Mini 1150 - There Goes the Neighborhood - Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

Packbat, AV.
Hell, maybe you.

Why are you concerned about my reads when your strongest is a slight gut read?

[GreyICE]

Except that plan A was to lynch Jedo. That being said, I can't imagine seacore being scum with that wagon. It would not shock me if the entire scum team was on it. It's the worst D2 wagon I've seen since Square Enix V.

Plus Setael is scum so etc.

[Nachomamma8]

Hmmm... Good point.

Still don't find it likely, considering Sea's "NACH I WILL FOLLOW YOU TO THE END OF THE EARTH" ploy, and Set's immediate switch to Sea when shit got hot.

[Nachomamma8]

Plus that Sea wagon is TERRIBLE.

[GreyICE]

Hmmm... Good point.

Still don't find it likely, considering Sea's "NACH I WILL FOLLOW YOU TO THE END OF THE EARTH" ploy, and Set's immediate switch to Sea when shit got hot.

Which is why setael is the right lynch for today

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote
Vote AV

Content to come back to a Set deadline lynch, but I have been talking this out and Set lynch doesnt do that much for my other reads. AV is more of an info goldmine (like krypt/doom/pack are)

[Doombunny9]

Why are you concerned about my reads when your strongest is a slight gut read?

This^ Surely you've seen SOMETHING scummy enough to comment on. Pretty please?

@Llama- Is your case on AV the same as last time or is there any new information you have?

[GreyICE]

Unvote
Vote AV

Content to come back to a Set deadline lynch, but I have been talking this out and Set lynch doesnt do that much for my other reads. AV is more of an info goldmine (like krypt/doom/pack are)

Okay so is the info going to be 'he's the most likely player according to your reads to be scum, so the scumteam will be down a member?;

Seriously Llama, wtf?

[LlamaFluff]

Okay so is the info going to be 'he's the most likely player according to your reads to be scum, so the scumteam will be down a member?;

Seriously Llama, wtf?

He is in a top three suspect for me no second thought and has been for just about the entire game, where he is in the top three is more fluid. What makes him different though compared to someone like Set is that AV is actually tied to a whole lot of pairings in my mind, as opposed to Set who really isnt apart of big wagons. Getting flips on the bigger wagons is usually a very good way to start getting the alignment of everyone else on the wagons.

I would have loved to see a vigged AV last night, he alignment really sheds light on quite a few middling reads. Also I would be willing to say town-AV means town-Sea

[GreyICE]

Okay so is the info going to be 'he's the most likely player according to your reads to be scum, so the scumteam will be down a member?;

Seriously Llama, wtf?

He is in a top three suspect for me no second thought and has been for just about the entire game, where he is in the top three is more fluid. What makes him different though compared to someone like Set is that AV is actually tied to a whole lot of pairings in my mind, as opposed to Set who really isnt apart of big wagons. Getting flips on the bigger wagons is usually a very good way to start getting the alignment of everyone else on the wagons.

I would have loved to see a vigged AV last night, he alignment really sheds light on quite a few middling reads. Also I would be willing to say town-AV means town-Sea

Yeah, because AV has been DOING A WHOLE LOT while Setael has been ACTIVE LURKING.

So OF COURSE he's tied to more player's, Setael is functionally a black hole when it comes to useful content. Each Setael post actively reduces the amount of information in the thread .

What is your case on him.

[kryptinen]

I am quite sure there's at least one scum in Set/Sea, so one of them has to go. I'm willing to lynch either one, but not as long as there's discussion. We'll talk about TS when this has been taken care of.

What is that based on, that one of me/Sea is scum so one of us has to go? Do you think we're both scum, or just one of us? I assume both since you say you're willing to lynch either one of us, but everything else you said there indicated you think it's one or the other. Can you explain that? If Seacore flips scum, what will your read on me be?

I find it more and more likely only one of you is scum. The thing is, I have no idea which one it is. Still, 50/50 change of lynching scum is better than random. If Seacore flips scum you're back to the null-read. If he flips town you're scum.

As for why the seacore wagon is as scary as it gets:

Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, Setael, Powerrox93

Reads on each of these, Krypt?

Pack: Leaning scum. Doesn't do what promises to do.
TS: Lurker, but pretty null. Needs to contribute stuff, hasn't done anything particularly scummy.
AV: Tunneler, pretty null. Doesn't tell what thinks about players he's not currently tunneling on, but at least contributes stuff.
Set: Either she or Sea is scum, would lynch.
Power: Town.

[Seacore]

I'm not sure how that works, Krypt

I mean, I think Set's scum. So if you lynch me, I want you to lynch her next regardless. But I don't think there's any proof that one of us must be scum. I'd like to know your case on that.

You think I might be scum. You think Set might be scum. Fine. But I would like to see your case in which both of us being wrong-town is an impossibility.

[Twistedspoon]

didn't powerox track set?
...
If set flips scum does that make powerox scummier or more townie?

[Seacore]

Neither.

Are you going to commit to any scum reads besides my RVS vote?

