Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Raya36]

Messed up the quote, oops

[Enchant]

He is acting most outrageous with votes on Lemons (literally #1, VOTEVOTEVOTE and then suddenly "oh wait nvm unvote i fear quickhammers")

[Flea The Magician]

I love how this is all progressing

I've actually got some decent reads come Page 4 for once.

---

Nowhere did I claim a solve, and nowhere have I said IL is a lockscum read.

Raya has made several frankly dangerous assumptions and is a bit all guns blazing in ILs defence which amuses me, SL.
T3's pointless half a moment sheep seems off, T3 I know is evasive in general but also usually more "Locked on". SL-. Would be SL but theres thought and evaluation going on there.

ILs responses have actually been legitimate and I'm happy with TL+ there.
Osuka weirdly gets a TL-.
Enchant also gets TL-.

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

VOTE: Raya for now.

[InsidiousLemons]

I get why y'all would find Flea's case unconvincing but I don't see how it's scummy at all.

i didn't think the case itself was scummy, mostly i wanted to put pressure on flea so he'd answer me about how he thought i could've gotten confused. which is why this sheep and subsequent retraction stands out so much to me:

VOTE: Flea
Strange fakesolve tbh

This just feels like a low-effort consensus vote.

VOTE: T3

Why "strange" eg as opposed to scummy?

It created discussion but idk if that was intentional.

Also raya is town.
UNVOTE: Flea
I guess a push like that doesn't make sense from scuflea but we shouldn't dismiss it.

it's early, but this is highly unusual for the town!T3 whom i've played with before. i rarely see him back down this easily or immediately, and he tends not to sheep other players so readily and for such little reason. last game i played with him, someone mentioned opportunism as one of T3's scumtells, so i'll be on the lookout for more of this.

Agreeing with Umlaut. It's such a weird take as scum. I feel like this kind of response could have been predicted so why even try pushing that

if you think you can predict how someone will react to something, isn't it usually best to confirm your suspicions? town doesn't care about looking like they made a scummy push (at least not unless they're in real danger of becoming a miselim), so as a way to start discussion rolling it's not a bad idea. in my experience, standing back with your hands on your hips rather than answering questions as flea does in 77 can sometimes come from scum, but he doesn't seem to have really believed much in his push and was more using it as a reaction test. considering it got us out of RVS unprecedentedly early, which is usually not something scum actively tries to do, i'm comfortable with a slight townlean here.

VOTE: T3

flea, what is it from osuka that gives you a slight townlean? i find him incredibly difficult to read especially so early in the game, so i'm curious what you're seeing here, no matter how insubstantial.

[Korina]

Spoiler: no vc, have a dog

[Flea The Magician]

i didn't think the case itself was scummy, mostly i wanted to put pressure on flea so

fae'd

answer me about how

fae

thought i could've gotten confused. which is why this sheep and subsequent retraction stands out so much to me:

ftfy

It's pride/wrath month, I am cranky, I am not sorry.

---

I still want to know why you jumped to replacement in every solution and persistently after.

[Raya36]

He is acting most outrageous with votes on Lemons (literally #1, VOTEVOTEVOTE and then suddenly "oh wait nvm unvote i fear quickhammers")

I can see where you're coming from but why do you think someone unvoting at E-1 is more likely to come from soft-bussing scum than town concerned about a quick-elim?

[Raya36]

Raya has made several frankly dangerous assumptions and is a bit all guns blazing in ILs defence which amuses me, SL.

What assumptions are you referring to?

[Raya36]

if you think you can predict how someone will react to something, isn't it usually best to confirm your suspicions? town doesn't care about looking like they made a scummy push (at least not unless they're in real danger of becoming a miselim), so as a way to start discussion rolling it's not a bad idea. in my experience, standing back with your hands on your hips rather than answering questions as flea does in 77 can sometimes come from scum, but he doesn't seem to have really believed much in his push and was more using it as a reaction test. considering it got us out of RVS unprecedentedly early, which is usually not something scum actively tries to do, i'm comfortable with a slight townlean here.

What I'm trying to say is that scum!Flea could've probably predicted that pushing someone for a role pm confirmation based reason would get fae voted. Generally pushing something that's a stretch is avoided by scum for this reason. So we're agreeing here. Flea is more likely town for this.

[Flea The Magician]

You think Lemons is scum for not responding to their pm right away, right? But you also said it's scum indicative for that to result in a replace out, which is clearly not the case here.

Flea, this is a really weird thing to push Lemon's for

You even seem to be implying Lemon's is town for it?

You've looked at things I've said, tried reading between the lines, found nothing and inserted narrative from Lemons or yourself, I'm unsure which.

It's rare reading between the lines is works with me, even if you're looking for crumbs they can be hard to track down if you're going for that approach.

[Raya36]

I meant it to be asking you if that's what you were saying because I was (and kinda still am) confused on the case

[Flea The Magician]

The case was, delayed confirmation despite have a read role PM.
Scummy because most of the roles are common on MS, and cults aren't often seen. So possibility of asking for confirmation about cult mechanics.

It's a shitty ass case for D1, and it was an RVS breaker. It did it's job, I got some reads, there's been discussion, and some still on going.
Assumptions I saw weren't all from you, you go back to SL- but my vote is staying on you.

