Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

hewitt · Post Post #675 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:02 am

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-27

Mastin - 11

(Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

OrangePenguin - 5

(cateraction, Maturin24, Mastin, Azhrei, Tarhalindur)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(Amished)

zoraster - 1

(hewitt)

StevieT92 - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

Phoebus - 1

(RedCoyote)

Not Voting - 6

(alvinz95, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Knight of Cydonia, Devestation)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.
Alvinz95, Maturin24, Knight of Cydonia and killa seven prodded.

Also

Prod: Maturin24

zoraster · Post Post #676 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:06 am

I apologize, everyone. I should have done it all in one post. One last

Prod: cateraction

He hasn't posted here since May 21st.

Caboose · Post Post #677 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:10 am

Azhrei wrote:As to 3, no, there isn't anything I know that you don't, but there is still a chance that a recruiting mason or a lyncher-psych (don't think they exist, but ya never know) or something else that can fix mastin up. Note the word 'chance'. I don't know that it will happen, but I know that it is possible. Hence, chance.

Well, using that logic, why are we trying to lynch scum at all? There might be a magical role that will turn the scum into town.

hewitt · Post Post #678 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:12 am

Caboose wrote:
Azhrei wrote:As to 3, no, there isn't anything I know that you don't, but there is still a chance that a recruiting mason or a lyncher-psych (don't think they exist, but ya never know) or something else that can fix mastin up. Note the word 'chance'. I don't know that it will happen, but I know that it is possible. Hence, chance.
Well, using that logic, why are we trying to lynch scum at all? There might be a magical role that will turn the scum into town.

Are you going to reply to anything I said about you Caboose?

Caboose · Post Post #679 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:14 am

What is there to reply to? People are flooding this thread with unreadable posts and then expect everyone to actually wade through them. I'm just trying to be concise and see people's reaction to important stuff, like the Mastin wagon.

hewitt · Post Post #680 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:20 am

Let's see how about that I accused you of being unhelpful, not scumhunting, shamelessly hopping on a wagon without any original opinion, and not voting for me instead even though you accused me of being scum.

Unvote

zoraster · Post Post #681 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:24 am

Hewitt, I know we got interrupted in our conversation with each other. So I'd like to pick up where we left off at 636. To refresh, the conversation went in order:

Zoraster wrote:: It gets rid of the possibility of Mastin fake claiming Masoned or Cured through some weird character, potentially necessitating Masons to counter claim him or, just as bad, no masons being there to counterclaim him and us having to choose whether or not we believe the fake claim.

hewitt wrote:If Mastin fake claims we should urge the Masons or whoever to not come out and talk about it and then we just lynch his ass. I see no problem with this.

Zoraster wrote:What about if he real claims? Should we have the masons come out then to confirm him?

hewitt wrote:If he's real claiming then we would be stuck in a sticky situation, it would pretty much be up to the masons discretion if they want to come out and confirm him.

zoraster wrote:But you're saying that if the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him, we have to lynch him?

---
And that's where we left off.

hewitt · Post Post #682 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:33 am

If the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him then I think the smartest thing to do would be to lynch him. This is if he claims and the Mason decides not to come out and confirm him and really it's the Mason's choice whether or not to even decide to do it. I think the Mason really has Mastin's fate in his hands (that is if the general town decides not to lynch him) and I'm totally fine with that.

zoraster · Post Post #683 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 8:36 am

hewitt wrote:If the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him then I think the smartest thing to do would be to lynch him. This is if he claims and the Mason decides not to come out and confirm him and really it's the Mason's choice whether or not to even decide to do it. I think the Mason really has Mastin's fate in his hands (that is if the general town decides not to lynch him) and I'm totally fine with that.

In this case, is there a reason why Mason would have discretion to claim or not claim Mastin if he's masoned Mastin? Is there a good reason that a Mason would choose to mason Mastin with the knowledge that Mastin is going to get lynched the following day if he does not claim?

Caboose · Post Post #684 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:04 am

hewitt wrote:Let's see how about that I accused you of being unhelpful, not scumhunting,

I "scumhunt" how I wish.
I don't need anyone to tell me how and when to do it.

hewitt wrote:shamelessly hopping on a wagon without any original opinion,

I'm giving you my opinion. What else do you want?

