Mini 1742: game over

[Taly]

Alright so page 1 starts off with a bang. There are a few innocent RVS remarks, and talah goes hard, presumably to spark discussion early, which prompts Wickan's vote.

As I've stated, I don't like Wickan's vote because while talah looks to be sparking discussion, Wickan seems to find sparking discussion scummy. He responded to my vote saying:

Scum isn't necessarily. I interpreted that post by Talah as being completely serious, and to the extent it was serious I found it to be trying to find information where there was pretty clearly none. It felt to me like making a mountain out of a molehill.

While I somewhat understand this mindset, it seems a bit weak.

The back and forward between talah and Frozen gives me a town on town vibe, but I'm not sure. Frozen is kind of all over the place and seems difficult to read. As of right now talah definitely feels like he is posting with the most pro-town mindset, actively looking to expose scum.

The thing that's the most interesting to me is how Wickan's wagon got going hard super fast, to L-1.

1)

Wickan's wagon NEVER reached L-1. It was at L-2. It's 6 to lynch. Good start off to showing us to how much attention you're paying.

Johnny's push makes total sense and I like his vote, but Taly and Frozen Angel hopped on SUPER fast.

2)

If you read 53 - then you would know that I had - in part - some of my own reasoning on jumping onto Wickan's wagon.

The way the wagon stormed ahead really feels like scum got opportunistic and hopped on, and it really looks like either Taly or Frozen.

3)

Oh look. Dichotomies. Since you want to say that one must be scum -

Look at the vote order: See mine coming first?

Taly's post 66 looks like scum realizing this and backing out before getting caught too soon.

Ow! And yet I'm voted anyway........ Darn. Must try harder next time.

But yeah, what about my unvote is being "realizing that I could get caught"?

4)

Tbh, I unvoted to avoid someone pushing the wagon to L-1. Apparently I'm scum for decelerating the wagon but it's super scummy of how much speed it obtained?

I don't understand what you think is scummy?

That combined with Frozen seeming more likely town than scum in the 1v1 with talah means Taly is probscum.

Unvote, vote Taly

.

More emphasis on the dichotomies -

Plus, half of this post is spent on talah, FA, and Wickan in the first 30 posts of the game.

You're emphasizing my posts the past 20 - not the posts I've made up until this point.

Furthermore, my vote on Wickan isn't exactly a surprise. I stated in 50 that I found RC and Wickan to be suspect but I wasn't entirely sure of which to pursue - I wanted RC to respond, and I looked back at Wickan's 39 to see if there was anything that I missed - since that was his second post so far in the game.

>>>>

I am not fond of Ice's catch-up post if that wasn't obvious. I would like for him to reply to my questions and assertions.

RC posted.... 70 does not look like scum-RC... It seems more thoughtful rather than pushing somewhere to get something.

Somewhat like someone else who is being FoSed in this game for being disorganized.

I feel like this could be referring to me?

[mykonian]

votecount

Wickan (3): ICEninja, JohnnyFarrar, Frozen Angel
Frozen Angel (1): talah
Taly (1): Titus
JohnnyFarrar (1): A Simple Plan
RadiantCowbells (1): Wickan
Titus (): RadiantCowbells

not voting (2): Albert B. Rampage, Taly

[Wickan]

In retrospect, 39 wasn't very pleasant either.

Wickan, why do you call out FA for covering up her issue with talah but then you vote on RC? I'm not getting a game-solve vibe from you?

Those are two separate issues. The former I found suspicious, the latter was a vote aimed at RC's weak jump in of "I think FA is town" without any further commentary or a shift in his vote. The two aren't related. I was expressing suspicion of FA, but greater suspicion of RC.

@Johnny: I'm not "twisting" RC's vote at all. RC's response to the whole talah-FA back and forth was to just jump in and say "I like FA for town atm <3"

and leave his vote there anyway.

Yes, I'm aware that that was an RVS vote, but the combination seemed both unhelpful and anti-town.

@talah: I interpreted the townread offer by Titus to be completely in jest

Are you referring to me or Titus...?

Sorry, yes, I meant yours to Titus. I'm getting my t-names mixed up (which is quite bad).

ICE: What surprises you about how my wagon formed? I actually think it seemed quite natural. I grant that the weirdest part was Taly's jumping off before I even responded, but I didn't find any of the actual votes unusual at all.