[Setael]

So OF COURSE he's tied to more player's, Setael is functionally a black hole when it comes to useful content. Each Setael post actively reduces the amount of information in the thread.

You saying this over and over does not make it true. Most my content has been about you and Seacore, so I'm not surprised you are trying to completely discount it, but it's just not possible. You say the Jedo wagon was so bad but I certainly disagree. To use your own logic, it was incredibly hard (impossible in the end) to get him lynched. Everyone who said they'd thought he was scum miraculously changed their minds (or never took a solid stand on their read on him at all like Seacore did) and his wagon stagnated for days. Your slot is scum and you can post 100 times that I haven't posted content and it won't convince anyone to ignore my posts. You quoted ONE post where I was looking at the switch from Jedo to power and yes there was more info than analysis in that post, but then to lump all my posts as content-free is totally inaccurate.

I'm not surprised you won't hammer Seacore even to prevent a no lynch, and I'm not surprised you're trying to get the lynch switched from sea to me, in spite of thinking he was SO scummy a few days ago. When he flips scum, I will no longer be the only one who sees that you are obviously buddies.

[Seacore]

Hear that? Everybody that doesn't want to vote for Jedo is scum. And everybody that did vote for Jedo, except for Set, is scum.

Glad we've got that nailed down.

[Doombunny9]

Are you going to commit to any scum reads besides my RVS vote?

This right here ^

Actually, I'd be happy to vote Sea/Set since TS is more vigbait anything else (Any vigs out there, you'd better get the picture)

Unvote, Vote: Set

seeing as how the people on the Sea wagon are overall scummy. (L-2 I think)

[Twistedspoon]

don'tcha think if there were a vig we'd have had more than one N1 kill

[LimMePls]

Vote Count 2.12

GreyICE (0)

-

Packbat (0)

-

kryptinen (0)

-

Doombunny9 (0)

-

Setael (4)

- GreyICE, Nachomamma8, Seacore, Doombunny9

Powerrox93 (0)

-

Seacore (5)

- Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, Setael, Powerrox93

LlamaFluff (0)

-

Nachomamma8 (0)

-

Twistedspoon (0)

-

AurorusVox (1)

- LlamaFluff

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- kryptinen

11 votes available, 6 votes needed for an arrest

1) All players are within the posting guidelines.

2) AV's V/LA is over after today. If he hasn't posted by Monday, I'll be sending a prod.

3) Powerrox's V/LA is over after tomorrow. If he hasn't posted by Tuesday I will send a prod.

Deadline is May 20, ~11 am EDT

[Setael]

Are you going to commit to any scum reads besides my RVS vote?

This right here ^

Actually, I'd be happy to vote Sea/Set since TS is more vigbait anything else (Any vigs out there, you'd better get the picture)

Unvote, Vote: Set

seeing as how the people on the Sea wagon are overall scummy. (L-2 I think)

That vote was scumtastic. Please provide your reasoning for your scum reads on Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, Powerrox93 and myself. You seriously think those players are scummier than Grey and Seacore?! This is ridiculous.

I'm calling a Doom/Grey/Seacore scum team.

[GreyICE]

I'm laughing at how fast your team is gonna bus you after that post

[Packbat]

This post is shameless prod-dodging, and I apologize for that - I'm about to leave for a concert now, but tomorrow or Monday I can try to skim the thread quickly looking for the obvious stuff. Obviously my post-by-post notes are not going to be finished by next week's deadline.

[AurorusVox]

Returned from holiday today. A very quick catchup post follows.

---

Maybe an example will make my point clearer. Say someone has a guilty result, outs it, and then gets NK'd the next night. Power here can't watch that player because he's restricted himself to ONLY his neighbours. That's perfect for a scum fakeclaim, isn't it?

A One-shot position mover flipped. PR is fairly close to confirmed town for me.

Can you explain this line of thinking?

Ehh. I hadn't thought about it like you had (interaction with Wicked). I had thought Wicked was purely for HIM, for him to talk to someone he wanted.

In your line of thinking, PR only works if he's fully outed...which also makes him pretty useless. Do I assume from this that you think he just messed up his claim by accident yesterday?

I take Kryp's failure to answer my questions to be a scumtell. Just look how long I had to pester him before I got a straight answer about his unvote.

I interpreted a lot of the trouble in you getting your answer to have to do with the language barrier. Do you disagree with that?

I wasn't aware that there was a language barrier issue. I thought my questions were straightforward enough...

There's also his pressure on you for hammering 46 minutes before the deadline (?), and the complete reversal of his Jedo read. It seems ISO's have changed so you can't see the drastic shift from P1 to P2, but if you read him you should see the way it completely disintegrates and turns into a null read, with him explicitly positioning himself against the wagon.

I was the one pushing the Jedo wagon the most adamantly, and I'm pretty sure that you never questioned me on that.

Can you point to where you were pressuring Jedo for his hammer specifically?

I am aware that I may be biased due to my frustrations at having to work so hard to get an answer yesterday.

