geraintm]

catching up.

first, sorry the masons have pushed me to where i voted. i thought that one of the mason's must have had something on scorpious to ping their radar so badly. i assumed one of them had checked them out and gotten a weird result. i see now they must have had nothing.

I guess the good news is that masons are confirmed to exist, so there's no need to be paranoid about that anymore. 3 scum hiding among 4 people. As of now, I would lean towards voting geraintm, but I want to take a more in depth look at the thread knowing Scorpious and Enchant's alignments.

Please don't vote anyone right away -- if town votes town here we probably lose immediately. This game is definitely winnable still.

why me? i dont see why you are picking out on me?

Nero - why the call for a mass claim and then forgetting all about it a few hours later? what did you remember/were told that made you realise a mass claim was a bad idea?

aren't votes locked in lylo?

what does this mean?

we are clearly voting between 2 today. but no one should do anything until everyone checks in. and no one should have done anything

[Nero Cain]

Nero - why the call for a mass claim and then forgetting all about it a few hours later? what did you remember/were told that made you realise a mass claim was a bad idea?

its LYLO with no flipped scum, why shouldn't we mass claim? Its pretty much S.O.P to mass claim towards the end anyways. We maybe even should have done it yesterday. Nothing made me think its a bad idea or that I "forgot" I'm just impatient and I think Jeff is obvious scum.

[Nero Cain]

why me?

why me=fry me

[Nero Cain]

That said I don't really see myself unvoting. I mean obviously, if you and Yeezy refuse to vote Jeff and rather vote Ger (which is what I assume Butter was doing by offering up a much easier elimination.) then I think I'll be forced to vote there. All 4 town have to work together b/c scum can just not vote and force a NL. So we need to really talk about who we want dead. Ger could be scum, I guess but my gut tells me Jeff is scum and I guess Owl. But Butter seems fairly scummy as well. Not like overly scummy in the way that jeff and Ger seems scummy but his play is kinda weird from a town pov and seems pretty manipulative.

if owl is a pr

Spoiler:

I felt like Owl was scummy when he didn't die at night and DW died instead. Then Enchant died the next night. So that's 2 nights in a row that scum didn't give a shit that he could get an inno/gulity. Seems kinda wonky as hell. like I understand that sometimes scum intentionally don't kill prs to sow paranoia but leaving an active gunsmith shot out there is ???

If Owl is town it was a massive misplay to not target Scorpios.

If Owl is not a pr. Staging a "reaction test" is a very simple way to look busy but not do anything useful.

He seems to not be doing much of anything. 364 is promising content that he never delivers on but it was just him and Jeff and he can't hunt his buddy. It was lip service.

As much as I hate enchant and gera sometimes I just think that scum is butter, jeff, and owl but idk.

fite me

It'd at least produce some content to analyse, instead of trying to make something out of this eeny-meeny-miny-mo fingerpointing game.

didn't much like this. "oh no I can't do anything b/c there's not content!" Wich wasn't true anyways.

On reread: I think I missed that the idea was to spring a trap and see if I'd claim VT? But also why gamble when >90% of scenarios a no gun result is just town?

I mean you’re still claiming VT so it doesn’t matter how we got here.

Mafia is Scorp/Butter/Dwlee. If Owl is lying we just lim him tomorrow. Town should realize a 1 for 1 trade is a good thing, especially if it’s a VT.

Why are you scumreading butterchurn?

what do you think of Jeff town reading that slot?

Doesn't make sense. Didn't see anything that stood out as town positive from them.
Have a vague memory of someone suggesting in an older game that scum should hide their partners in their town reads rather than their null/scum, but don't feel very confident about Jeff being scum.

sorta makes me think butter/jeff/owl team

Still think Jeff's telling me that he didn't like the capo wagon b/c he was "funny" and then telling me that I had a town read but I was just being intentionally obtuse was dumb as hell.

what reason is there to dismantle this read right now?

like look how smug he is. This is a man that knew Enchant was town.

His explanation for why he's playing differently also doesn't make sense. He's a liar.

I feel like Jeff and Owl are just sitting there and not scum hunting.

Ima go do not mafia things right now but I'll talk about Butter when I get back. There likely won't be any new posts when I get back but just in case someone actually does post: the unclaimed should start claiming and Arhi and Yeezy really need to talk about who they think is scum.

[Nero Cain]

it might be too little too late for town to win and if I'm wrong I'm wrong and you guys get to blame me in after the game but jeff/butter/owl is really what im thinking right now. Tell me why I'm wrong.

[Nero Cain]

or you know what? I think I'll quasi hard read Ger. I lowkey suspect Butter of being scum and pushing for Ger to be the game ending mislim. Even if I was wrong about butter that still makes it a jeff/ger/owl team. So Jeff and Owl are scum regardless of who is the third but like I said I suspect that butter was pushing ger as the game ending mislim.

@Yeezy and Arhi-I won't be sheeping you on Ger. Pick one of Owl or Jeff (ideally Jeff but it doesn't matter)

[butterchurn]

why me? i dont see why you are picking out on me?

Doesn't matter much at the moment since it looks like I won't be voting you toDay anymore, but a few reasons:
- I think if Nero is scum, you likely are too. From his behavior both of the last two Days, when looking at possible partners for him (you/Owl, you/Jeff, or Owl/Jeff), I think the first two make by far the most sense. On Day 2, he came in and voted you when you weren't really at any risk, but that suspicion seems to have tapered off gradually. He switched onto fua faster than he indicated, which previously I thought may have been due to him being partners with Scorpious, but I think it's also possible that he didn't want a third wagon to start forming on you since there were multiple people expressing suspicion. Then yesterDay, he starts out on Enchant and somewhat weakly on you, and then shifted over to me/you/Jeff, and then shifted again to me/Jeff/Scorp and then me/Jeff/Owl. All of that to me looks like partner behavior from his side. From your side too, really, since it doesn't look like you've ever genuinely considered the possibility of him being scum, just engaged with him weakly. And on the other hand, if he's town, then that only leaves you/Jeff/Owl. So in one scenario you are guaranteed scum, and in the other one I think it's by far the most likely.
- On top of that, I think your behavior has just been fairly scummy all game. Your posts feel artificial, your actions seem opportunistic, and all the things I've already talked about.