Taly's jump, however, does feel bad, as it removed a significant amount of pressure from me before I had even responded. Even if ICE's post had set off alarm bells, I would've expected him to just wait. That's unhelpful to town, but I'm not quite sure why it's scum.

[Wickan]

Thinking further: what is scum-Taly's motivation for jumping off of my wagon, especially without adding pressure to somebody else?

[Wickan]

^Sorry, this question was meant to be directed @ICE

[ICEninja]

I apologize for the large number of quotes. There were many small things that needed responding to.

Wickan's wagon NEVER reached L-1. It was at L-2. It's 6 to lynch. Good start off to showing us to how much attention you're paying.

You are correct, my miscount. There are 10 people in this game. Where is ABR?

If you read 53 - then you would know that I had - in part - some of my own reasoning on jumping onto Wickan's wagon.

This doesn't dispute the fact that the timing of your vote was opportunistic.

Oh look. Dichotomies. Since you want to say that one must be scum -

Dichotomies...are you sure you understand what that word means? You also twist my words pretty hard. Underlined for emphasis:

Since you want to say that

one must be

scum -

The way the wagon stormed ahead

really feels like

scum got opportunistic and hopped on

Definitely feels like you're trying to misrepresent my point here. I never said that one or the other has to be scum, and I never said only one of you could be scum. I was explaining my line of reasoning for voting you as opposed to the other person who could have potentially been the opportunistic scum to jump on a wagon.

Apparently I'm scum for decelerating the wagon but it's super scummy of how much speed it obtained?

Also responding to Wickan here

. It reads to me like you realized how fast this wagon formed on someone and removed your vote because keeping your vote there would make you look bad if he flips town (and if you're scum you probably know he would).

Actually another possible theory I just had. Based on this...

People with night talk will have 72 hours to get accustomed to another.

it looks like scum have 3 days of daytalk?

Mod, can you confirm that this means scum have 72 hours of day talk during D1?

With that in mind, it looks like these two could even be scum buddies with Wickan saying, via daytalk, "whoa dude don't bus me this early in the game I'm L-2". That explains the unvote just as well as Taly realizing the vote was dangerous to make as scum.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ok Wickan let's explore this unhelpful and anti-town behavior and why I should vote it.

Town Bells votes Frozen in RVS. Town Bells then sees a Frozen argument and says "Frozen looks town right thurr." Seemingly having forgotten where his vote is.

Scum Bells votes Frozen in RVS. Scum Bells then has to comment on an argument to appear like he cares about the game, but keeps his vote on Frozen for mysterious nefarious reasons.

See why I don't care? I don't particularly see the scum motivation and y'all are real mad about it.

[Wickan]

I mean, "mad" is an exaggeration. I'm not angry. I just think it's worthy of my vote.

RC

didn't

comment on the argument. That's the whole point. He got to look present and support somebody who most seem to agree is town without actually contributing anything.

[Wickan]

Also responding to Wickan here

. It reads to me like you realized how fast this wagon formed on someone and removed your vote because keeping your vote there would make you look bad if he flips town (and if you're scum you probably know he would).

This is assuming way too much, namely that I would actually be lynched. Did you think I was in significant danger of being lynched?

[JohnnyFarrar]

As of post 35 I don't think anyone had expressed thinking Frozen was town yet. Am I wrong?

[Wickan]

No, you're not. But I don't think it was unreasonable to anticipate.

[RadiantCowbells]

So your argument is that I anticipated that crowd mentality would swing in favour of FA, so I announced that I was townreading her and left my vote there?

You can't have that both ways man.

[Taly]

What am I reading...

I'm being called opportunistic for my jump on Wickan's wagon.

Now apparently - my unvote is weird, too?

I apologize for the large number of quotes. There were many small things that needed responding to.

Wickan's wagon NEVER reached L-1. It was at L-2. It's 6 to lynch. Good start off to showing us to how much attention you're paying.

You are correct, my miscount. There are 10 people in this game. Where is ABR?

I actually think if ABR is purposely lurking it could be a scum-tell... You know... given that the mod confirmed on the first post that mafia did have 72 hours of daytalk.

I doubt the most active people in this game are scum.

If you read 53 - then you would know that I had - in part - some of my own reasoning on jumping onto Wickan's wagon.

This doesn't dispute the fact that the timing of your vote was opportunistic.

