Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[BRantz]

And potentially Seraphim might be able to solve this. Though this thought process is based on Dave scum.

[Seraphim]

First, it's a gut meta tell for me. I've played with DDD before, usually he is WAY more aggressive and pushes shit hard.

Here, he seems to be coasting and is not really interested in finding scum. Not only is it uncharacteristic of his town game, I find it to be very untownlike behavior.

It's not a super strong case by golly but my gut feels this lynch very strongly.

I've been there too. Sometimes my gut is right and occasionally it's wrong. Not much I can do about DDD's tenure. All I can do right now is work for town and see if that's enough to turn this around.

Can we talk about your other scum reads?

zombiekitty and BRantz are the only other players that are scum based on PoE. I have strong townreads on the rest of the town. I don't like a BRantz lynch for today, though, because some of his reactions to my play look more town than some of his past posting...so I am questioning my read enough to postpone his lynch.

I am fairly certain however that if we lynch from the you/BRantz/zombiekitty pool that we will hit both scum. Given that she's being replaced now, I would not mind a compromise lynch on zombiekitty if it prevents a BRantz lynch.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 3.07

BRantz (4)- ForWhomTheJellyRolls, Drixx, davesaz, Diego1487
davesaz (3)- Seraphim, zombiekitty, BRantz
zombiekitty (1)- numberQ

Not voting: No one!

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

48 hours from finding a replacement for zombiekitty.

[Diego1487]

I would not mind a compromise lynch on zombiekitty if it prevents a BRantz lynch.

I don't understand this. If he's still scum in your eyes, then why work so hard to not get him lynched today?

Also, when you say compromise, do you mean you'll go with BRantz tomorrow if we go Zombiekitty today?

[BRantz]

So no response for me then diego? That's what I thought.

[BRantz]

While diego has been "obv" town his desperation attempt to stop the lynch when it finally looked like it could happen could be an associative tell between him and dave. It looks more possible that his crazy case against ddd was staged. If Dave ends up being scum I would add him to the list of potential scum.

[Diego1487]

Desperation to stop the lynch? Please, I'm willing to lynch him today, I just think you're the better lynch. And I don't understand what I'm supposed to be responding to.

[Diego1487]

If we want to talk desperation attempt to stop a lynch, I think its best to look at Seraphim's play to stop your lynch. Is that an associative tell?

[BRantz]

It's very different. A better association would be me jumping off the ika wagon yesterday.

I asked you a question near the bottom of page 25. I wasn't being facetious, I really want an answer.

[Diego1487]

In 542 he's implying that Ika should have been easy to see as town -- perhaps he left the ika wagon to set up this moment.

Yeah, he pretty much just nailed that. Believing that ika was town does not make you town. As it was said, I believe it was Drixx, scum would have loved to leave ika alive in this town, knowing they could get him mis-lynched the next day, or possibly even in MYLO. If that's the association you want, have at it.

Lol Tell me why it is scummy that I see a contrived case, but admit there might be bias in my view diego? I'm all ears.

Reading back my statement, I can see how it looks like I was using that quote for my reason for the vote. The fact that you believe his reasons are contrived doesn't make you look scummy. I don't agree with you, but that's a different argument. The sole reason I used that quote was because your interaction with Dave during that time convinced me that you were my #1 scum read. I apologize for the confusion.

I said you were scummy, because once again, you jumped ship to another wagon. This in and of itself isn't the end of the world, but you're not actively pushing these wagons. You're just starting to start them, or trying to get momentum going on them.

[BRantz]

In 542 he's implying that Ika should have been easy to see as town -- perhaps he left the ika wagon to set up this moment.

This in and of itself isn't the end of the world, but you're not actively pushing these wagons. You're just starting to start them, or trying to get momentum going on them.

So I am only quoting this portion of the post, but real quick... which is it? Do you think I believed ika to be town, or do you think I knew?

As for this. Not actively pushing wagons? Isn't trying to get momentum moving on them exactly that? Give me one example of a place that I started a wagon just to start it.

[Diego1487]

In 542 he's implying that Ika should have been easy to see as town -- perhaps he left the ika wagon to set up this moment.

This in and of itself isn't the end of the world, but you're not actively pushing these wagons. You're just starting to start them, or trying to get momentum going on them.

So I am only quoting this portion of the post, but real quick... which is it?

1.

Do you think I believed ika to be town, or do you think I knew?

As for this. Not actively pushing wagons?

2.

Isn't trying to get momentum moving on them exactly that?

3.

Give me one example of a place that I started a wagon just to start it.

1. I think you're scum, so I think you knew ika was town. However, my point is that you trying to get town points for leaving the ika wagon is LAMIST.

2. You can get momentum going by simply piling up votes.

3. Today's vote on me is the quickest to come to mind

That is a conspiracy theory for the ages... and not one very well thought out.

VOTE: diego1487

Picking up where I left off yesterday.

You vote me, for either the conspiracy theory, or yesterday's reads? Not sure which.

UNVOTE:

@zombie: While I agree that warning about L-1 probably should have been given (especially since this is a newbie game), you should get in the habit of counting the votes yourself before voting if it is close. There are plenty of times in the other types of games here that people will put someone at L-1 and say nothing, so it is worth getting used to. What is your suspicion of bitmap/ what caused the suspicion?