Eugh I need to find what I saw before because there was a thing that pinged and it wasn't you...

flea, what is it from osuka that gives you a slight townlean? i find him incredibly difficult to read especially so early in the game, so i'm curious what you're seeing here, no matter how insubstantial.

I should answer this too.

Osaka seems to be engaging and poking their own things without pulling focus from the main show at the time. For me scum would be happy to sit back at this point.

[Enchant]

He is acting most outrageous with votes on Lemons (literally #1, VOTEVOTEVOTE and then suddenly "oh wait nvm unvote i fear quickhammers")

I can see where you're coming from but why do you think someone unvoting at E-1 is more likely to come from soft-bussing scum than town concerned about a quick-elim?

It would be great if he though he is town, but it's not like that.

Maybe we have different minds, but why i should even care to save someone i vote if i think he is

mafia

cult.

[Flea The Magician]

damnit I can't find it -.-; wtaf...
My reads stand, I have early gut suspicions on Enchant too but mostly because I've seen their scumgame and it scares me.

[Enchant]

Fun fact: I get scum more often than town.

[InsidiousLemons]

i didn't think the case itself was scummy, mostly i wanted to put pressure on flea so

fae'd

answer me about how

fae

thought i could've gotten confused. which is why this sheep and subsequent retraction stands out so much to me:

ftfy

It's pride/wrath month, I am cranky, I am not sorry.

---

I still want to know why you jumped to replacement in every solution and persistently after.

mea culpa! thank you for the correction, happy pride month!

i've already explained why replacement was on my mind. it's the only reasoning i've ever seen anyone use for the type of push you made. and where did i persist on replacement? 40 was an explanation of the assumption, not me claiming i didn't believe you

[InsidiousLemons]

an explanation of the line of questioning, rather.

[Flea The Magician]

fair, sorry, brains glitching out between late night and day time... I suspect internal shenanigans.

[Major Minor]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

[Raya36]

He is acting most outrageous with votes on Lemons (literally #1, VOTEVOTEVOTE and then suddenly "oh wait nvm unvote i fear quickhammers")

I can see where you're coming from but why do you think someone unvoting at E-1 is more likely to come from soft-bussing scum than town concerned about a quick-elim?

It would be great if he though he is town, but it's not like that.

Maybe we have different minds, but why i should even care to save someone i vote if i think he is

mafia

cult.

Not everyone votes in the mindset that person is absolutely scum. I was on Lemons too and unvoted when they were brought to E-1.

[T3]

I get why y'all would find Flea's case unconvincing but I don't see how it's scummy at all.

i didn't think the case itself was scummy, mostly i wanted to put pressure on flea so he'd answer me about how he thought i could've gotten confused. which is why this sheep and subsequent retraction stands out so much to me:

VOTE: Flea
Strange fakesolve tbh

This just feels like a low-effort consensus vote.

VOTE: T3

Why "strange" eg as opposed to scummy?

It created discussion but idk if that was intentional.

Also raya is town.
UNVOTE: Flea
I guess a push like that doesn't make sense from scuflea but we shouldn't dismiss it.

it's early, but this is highly unusual for the town!T3 whom i've played with before. i rarely see him back down this easily or immediately, and he tends not to sheep other players so readily and for such little reason. last game i played with him, someone mentioned opportunism as one of T3's scumtells, so i'll be on the lookout for more of this.

Agreeing with Umlaut. It's such a weird take as scum. I feel like this kind of response could have been predicted so why even try pushing that

if you think you can predict how someone will react to something, isn't it usually best to confirm your suspicions? town doesn't care about looking like they made a scummy push (at least not unless they're in real danger of becoming a miselim), so as a way to start discussion rolling it's not a bad idea. in my experience, standing back with your hands on your hips rather than answering questions as flea does in 77 can sometimes come from scum, but he doesn't seem to have really believed much in his push and was more using it as a reaction test. considering it got us out of RVS unprecedentedly early, which is usually not something scum actively tries to do, i'm comfortable with a slight townlean here.

VOTE: T3

flea, what is it from osuka that gives you a slight townlean? i find him incredibly difficult to read especially so early in the game, so i'm curious what you're seeing here, no matter how insubstantial.

I think your meta case is cherry picking - you can read newbie 2061 where I was scumrea dby skitter for exactly this. I was town.

[Enchant]

He is acting most outrageous with votes on Lemons (literally #1, VOTEVOTEVOTE and then suddenly "oh wait nvm unvote i fear quickhammers")

I can see where you're coming from but why do you think someone unvoting at E-1 is more likely to come from soft-bussing scum than town concerned about a quick-elim?

It would be great if he though he is town, but it's not like that.

Maybe we have different minds, but why i should even care to save someone i vote if i think he is

mafia

cult.

Not everyone votes in the mindset that person is absolutely scum. I was on Lemons too and unvoted when they were brought to E-1.

Can't argue with that.

See me being right by accident.

[InsidiousLemons]

T3, i just had a peek at 2061 and skitter replaced out before ever posting. is it possible you meant to reference another game? your play there doesn't seem to match this one at all.

[Marky Mark]

@T3 what made you turn 180 on your vote on Flea in such a short space of time? Feel free to also answer the (related) question I posed earlier ref why "strange" as a choice of description.

[Marky Mark]

Lemons can have townpoints for caring about the solve enough to check up on meta. Scum can do this too, but in my experience its a towny thing more often than not.