And FA's wasn't? Because you did say that the speed of Wickan's wagon was fast given that FA and I voted.

Plus, did you not read my post links? I already stated before that I was considering the Wickan wagon - even before John prompted to put the vote there.

Oh look. Dichotomies. Since you want to say that one must be scum -

Dichotomies...are you sure you understand what that word means? You also twist my words pretty hard. Underlined for emphasis:

I'm detecting some condescension here and I'm not town-reading it.

If you're going to target my vote specifically and say that I'm scum versus looking at the entire argument - including the people you involved in your initial push (FA) - then don't dismiss what I'm trying to say as if I don't what I'm talking about because the basis of your push seem narrow-sided.

Since you want to say that

one must be

scum -

The way the wagon stormed ahead

really feels like

scum got opportunistic and hopped on

Definitely feels like you're trying to misrepresent my point here. I never said that one or the other has to be scum, and I never said only one of you could be scum. I was explaining my line of reasoning for voting you as opposed to the other person who could have potentially been the opportunistic scum to jump on a wagon.

Oh... So now you're referring back to that "scum" - not singularly saying that I'm probably scum versus FA who looked more town, right?

The way the wagon stormed ahead really feels like scum got opportunistic and hopped on, and it

really looks like either Taly

or

Frozen

That combined with

Frozen seeming more likely town than scum in the 1v1 with talah means Taly is probscum

.

Dichotomies in this context - means division. You said that I'm either - more likely scum than FA, or the scum itself.

If you're meaning that FA's vote too could have been scum - then why am I being referred to as being opportunistic when:

1)

My vote on Wickan wasn't random.

2)

It wasn't entirely sheeping.

3)

When I still asked questions to get a better stance of the situations even after my vote was placed?

Apparently I'm scum for decelerating the wagon but it's super scummy of how much speed it obtained?

Also responding to Wickan here

. It reads to me like you realized how fast this wagon formed on someone and removed your vote because keeping your vote there would make you look bad if he flips town (and if you're scum you probably know he would).

Actually another possible theory I just had. Based on this...

People with night talk will have 72 hours to get accustomed to another.

it looks like scum have 3 days of daytalk?

Mod, can you confirm that this means scum have 72 hours of day talk during D1?

With that in mind, it looks like these two could even be scum buddies with Wickan saying, via daytalk, "whoa dude don't bus me this early in the game I'm L-2". That explains the unvote just as well as Taly realizing the vote was dangerous to make as scum.

......................................................

Are you really going to associate me with the person whose wagon I hopped on

And then you're going to cast suspicion on them too?

As of post 35 I don't think anyone had expressed thinking Frozen was town yet. Am I wrong?

Tbh, I still hold a slight town lean on FA. But this is a volatile read.

I didn't really like their vote on Wickan; though I would want them to respond to some of the current posts right now. I get a vibe from them that spells out GENUINE. It's a gut read too, though.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean Wiccan's argument is inherently self contradictory.

He's simultaneously arguing that I left my vote there to assist in lynching/pressuring FA but that I also expressed a TR because I expected pressure to relent.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The organization of that post is weirding me out.

Who's this

Are you really going to associate me with the person whose wagon I hopped on

targeted at and if it's a response to the quote above it then why is there a line?

[Wickan]

So your argument is that I anticipated that crowd mentality would swing in favour of FA, so I announced that I was townreading her and left my vote there?

You can't have that both ways man.

I'm saying it's not unreasonable to read that talah vs. FA would be seen as town on town. I'm saying that you announced you were townreading her w/ no explanation to seem like you were providing content when in fact you were providing none.

I mean Wiccan's argument is inherently self contradictory.

He's simultaneously arguing that I left my vote there to assist in lynching/pressuring FA but that I also expressed a TR because I expected pressure to relent.

I mean, those two things aren't contradictory. You could've just hedged your bets. If we backed off of FA, you could always retreat to the "it was RVS" defense.

[Taly]

The organization of that post is weirding me out.

Who's this

Are you really going to associate me with the person whose wagon I hopped on

targeted at and if it's a response to the quote above it then why is there a line?

I'm referring to how Ice put up an associative scumtell between Wickan and I - even when I hopped on Wickan's wagon with reasoning.

Ice basically tossed suspicion on Wickan as he was saying that I am scum for my 'opportunistic' vote on him.