Why are people not using their votes? You would think we were in LyLo or MyLo.

VOTE: ForwhomtheJellyRolls

The very next post you unvote, without stating why, and move on to your next wagon. No where in the middle to you try to get me lynched, other than with your vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: numberQ

Vote is largely because of what just happened in 526. (also sorry for being away everyone, weekends are tough for me)

For all of you not voting anyone, consider this, one of the best ways to get reactions out of people is to use your vote and create wagons. Discussion is all well and good, but by itself with nothing else going on you are very rarely going to find scum just because of it.

While writing this post, I realized you never explained your vote for Jelly, but there it is again, Unvote and off to another wagon.

[BRantz]

I did explain my vote for Jelly, just not at the time. It happened when talking to dave in the last few pages.

Agreed, you can get momentum on a wagon by voting... thus "pushing" the wagon.

Yeah, I started today on you, you were my largest scum read at the end of yesterday. Why are you implying it can't be both picking up where I was yesterday and your ridiculous theory? In truth, that very same theory is the reason I (and others) ended up unvoting you because you truly seemed to believe it in your defense of it as time went on. Yes it was my next post that unvoted you, but you are misrepping me. Those two posts happened a day or two apart. It isn't like I voted you, and then immediately unvoted you.

I am consistently surprised by how bad your cases are logically Diego. But luckily for you that is generally more of a town tell than scum tell.

[numberQ]

Diego is being very compelling at the moment. I'd like to add a note about BRantz's vote for me -- when I asked him to explain the vote (because he asked me to convince him I'm town), he instead posts this:

I actually kind of liked numQ's response to me asking him to prove he isn't scum.

He doesn't explain himself, and then in that same post goes on to put dave at L-1 for no reason, as far as I can tell. Post 609 was the first time he seemed anything approaching suspicious of DDD/dave, and the vote comes not long after that.

Am I wrong, BRantz? Did you have a good reason for putting dave at L-1? Because otherwise I'm getting close to having intent to hammer.

[Diego1487]

Haha, I'm touched BRantz. You know, tin-foil hats aren't for everyone...they itch.

Why does it matter how far apart the vote and unvote was? You literally added nothing to conversation in between(anti-town) and unless someone would have asked, you would never have explained either votes. You throw a vote out, you give it a couple of days to see if it comes to anything, and then you move on. That is my case against you, and I'm not sure where there is anything illogical about it.

Pushing a wagon is where you actively try to get others to vote for that person. You know, you get up and "push" it forward. Your play during this game is either start or jump on a wagon and "sit." When that wagon is on a hill, your weight will get it moving, but in no way is that pushing.

[BRantz]

@numQ: Did you not read any of the exchange between dave and I? I think my reasons for voting dave are very clearly stated there, and then I state them again when he asks for the case against him. Your post was incredibly scummy to me in general (the one I voted you for). When I asked for you to prove to me you weren't scum I was looking for a few different responses. You responded as a town player would in my mind. That is all.

@Diego: It matters because things happened in the interim. I may not have been involved in the happenings, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. If that is your case against me, and don't worry I already know you are just going to explain it away as trying to buy town cred, how do you explain my play toward the end of yesterday differing completely from what you suspect me of?

@Seraphim and dave: One of you is town and one of you is scum, I'm like 95% sure. Whichever of you is town please solve this game for this town, the rest of them have very little hope otherwise.

[numberQ]

The exchange between dave and you? You mean the one that consisted of dave voting you, you saying his case is conjecture, and then you putting him at L-1? Where in there is a case of any sort? As for your vote on me; is your entire case literally that that one post was "incredibly scummy in general"?

Also, come on BRantz. Whether you're town or scum, calling all but two people in the game hopeless is a pretty shitty move.

[numberQ]

Oh right, you do actually say that your case on dave was that he had contrived reasons for voting you, and you even admit it's possibly OMGUS. Is that really enough to put someone at L-1? Maybe it's just me but that seems unnecessarily risky.

[BRantz]

It isn't meant as an insult numQ. Just that the town is fairly obviously fairly inexperienced, and it just takes time to develop (Diego is a prime example of this, at the moment I feel like he makes some really awkward cases, but he is applying the effort and so over time I think he will be a very good mafia player).

Also normally no, not enough reason to put someone at L-1. But two days before deadline, it certainly is. Though the deadline is being pushed back right now while a replacement is being found.

[BRantz]

Though I probably could have phrased it in a nicer way.

[numberQ]

Fair point, on both accounts. I still wouldn't mind seeing you lynched, but at this point I have enough doubt that I at least want to wait for zombiekitty's replacement. That slot is still my top scum read.

[Drixx]

Well if nothing else, there shall be some interesting things to review whenever this resolves and the next day phase comes. I'm happy with where my vote is.

[ForWhomTheJellyRolls]

I'm happy where my vote is. I really don't think ZombieKitty was scum, she seemed much more noob town to me. I'm feeling that Brantz or davesaz is probably scum but not both with the way they have been going after each other.

[DeasVail]

snscompt1 replaces zombiekitty.

[BRantz]

Welcome sns!