In order of most to least likely:

Players:
- geraint (See above.)
- Owl (Just has done absolutely nothing pro-town. Their Day 1 still looks extremely scummy to me. Really the only thing in their favor is the claim, but I also still can't really see why they did what they did from a town POV.)
- Jeff (Doesn't really seem to be scumhunting lately, but neither are the masons and they're pretty much conftown, so I dunno how telling that really is. If he's scum, I kinda would have expected him to vote Scorpious yesterDay. Has had some fairly weak defenses when pushed.)
- Nero (Actually is putting in effort to find scum. Is definitely capable of doing that as mafia too, though, and has had some strange behavior, so I can't rule him out.)

Teams:
- Nero/Owl/geraint (Nero's push on Jeff despite having more reasons to think that Owl is scummy makes me think this team is more likely than a Nero/Jeff/geraint team. Nero has been behaving oddly around Owl for a while.)
- Jeff/Owl/geraint (Seems unlikely that all 3 would be on the Greeting wagon, and they'd then also kill galron/dwlee to narrow that down. Just have a really hard time seeing that happening, but besides that these are the three that look the most scummy to me. Maybe it's all a big WIFOM and they're hoping people will think it wasn't possible for all of them to be on it?)
- Jeff/Nero/geraint (The Jeff/Nero bus is possible, and would explain why Jeff hasn't done much, if he already had planned to go down. Feel relatively neutral about this one but it's possible.)
- Nero/Jeff/Owl (I just don't really see Nero as scum here without geraint. If this is the team, well played Nero, I guess.)

These are somewhat at odds with each other -- my top 3 scum I have a hard time seeing together. The most logical way to reconcile that for me is that I'm misreading Nero, but I'm not feeling particularly willing to put my faith in that. In isolation Jeff definitely looks more scummy to me than Nero does. The alternative is that I'm misjudging what a Jeff/Owl/geraint team would choose to do.

---

Seems like everyone is waiting for someone else to start the massclaim, which feels like scum wanting to figure out what they can safely fakeclaim, but whatever. I'm VT.

Jeff, who do you think is scum?

[Nero Cain]

(Nero's push on Jeff despite having more reasons to think that Owl is scummy makes me think this team is more likely than a Nero/Jeff/geraint team. Nero has been behaving oddly around Owl for a while.)

my suspicion of Jeff and Owl is roughly equal and I was pushing Jeff yesterday. Like I said, I did think Owl was the 3rd mason but it was apparently Enchant so that's why I changed my read.

[butterchurn]

Ah, I see I somehow missed that sentence in 599, sorry about that. I guess that would explain the odd behavior. So you still thought Owl was mason up until the Enchant flip?

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

If Ger is still your top scum read why do you keep saying that you won't vote him today?

If I'm the least likely to be scum per the middle of your post then why am I at the top of your most likely team and who you want to vote? or are the teams section not ordered?

[butterchurn]

Also, is there a reason that you're calling for a massclaim while not claiming yourself?

[Nero Cain]

yes

[butterchurn]

If Ger is still your top scum read why do you keep saying that you won't vote him today?

If I'm the least likely to be scum per the middle of your post then why am I at the top of your most likely team and who you want to vote? or are the teams section not ordered?

I assumed that we wouldn't be eliminating outside the cross toDay, since that's how ELo usually goes down, am I wrong in assuming that? I would obviously prefer to vote ger if that's on the table, I just didn't think it was.

The teams list is in order of which I think is most likely, primarily based on associations, and the player list is in order of who I think looks scummiest individually, mostly disregarding associations. As I said, the two unfortunately don't line up. I wish they did, because it would make things easier for me, but that's how it shakes out sometimes. One of the two lists is wrong and I know that, that's why I'm trying to work out which one. You are not at the top of who I want to vote, I'm not sure where you got that. I would prefer voting ger over both you and Jeff, and I would like to hear more from Jeff before coming to any sort of decision between you two.

---

I find it somewhat hard to believe that you thought Owl was mason up until the Enchant flip. Posts 293 and 412 both seemed to clearly point to the capo/enchant slot over Owl. I think everyone else was much less likely than those two -- me and Jeff voted yeezys, you and geraint had interactions with Ahri that seemed very un-mason-like. I thought Enchant was likely already at that point, but could understand seeing things differently. But then yeezys posts 572 where they say that capo was outed as the third mason. It could have been an elaborate ploy to pretend the third mason was someone else, I guess, but I feel like all of this points very strongly to Enchant being mason. I would expect town, especially town who is engaged with the game and reading and trying to solve -- i.e., I would expect it from you if you're town, maybe not ger or Owl -- to be reading those posts to help narrow the POE (privately, not in thread, of course), and it's strange that you apparently weren't doing that. Of course, you would be doing that as scum too. But scum has a motivation to appear surprised by the night kill, and act as if they didn't know.

[Nero Cain]

actually, not really. I mean I

THOUGHT

about fakeclaiming a pr to push a scum wagon through and I can check off the "fakeclaimed a pr to get scum eliminated" but the proposed order in 598 was getting the scummiest players to claim first and I thought the claimed pr should go first.