I will never take your krypt case seriously until you go "okay, I think that krypt is scum and I'm pushing her lynch because of that", and not "oh well i might just be lynchin her cuz she didn't answer my questions yesterday LOL".

That's not what I'm saying though is it. I said I may be biased but everything combined convinces me that its more than that.

---

@AV: Your problem is that you only focus on a few players at a time and say nothing about other people, even if everyone else is talking about them. You could easily say you have a null read on someone and leave it at that, or say that you have not seen them do anything particularly scummy, like you just did. Why do I need to drag that out of you? Newsflash, the wagon on your scumbuddy is not going anywhere, even if you don't look at it.

You want me to be posting updated reads of every player in every single one of my posts? No. I'll post my cases on my top scumreads, and make notes of anything else as it occurs. You're selectively identifying this supposed tell in me when it's basically the same as everyone plays - that is, hardly anyone mentions everyone all the time in all their posts!

You say "drag" it out of me? I said precisely "like I just did" in the post that was a direct response to you ASKING me that question. And then 2 hours later I posted my read of more players. So STOP pretending you're "dragging" anything out when I answered promptly.

Which wagon are you referring to when you say I have a scumbuddy, that I'm ignoring?

(later)

AV: Tunneler, pretty null. Doesn't tell what thinks about players he's not currently tunneling on, but at least contributes stuff.

Misrep? Yep. I've not been tunnelling since early D1. Also, you had me as scum above. I haven't posted since - did you forget your reads, scum?

---

@Llama; can you quantify how hard Seacore was defending me (as opposed to, for example, just saying that he had a townread on me)?

Unvote; Vote: Setael

is a good vote (L-1).

I have a greater interest in a Set lynch than Seacore now due to some associations between Set and Krypt that make him more likely scum.

- Krypt saying "I'll vote for Seacore but not yet!" sounds like it could be scum trying to avoid hammering a mislynch.
- Krypt NOT voting for Setael when he could feasibly do so without being the hammer vote makes Set more likely a buddy than Seacore.
- Krypt has been accusing me of tunnelling but not Setael, being selective with his tells across different players.

[Doombunny9]

That vote was scumtastic.

Oh really now? Care to explain? This just looks like OMGUS to me which makes me even more sure of my vote.

Please provide your reasoning for your scum reads on Packbat, Twistedspoon, AurorusVox, Powerrox93 and myself.

Three of the five I've already done so you can just reread. Power I've talked about a bit yesterday and would be pretty scummy if I didn't believe his claim. AV hasn't been doing much scumhunting wise and has mainly been using other peoples cases and voting where everyone else is. Her vote on Power earlier today just seemed like she was trying to lynch the easy target despite what information there is. His Krypt case which he jumped onto when the Power one wasn't getting any speed was crap and consisted of mostly D1 stuff which he admitted could be from tunneling and "OMG you misrep!". When the Sea wagon grew he suddenly got a scumread on him and voted him with no real case other than what others have been saying. Even in his latest post he just jumps on the latest wagon gaining speed (See: Bussing) with no case other than "Setael is a good vote". Its also amazing how he forgot to mention that he'd prefer a Set lynch over a Sea lynch until this point.

Actually, AV is more scummy than I even remembered him as.

Anyway, I think it's claim time.

[AurorusVox]

Doom:

There is good reason for distrusting Powerrox, thanks to the awful nature of his claim AS I'VE EXPLAINED MULTIPLE TIMES and as you've consistently failed to engage with in any real way.

My Krypt case is based on his overall play, as should be patently obvious to anyone who reads my posts about him.

And reread my post on Setael - I do have a case for switching my vote, which rests on my scumread of Kyrpt. I'll be more explicit. Krypt's dancing around the Seacore and Set issue, considering their relative positions to a lynch, implicates Setael as a Krypt buddy and Seacore as a probable mislynch. Why would Krypt have Set and Seacore as equally good choices for a lynch, and then not vote either of them? He says he doesn't want to lynch Seacore because there's discussion going on - even if we accept that this is true, why then doesn't he vote Set? Because Krypt is scum and Set is his scumbuddy, and he doesn't want to put his buddy close to a lynch with other people willing to vote for him. If Seacore is scum, Krypt has a choice between the two of them - and he chooses neither - which still makes Set scum. As for why Seacore is a probable mislynch; if Seacore is scum, Krypt - who has explicitly voiced suspicion of him - could easily hammer for towncred. If they're both scum, one of his buddies are getting lynched anyway so he'd have no reason not to maximise his reward. But he didn't hammer, because there wouldn't be towncred for hammering a mislynch.

There's also the part about selective tells with his accusation of tunnelling, which you conveniently ignored -.^

As for the "amazing" part - I said in my last post before I went V/LA that Set and Seacore were EQUALLY scummy for doing the same thing; I can't have said Set makes a better lynch than Seacore until now because I didn't think it until I came back. Can you explain why that's scummy?

Not liking Doom's last post at all. Reads as trying to throw dirt for when his buddy flips scum. Plus, Setael has now outright called Doom scum. Seems like a little bit of safe distancing with no real legs to cause any damage to Doom.