And let's go to the votecount:

Mastin - 11 (Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

Hmmmm... Looks like I'm the first vote there.
Must've hopped on the non-existant bandwagon.

I'll go back and see if I should be the first vote or if that's a typo.

hewitt wrote:and not voting for me instead even though you accused me of being scum.

I only have one vote.

Caboose · Post Post #685 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:08 am

BTW, Azhrei will be getting my vote tomorrow, as he is also scum.

hewitt · Post Post #686 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:24 am

Caboose wrote:I "scumhunt" how I wish.
I don't need anyone to tell me how and when to do it.

Then your "scumhunting" sucks.

Vote: Caboose

For not even attempting to find scum and instead tunnel on Mastin through pretty much the whole game, apart from nonsensically calling me and Azhrei scum.

Caboose wrote:I'm giving you my opinion. What else do you want?

And let's go to the votecount:

Mastin - 11 (Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

Hmmmm... Looks like I'm the first vote there.
Must've hopped on the non-existant bandwagon.

I'll go back and see if I should be the first vote or if that's a typo.

Hm actually you were not the first vote on Mastin, you were the third. Nice try. Go back and reread if you don't believe me.

Caboose wrote:I only have one vote.

And you're not using it to vote for the people you believe are scum. That makes sense.

hewitt · Post Post #687 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:24 am

Vote: Caboose

zoraster · Post Post #688 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:38 am

Let's keep going with this, hewitt.

Zoraster wrote:: It gets rid of the possibility of Mastin fake claiming Masoned or Cured through some weird character, potentially necessitating Masons to counter claim him or, just as bad, no masons being there to counterclaim him and us having to choose whether or not we believe the fake claim.

hewitt wrote:If Mastin fake claims we should urge the Masons or whoever to not come out and talk about it and then we just lynch his ass. I see no problem with this.

Zoraster wrote:What about if he real claims? Should we have the masons come out then to confirm him?

hewitt wrote:If he's real claiming then we would be stuck in a sticky situation, it would pretty much be up to the masons discretion if they want to come out and confirm him.

zoraster wrote:But you're saying that if the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him, we have to lynch him?

hewitt wrote:If the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him then I think the smartest thing to do would be to lynch him. This is if he claims and the Mason decides not to come out and confirm him and really it's the Mason's choice whether or not to even decide to do it. I think the Mason really has Mastin's fate in his hands (that is if the general town decides not to lynch him) and I'm totally fine with that.

Zoraster wrote:In this case, is there a reason why Mason would have discretion to claim or not claim Mastin if he's masoned Mastin? Is there a good reason that a Mason would choose to mason Mastin with the knowledge that Mastin is going to get lynched the following day if he does not claim?

hewitt · Post Post #689 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:40 am

I could've swore I answered that.

WIFOM

I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.

NanookTheWolf · Post Post #690 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:42 am

Caboose wrote:BTW, Azhrei will be getting my vote tomorrow, as he is also scum.

Care to explain why you think he's scum ...

If I recall correctly, you're now the second person to make that statement regarding voting for Azhrei.

I just think that if you're willing to make such a bold statement that you wouldn't mind at explaining why you feel that way.

zoraster · Post Post #691 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:45 am

I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.

Why would you be unable to answer this question? Is there a logical reason a Mason would Mason Mastin if he knows he [the mason] will not claim, thus dooming Mastin?

FoS: hewitt

hewitt · Post Post #692 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:47 am

zoraster wrote:
I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.
Why would you be unable to answer this question? Is there a logical reason a Mason would Mason Mastin if he knows he [the mason] will not claim, thus dooming Mastin?

FoS: hewitt

Who says he won't? It's up to him if he wants to claim or not. I will be casting a vote on Mastin if he claims and the Mason does not confirm it but that doesn't mean he'll be lynched. Or perhaps the Mason will confirm it or perhaps the Mason will be like okay fuck Mastin I'm not doing this and Mastin doesn't fake claim and this is all speculation for nothing.

NanookTheWolf · Post Post #693 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:53 am

hewitt wrote:
zoraster wrote:
I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.
Why would you be unable to answer this question? Is there a logical reason a Mason would Mason Mastin if he knows he [the mason] will not claim, thus dooming Mastin?