Also responding to Wickan here. It reads to me like you realized how fast this wagon formed on someone and removed your vote because keeping your vote there would make you look bad if he flips town (and if you're scum you probably know he would).

Actually another possible theory I just had. Based on this...

Mod wrote:
People with night talk will have 72 hours to get accustomed to another.

it looks like scum have 3 days of daytalk?
Mod, can you confirm that this means scum have 72 hours of day talk during D1?

With that in mind, it looks like these two could even be scum buddies with Wickan saying, via daytalk, "whoa dude don't bus me this early in the game I'm L-2". That explains the unvote just as well as Taly realizing the vote was dangerous to make as scum.

>

The more I think about this, it makes me wonder that it was fabricated.

The line

"............................................................."

Exemplifies my frustration.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, those two things aren't contradictory. You could've just hedged your bets. If we backed off of FA, you could always retreat to the "it was RVS" defense.

I can't possibly believe this is coming from town.

VOTE: Wiccan

[JohnnyFarrar]

I mean it looks like a conclusion driven by confirmation bias, you can't see town doing that?

[RadiantCowbells]

If town's going to confbias on me I'm perfectly happy ridding myself of them.

[JohnnyFarrar]

[ICEninja]

Did you think I was in significant danger of being lynched?

On page 3? Absolutely not. If the wagon had continued and you put to L-1 on page 8, without Taly having a good place to move his vote to? I can absolutely see that.

I'm being called opportunistic for my jump on Wickan's wagon.

Now apparently - my unvote is weird, too?

Yes. It looks like you felt you made a mistake with your vote, then unvoted.

I actually think if ABR is purposely lurking it could be a scum-tell

This is very possible. A quick check of his posts show that he hasn't posted in his other game(s) since Friday, and this game started yesterday. If he had posted elsewhere I would agree with you completely, but not posting anywhere on the site during a weekend is kind of null-ish IMO.

And FA's wasn't? Because you did say that the speed of Wickan's wagon was fast given that FA and I voted.

FA's was equally opportunistic. I gave reasoning why I find FA to be less likely scum than you, ergo I voted you. That being said, I really should do a onceover of her. Memo to self.

Plus, did you not read my post links? I already stated before that I was considering the Wickan wagon - even before John prompted to put the vote there.

Yet you stayed with your RVS vote until there was a wagon. Ergo, my accusation of opportunism.

Oh... So now you're referring back to that "scum" - not singularly saying that I'm probably scum versus FA who looked more town, right?

I can't vote both of you. I picked which fish to chase. Though as I said above, both of you merit some deeper investigation.

To be fair, I still am suspicious of Wickan. He was my original vote, after all, but Taly jumping on him made you seem more likely to be scum until I remembered that tidbit suggesting night talk. As I pointed out earlier, this could make total sense for them to be a scumpair, particularly regarding Wickan's subtle defense of Taly's unvote in 78.

The one nagging feeling I have about Taly right now is that he hasn't voted me. Scum Taly had ample opportunity to drop a safe vote on me during this whole argument but hasn't.

-------------

Regarding Wickan/RC/Titus, I read RC's townread of FA on page 2 as joking at first due to the heart, but after a re-read I feel like I probably shouldn't have based on his post 70 giving a reason for the FA townread. This gives Titus and Wickan more credibility, and means I might need to re-evaluate some of my reads.

I still feel like talah reads pro-town, and I like Johnny's aggression but I need to go through everything again when I have time with the mindset that RC was indeed voting a townread, which could impact my read of Wickan and Johnny both. Also need to spend more time analyzing Frozen Angel.

Damn this game needs to slow down a bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum!me religiously micromanages my posts to make sure I'm not doing anything scummy.
Town!me just posts shit.

Making an error like that should make me look more town, not less. Besides, what does scum!RC have to gain from leaving his vote on someone who is townreading me?

[Frozen Angel]

Damn this game needs to slow down a bit.

you want to calm down your partner ha?

@RC , its somehow not usual you. I think (with my little knowledge) you start a very angry wagon on someone at this stage of game ...

Taly I can't see a good reason to unvote before wiccon's answer. It seems you wanted to say he is scummy But you didn't want to pressure him (like he is your scum partner) ...

[Titus]

So your argument is that I anticipated that crowd mentality would swing in favour of FA, so I announced that I was townreading her and left my vote there?

You can't have that both ways man.

That's what you were doing when I voted you. Then you OMGUSed me.