FoS: hewitt
Who says he won't? It's up to him if he wants to claim or not. I will be casting a vote on Mastin if he claims and the Mason does not confirm it but that doesn't mean he'll be lynched. Or perhaps the Mason will confirm it or perhaps the Mason will be like okay fuck Mastin I'm not doing this and Mastin doesn't fake claim and this is all speculation for nothing.

Has anyone considered that there may be masons in the game who can't recruit?

I can't say that I'm pro mafia theory when there isn't any evidence of the particular theory ..

Outguessing the mod = Don't hold your breath

hewitt · Post Post #694 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:55 am

NanookTheWolf wrote:Has anyone considered that there may be masons in the game who can't recruit?

I can't say that I'm pro mafia theory when there isn't any evidence of the particular theory ..

Outguessing the mod = Don't hold your breath

There's too many possibilities to even begin guessing.

zoraster · Post Post #695 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 9:57 am

hewitt wrote:
zoraster wrote:
I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.
Why would you be unable to answer this question? Is there a logical reason a Mason would Mason Mastin if he knows he [the mason] will not claim, thus dooming Mastin?

FoS: hewitt
Who says he won't? It's up to him if he wants to claim or not. I will be casting a vote on Mastin if he claims and the Mason does not confirm it but that doesn't mean he'll be lynched. Or perhaps the Mason will confirm it or perhaps the Mason will be like okay fuck Mastin I'm not doing this and Mastin doesn't fake claim and this is all speculation for nothing.

You're not really answering the question.

From Mason's point of view, why would he choose to Mason Mastin if Mastin is simply going to die the next day?

To clarify, in our line of questioning, we've been using the assumption you have stated that IF Mastin claims Mason AND no mason claims to confirm, THEN town should lynch Mastin. Use this as a premise to the hypothetical because this is what you have stated.

If Mason Recruiter knows this, why would he mason mastin unless he plans to claim?

There are two, and only two logical situations that I think a Mason recruiter can choose from in the situation, using YOUR standard:

1. Mason Recruiter masons Mastin and does so knowing he will have to claim, thus outing him and making him an easy PR target.

2. Mason does not mason mastin because he does not want to claim and out himself yet.

I see no other options if we use your reasoning.

hewitt · Post Post #696 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 10:03 am

I never even said it was imperative for Mason to recruit Mastin in the first place. This isn't my line of reasoning, you're using my words to construct a line of reasoning that isn't mine.

zoraster · Post Post #697 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 10:05 am

Has anyone considered that there may be masons in the game who can't recruit?

I can't say that I'm pro mafia theory when there isn't any evidence of the particular theory ..

Outguessing the mod = Don't hold your breath

Oh, my best guess is that if we have Masons at all, they cannot recruit. However, it's been listed as a primary reason for keeping Mastin alive today, so I'm going to talk about it some. And I want to tease out the logical consequences of hewitt's policy of If Mastin claims masoned and no one claims him, then Mastin should be lynched.

zoraster · Post Post #698 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 10:08 am

hewitt wrote:I never even said it was imperative for Mason to recruit Mastin in the first place. This isn't my line of reasoning, you're using my words to construct a line of reasoning that isn't mine.

Oh, I agree with you. It's not necessary. But my NEXT point is, given this dichotomy, is it likely a Mason recruiter, even if he exists, will want to mason Mastin? A mason recruiter is a hugely powerful weapon for town (the uninformed majority becoming informed). Do you think, knowing he will have to claim if he masons mastin, that he will want to trade his PR in?

My answer is no. It is not likely.

Which also makes the following two arguments unlikely to hold water:
1. We should keep Mastin alive because he may be Masoned.
2. (stated by Mastin) we should lynch any Mason claim who is voting for Mastin.

hewitt · Post Post #699 (ISO) » Wed May 27, 2009 10:13 am

My main reason for keeping Mastin alive (as I'm pretty sure it has been this whole time) is because there are more important things to do such as scumhunting. If you want to argue the Mason argument with somebody you should be arguing it with someone who would like to keep Mastin alive for that main reason then go ahead. But that person isn't me.